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#1
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Brian
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/03/06/news.excerpt/index.html |
#2
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Absolutely disgusting. |
#3
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
Does anyone else find it disturbing that the major sources of the books info is from secret grand jury testimony, supposedly sealed files and other sources that are not supposed to be revealed to anyone outside the ongoing investigation? I don't care one way or the other if he used anything or ot. I am worried about less than legitimate way this all being brought to light. |
#4
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: warshawlaw
If the consensus is that he has been using illegal drugs and/or illegally using prescription drugs for the last several years and has been lying about it, I would support his being placed on the ineligible list for the HOF. |
#5
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
Hal, practiacally every player cheats in one way or another, so the point is moot. Persoanlly, I think Leon should delete this thread since these Bonds threads never produce anything productive. |
#6
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: barrysloate
Next year Mark McGwire becomes eligible for the Hall. He will be the test case for all future cheaters. Problem with Bonds is his stats may be too overwhelming to keep him out. I think we are treading into unchartered waters here. |
#7
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: leon
O/T's are permitted by board participants. Brian is one and doesn't start too many o/t's.....rules are the same for everyone....carry on.... |
#8
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Oh no, do you mean that character make over where he dressed up like Paula Abdul is going to be forgotten and now we're going to hear Barry defend himself and tell us how much the press is out to get him and how baseball isn't fun anymore... we'll see what happens next week. |
#9
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: martin dalziel
Jay, I agree - its very disturbing that the majority of this information is likely from material that should not be accessable. There is the comment at the end of the article that suggests that material was sealed but now is not - that doesn't make sense to me, but it doesn't change the fact that information put into the public domain that is not based on records available to the public should be questioned as to its validity. |
#10
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
As a criminal defense attorney, I can tell you that supposedly sealed grand jury testimony is constantly leaked to the media by prosecutors looking for an edge in the court of public opinion. That Bonds is the victim of possibly leaked grand jury testimony - a crime itself - does not cause me to shed a tear for him. I think if Bonds really cared about clearing his name he'd take a polygraph test administered by either a law enforcement polygraph specialist or otherwise universally recognized examiner, instead of dressing up like Paula Abdul and appearing to have some human qualities for the first day in his life. Jay, what you say about cheating and baseball being intertwined I cannot disagree with. However, every generation has its own social mores to be followed and clearly this generation doesn't like cheaters in baseball. It's the reason that Sammy Sosa was basically kicked out of baseball along with Raffy. And why McGwire is universally ignored. |
#11
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: fkw
He is a man who hits a baseball with a wooden bat like all before him has. It may have been an advantage it may not have. The guy is still hitting HRs every 7-8 times up, even at 42.... Why because he is that good. The records will stand. Everyone has cheated/had advantages in baseball in some form for 140 years. |
#12
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: John Kal
It's such a joke. Open your eyes and look at him!!! |
#13
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Cy
Let's face it. If any sport not only condones cheating but endorses, it’s baseball. If you look at |
#14
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: T206Collector
...people are so concerned is because Bonds holds the single-season record for HR in a season, and is vying for the career mark this year. It is the single most recognizable individual achievement in professional sports in this country. They are the Ruth records. Also known as the Aaron records more recently. No records are more sacred. That is why this topic generates so much controversy. If you had evidence that Ruth, Maris and Aaron were doping to improve their performance, then it would be quite controversial even today. If McGwire still had the single-season record, his testimony before Congress (or lack thereof) would have been much more consequential. |
#15
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: cmoking
"It's the reason that Sammy Sosa was basically kicked out of baseball" |
#16
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: whycough
(like me) to have seen Hank, Mickey, Ted, Willie, Joe. Then you would understand. |
#17
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Cat
Just watch ESPN Classic and you will realize how rampant the problem is...even in the mid 80's the players look frail as compared to the last few years. |
#18
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
I would like to hear one shred of evidence "Cy" has in support of the claim that Roger Clemens or Curt Schilling are steroid users. |
#19
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: warshawlaw
1. These topics are fun; not everything can be about cardboard, nor should it. A little human interest and current events from time to time is good for the vitality of the board. |
#20
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Scott Gross
Shrinkage of testicles |
#21
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Cy
Peter, |
#22
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: warshawlaw
Severe mood swings |
#23
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
he definitely showed a lot of steroid rage in his pitching days (as compared to recent times). |
#24
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: DJ
The truth of the matter is the game's integrity is in place. The baseball that was played from the late eighties to the beginning of this century is not the same game that was played during Roger Maris' time. In every logical debate, there is that one person that is simply fights for the other side and looks for a good debate. |
#25
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Ryan Christoff
Cy, |
#26
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: dennis
roger clemens is pitching for the USA team in the world baseball classic. the drug testing is the same as in the olyimpics. i must then conclude he and his teammates are clean.FACT is players today are bigger than 20 years ago. ball players did not lift weights years ago. they do lift weights today. weight training is year round for almost all pro athletes. they are much bigger. |
#27
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Cat
Players were working out in the 80s. Many were committed to baseball 12 months per year. They weren't lifting as many weights because they couldn't. The recovery time for weight lifting is lengthy...roughly 48 to 60 hours. It used to be counterproductive to lift weights in season and play ball six days per week. Now with steroids, the recovery time is much quicker and allows players to lift 12 months per year. |
