Bouton - Ball Four

[ejstel]

As a collector of 1969 topps and listening to Ball Four by Jim Bouton for the first time...it has made the 1969 (and 70) topps sets much more real to me.

While he has flashbacks to his Yankee days the story focuses on his attempt to hang on to his career (as well as several others starting/finishing) with the 1969 Seattle Pilots.

Also not sure why topps didn't print a 69, 70 or 71 Bouton?... appeared in 73 games in '69

Best,
Ed

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[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by ejstel

Also not sure why topps didn't print a 69, 70 or 71 Bouton?... appeared in 73 games in '69

After looking at his stats 69 and 71 are understandable but no 70 card is puzzling, maybe the late season trade to Houston had something to do with it.

[Tere1071]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

After looking at his stats 69 and 71 are understandable but no 70 card is puzzling, maybe the late season trade to Houston had something to do with it.

Bouton retired in mid-season of 1970 to become a sportscaster for ABC in New York. It's chronicled in his follow-up to "Ball Four," "I'm Glad You Didn't Take It Personally." As for the lack of a card for 1969 and 1970, maybe Topps couldn't get Bouton to sign.

I still have the hardcover edition that my grandfather purchased for me back in 1974 and it remains one of my favorite treasures. Sister Mary Immaculate, the 8th-grade teacher/ school principal once grabbed it out of my hand to see if I was reading something inappropriate as I held my breath. She looked at the pictures and handed it back to me.

Phil aka Tere1071

Upgrading my 1953 Bowman Color, and Topps Baseball sets for 1971, 1972, 1974, and 1975.

Still needing to complete my 1970 and 1973 Topps Baseball sets.

[mortimer brewster]

Originally Posted by ejstel

As a collector of 1969 topps and listening to Ball Four by Jim Bouton for the first time...it has made the 1969 (and 70) topps sets much more real to me.

While he has flashbacks to his Yankee days the story focuses on his attempt to hang on to his career (as well as several others starting/finishing) with the 1969 Seattle Pilots.

Also not sure why topps didn't print a 69, 70 or 71 Bouton?... appeared in 73 games in '69

Best,
Ed

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Ball Four caused quite the controversy back in 1969. Many Major Leaguer's were upset with him. Tame by today's standards. Topps may have erred on the side of caution by not printing his card in 1970.

[ejstel]

Thank you for the feedback....so many names in Ball Four just make 1969 & 70 Topps come to life...I'm also thinking to share with my son who plays travel baseball...all the nuance shared of making teams, on the fringe, personalities (coaches, players, admin)....so much perspective shared in the book.

I'm Glad You Didn't Take It Personally= wow...thank you so much for sharing...never knew it existed...today is a great day....I will search for it now.

Best,
Ed

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[Gr8Beldini]

Originally Posted by ejstel

I'm Glad You Didn't Take It Personally= wow...thank you so much for sharing...never knew it existed...

Not a great book, Bouton just defends himself throughout the book... pretty boring actually... however Bouton talking about how Doug Rader used to torment Jesus Alou is funny as hell... particularly the birthday cake story.

[Mark17]

Bouton wrote Ball Four in 1969 and it came out in 1970. It was hugely controversial, and it exposed some of the players cheating on their wives, and so on. He must've put up with a lot of abuse in 1970, especially on the road. Last year I won Jim's 1970 road jersey in a LOTG auction. I think it is so cool, thinking of Jim putting that shirt on, facing players on his, and opposing teams, and wondering what all was going on in his intelligent, creative mind. Jim took this shirt with him when he left the Houston clubhouse, gave it to a friend, and from there it went to me. Of all my gamers, this one has the best back story, and is therefore the most interesting to me.

By the way, he also wrote a book "I managed Good but Boy Did They Play Bad" too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bouton was ostracized, and maybe Topps did the same. One of the great moments after the book came out was Pete Rose screaming Fuck You Shakespeare at him.

[mortimer brewster]

In Spring training 1979, nearly 10 years after Ball Four was published, Bouton tried to interview Thurman Munson at spring training. To put it nicely, the interview attempt did not go well. I remember seeing the video clip on the nightly news.

[Kutcher55]

I liked the book quite a bit. I read it around 30 years ago. The stuff about him negotiating his contract in the reserve clause era was very entertaining.

[Tere1071]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Bouton wrote Ball Four in 1969 and it came out in 1970. It was hugely controversial, and it exposed some of the players cheating on their wives, and so on. He must've put up with a lot of abuse in 1970, especially on the road. Last year I won Jim's 1970 road jersey in a LOTG auction. I think it is so cool, thinking of Jim putting that shirt on, facing players on his, and opposing teams, and wondering what all was going on in his intelligent, creative mind. Jim took this shirt with him when he left the Houston clubhouse, gave it to a friend, and from there it went to me. Of all my gamers, this one has the best back story, and is therefore the most interesting to me.