#28
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Cy, I'm not trying to join in on the point - counter point to what you said but... |
#29
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
My recollection is that Clemens just threw the bat sort of contemptuously/disgustedly, but not AT Piazza. |
#30
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
I used to think Clemens was on the juice due to his increased size and longevity. I don't think it anymore. Why on earth would the guy knowingly go into international play with the drug testing? If he was no longer on 'roids he would just embarrass himself - and this is not a guy who enjoys embarrassing himself. As for Bonds, the point made previously that the HR record is the most hallowed in all professional sports is the right one. That's why people hate him so much: he's stomping on all that is holy to us crazed baseball fanatics. Sure lots of guys cheated: but none on such an important issue as the HR record. |
#31
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
Did you see the other day when he was throwing a practice game or maybe it was batting practice against the Astros minor leaguers, his kid takes him deep on the first pitch, next time up he knocks him down, and when asked about it he says "I was just showing him the ball from a different perspective." Hysterical. |
#32
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: warshawlaw
This last weekend I was umpiring a coach pitch game when a dad totally lost control of his pitches. The first one was high and outside, the next one was low and inside, the next two after that were behind the kid and the 5th one hit the kid. He (the dad) was so embarrassed he quit and had to be relieved. I was struggling not to laugh. |
#33
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: whycough
Go to www.bostondirtdogs.com for some pictures of the Sultan of Shots. |
#34
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Mark Rios
Bonds is always a firm reminder of why we have abortions... |
#35
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: J Levine
I hope he makes the Hall of Fame. I hope he tells the truth. I hope he makes millions. As long as he is held responsible for his actions. If the steroids he took (if he actually took them) were illegal at the time then he should be punished. |
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth
Bonds is always a firm reminder of why we have abortions... |
#37
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
Hmmmm...Clemens is lauded for his rigorous workour regimine and is said to be proof that he is not on the juice. Yet this same exact reason is cited as why Bonds is juicing so that he can maintain his manical workout schedule. Which one is it? People also cite all the physical changes to Bonds as proof that he using, yet these same people say it's just natural aging when they talk about Clemens. |
#38
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: rob
Is it any wonder that's he's retiring now? He hit the most vicious line drive single to a 3rd baseman I had ever seen in my life, anyone else would have had a line drive out. Sosa had terrible acne as a side effect, something which I've seen referred to once, and not mentioning Sosa by name. |
#39
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: rp60
I disagree that race is a factor with Bonds, in this instance. People are responding to the alligations, his career numbers, and his personality, and not the fact he is a black man..Its not a 'given' that it is a factor. At least not to me... |
#40
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Chris Mc
I wasn't going to put my two cents in but upon reading the article feel a need to vent a little. What has happened is a wrong. There are many wrongs in sports that are or have been tolerated. Wife beaters, drug addicts, tax cheats and many other "kinds" of criminals. The biggest point and I don't think it was mentioned is what kind of message is it sending to the kids. Hey , as long as you are good at the sport you play it doesn't matter what you do so long as you don't get caught. It's the wrong message and I think professional athletes should adhere to higher standards. |
#41
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: rp60
Heres to innocence lost through Baseball..Thats why it is the greatest of all games.. |
#42
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: John Kal
Steve Somers, "The Schmoozer," on WFAN last night (NY sports radio) while talking about Bonds. |
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: identify7
There is no innocence in baseball, and there never was. |
#44
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: rp60
The innocense lost that I speak of in not in Baseball. Rather it is in the realization of lifes lessons through Baseball..And, for what its worth, Bonds, I believe is the finest hitter of his generation. |
#45
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Jay, before you start playing the race card you might want to address one small issue that may be the reason why society and the press are tougher on Bonds than Clemens: a) Bonds has admitted to unknowingly taking a topical steroid, and b) a book just came out detailing on an hour by hour basis, culled from witness statements, tapes, documents, etc., Bonds's steroid use. Nothing of the sort exists with regard to Clemens. Small, niggling point, I agree, but I'm sure Whitey and The Man would probably think it's significant. |
#46
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: ChuckkieB
I would just like to point out that Mark McGwire, who was at one point, one of the most beloved players in MLB over the lst 25 years, who is white, by the way, was dragged through the mud worse than any athlete that I can remember.....based on a lot less "proof" than the dirt piling up on Bonds, mind you......so this notion that Bonds is target because he's black and Clemens isn't because he's white is ludicrous to me. Bonds is a target because he's chasing the most coveted record in sports and his personal trainer and other associates have either been indicted or liked to the BALCO steriods scandal. THAT, in total, is why he is "being targeterd." The fact that he happens to have one of the most surly, mean, egotistical, and unfriendly personalities of anyone ever to be in the public eye doesn't help much either. Just my two cents. |
#47
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: peter ullman
I agree 100% with Chuck! |
#48
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
This is actually good because now Bonds can SUE these tabloids (S.I., et al) for making all of these false allegations. Now Barry can have his day in court and have all of these sports rags (like S.I.) print the retraction to the lies that they are propagating about him. America is a great country!!! |
#49
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: warshawlaw
Let's see the libel suit...and while we're at it maybe a flying monkey can steal Barry's dog... |
#50
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Cat
Aside from race, don't lose sight of Jay's point that many aspects of Bonds and Clemens career are extremely close parallels...1) physical/bodily changes, 2) an extraordinary ability to maintain a rigorous workout regiment well into 40's, and 3) high level performance well into their 40s. Some of you like to say "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..." |
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