By the way, he also wrote a book "I managed Good but Boy Did They Play Bad" too.

I've seen two other Bouton jerseys. The first one was at a show in the Los Angeles area around 1988 or 89. I remember skipping work that Friday to attend. A seller had a 1963 Yankee home jersey that belonged to Bouton. What I remembered most was the asking price of $650, and that it had a dirt stain on the middle front. Unfortunately, I had already spent half of his asking price on cards and I couldn't purchase it.

At the 1991 National Convention held in Anaheim, a slew of restored 1969 Seattle Pilots home jerseys was being sold, including Bouton's. As you probably know the Seattle Pilots became the Milwaukee Brewers one week before the start of the 1970 season. The trunks of the 1969 Pilots jerseys were stripped to convert them into Brewers jerseys. Well, when the jerseys were found they were converted back to the Seattle Pilots using replicas of the front stitching. They looked almost like 1969 once again, but there were slight variations on the baseball logo that distinguished them from the true originals. I have seen three originals, including a player's jersey with the 100th Anniversary patch. The collector also had the restored version where I saw the slight differences. Next, another collector had a Batboy's home jersey and a pair of Joe Schultz's pants which he had found at an antique swap meet.

Going back to the Pilots Bouton jersey, it was the most expensive of the group (a low four-figured price). It had already sold, but the seller had it displayed in his booth for display. I have the book, which is more important to me.

Phil aka Tere1071

[Gr8Beldini]

Pretty cool shot of manager Joe Schultz in the background of Jerry McNertney's 1970 T card... FYI

[ejstel]

As I went to look for a 1970 Topps McNertney/Schultz combo autograph card.....

.....I saw the 1973 Billy Martin with Topps never listing Schultz's name...interesting that of all prople it is Schultz?...

....also sharing a signed 1969 with a lot of signature area real estate...seems like a funny guy to sign it where he did.

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[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by ejstel

As I went to look for a 1970 Topps McNertney/Schultz combo autograph card.....

.....I saw the 1973 Billy Martin with Topps never listing Schultz's name...interesting that of all prople it is Schultz?...

....also sharing a signed 1969 with a lot of signature area real estate...seems like a funny guy to sign it where he did.

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"Pound some Budweiser"

[MantleMarisFordBerra]

Great book. As far as him missing cards in certain years, remember in the book he talks about how important the union was and how the players received double their normal compensation. He then adds a line sarcastically saying “I’m sure it was from the goodness of their hearts”. So who knows, maybe there was in fact some bad blood between Bouton and Topps.

In regards to how other players are depicted in the book, I must confess it forever altered my impression of Frank Crosseti and not in a good way. Bouton made him out to be a high pitched kiss ass.

And finally, not too many folks know Bouton was involved with inventing Big League Chew bubble gum!

[ejstel]

Thanks...for all the feedback...the book started off 'slow' and within boundaries...I was even thinking (at that time to suggest to my son as a 15y/o travel bb player)....I am now about 3/4 through the book and it has full gone off the rails. No sharing with my son.

I like it though..he was a "thinker"... cracks me up as he keeps repeating...I think Comer doesn't like me...every time I am around him Comer says...get him the f away from me.....and Comer didn't even know he was writing a first of its kind book


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[mortimer brewster]

Does anybody remember the "Ball Four" tV series that aired on CBS in the mid 1970's. It starred Bouton and only lasted a few episodes.

I vaguely remember watching an episode on a Saturday afternoon, probably after it was cancelled.

[Tere1071]

I do, I saw every episode in its brief prime time scheduling. No, it wasn't very good, but it was Jim Bouton, and at least he received some extra exposure; hopefully, it got others interested in buying the book. Ben Davidson was also in the cast.

Ejstel, as for your son, my grandfather gave me a copy when I was 12 years old. He had found it in a thrift store and he saw a baseball on the slipcover and gave it to me; he had no idea what it contained (nor did I until I read it for the first time.) Though I didn't get all of its "nuances" at the time it was enough to warp my mind. At what age would you recommend your son to read "Ball Four?"

Enjoy!

Phil aka Tere1071

[Tere1071]

Originally Posted by Gr8Beldini

Not a great book, Bouton just defends himself throughout the book... pretty boring actually... however Bouton talking about how Doug Rader used to torment Jesus Alou is funny as hell... particularly the birthday cake story.

According to the story, Jesus had a rather weak stomach. The book pales in comparison to "Ball Four," but I did like the ending section where Bouton shared some of the feedback he had received. The one that struck me was the father who blamed Johnny Antonelli for his son's "problems" for not giving him an autograph.

Phil aka Tere1071

[Jim65]

I saw Bouton pitch in the old NJ Met League a few times, he was a nice guy and would alway sign autographs after games.