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#1
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
For some time now I've thought that paying someone else to tell me the grade of my own card was nuts. The idea of that is fundamentally wrong, to me. I understand that lots of folks here like it, some love it... |
#2
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Al C.risafulli
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#3
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Josh Adams
" not only pay someone else to tell them the grade of their card" |
#4
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Jay
Frank--I know that some of your post is tongue in cheek but it may not be that far off. The formation of a fund that invests some portion of its proceeds in sportscards is basically what you have described. The fund buys cards that it deems to have a high likelihood of appreciation. It would undoubtedly only buy graded cards and it would help to have an independent third party to provide valuations. Not only is this possible but I bet we see it in the not too distant future. However, this has nothing to do with collecting. |
#5
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Jeff Prizner
You don't like slabbed cards Frank? Wow, you learn something new every day. |
#6
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
The truth is that I'm glad some folks collect graded cards. I can get a few graded and sell them for much more than they would have sold for otherwise... more card-buying money for me. So please do keep collecting them. |
#7
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Brett
I kind of feel the same way. I don't understand why I should have to pay someome at PSA or SGC to tell me that my creased to hell card is in poor shape lol. Well, its different for me, because I mainly just collect cards. I'm not in it to make a quick buck because I actually like the cards i'm buying and not too worried about an investment. I just sold some cards on the BST to get rid of them, because i've decided to stop collecting a few sets and hope to get my money back on them. Although, if I can make a little money, theres no harm in it. For people who are in this business to make money, grading cards is the way to go. I'm not too fond of the grading companies just because of the inconsistencies in the grades and also because cards are getting graded when they look to be trimmed and cards that are restored are getting graded... really high. Also, just because 1 guy at PSA says my card is PSA 4, doesn't mean its right. Its just 1 guys opinion right ? I might crack it out and send it off to get graded again and it might come back a PSA 5. In the future, they should get some high tech computer to scan the card to find out it its been restored, if its the proper size and so forth and give it a proper grade. Also, if I drop a card thats been graded on the floor, the case might break and mess up the card. I like the top loaders with the penny sleeves. If I drop it on the floor, the card is fine I;m not trying to bash grading companies, like I said, i'm not in it for make money, so grading isn't my thing. If theres alot of typos its because i'm tired and i'm going to bed lol. |
#8
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Larry
Jay, I think there was an investment market for cards a few years ago, but can't remember the name of it. You would pay for the current market value of a PSA graded card and they would hold it in your stock portfolio. I forget the name now. They had a website. Might be out of business now? |
#9
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Dylan
If your statement is people should be more reliant on themselves instead of others, I can agree with that. I spent time to read on and study grading so that I could accuratly assess cards for sale. I also track auction data myself, without paying someone 10 dollars a month to do it for me. On the other hand much of the business done is over the internet thereby making 3rd party grading preferable to many buyers. I'm only able to see a scan(often times small and out of focus scans!) not hold the card and inspect it with my 30x loop. And considering cards are then sent through the mail system, i feel better about a card being in a slab(except some of psa's) then in what some sellers decide to ship their cards in. |
#10
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: David Smith
Uh, Frank, you left out the automatic withdrawal from your checking or savings account to pay the fees. |
#11
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: John
Frank, |
#12
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: dennis
i think it's just hard for some people,who collected when there were no slabbers,to understand why people would only buy graded cards. they wonder. does this mean that these people would not have collected 20 years ago when the slab did not exist? why spend more $ on a graded card,when you can buy one raw and then have it graded? don't people like to hold a card w/o a holder as it was meant to be? don't cards look great in plastic pages in binders? think of all the money spent on slabs that could be used to buy more cards? it's a different world now. people don't buy albums or cd's they download their music. people play video games not board games. email? there are debit cards instead of checks? and some folks don't even have a land-line phone. wow,everybody has tatoos!(not just pirates and sailors?) for those of you who collect graded cards don't be offended by us dinosaurs set in our ways.just ignor us,there are things that can't be explained. |
#13
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Dylan
I often like to buy raw cards. But buying raw cards doesnt work out if you want high grade examples these days. Before slabs im sure you could track down NM T206's and E cards but i almost never even see NM or better T206's for sale in raw form. Now I suppose you could bust it out of the slab but if you ever need to resell its bad news. After buying some Tobacco and candy cards in sgc holders and displaying them next to eachother i think they look awesome. A lot better then screwdowns. Plus there protected, so if you dont like it fine, but i'll take em slabbed and raw both |
#14
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: rand
If i added up all the grading fees & SMR subcriptions i have paid, i am sure i could buy an SGC 60 Goudey Ruth (which i do not own at the moment), but i like to see my cards in an organized list and compared to other sets. One thing that bugs me is when a large dealer shows scans of their raw cards and they are overgraded to psa standards and the selling prices are as high as graded cards. So no better off here. |
#15
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Corey R. Shanus
Frank, |
#16
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Mike
This topic is tired and worn out. There are plenty of reasons that make sense on both sides of the issue. Can we discuss something else? I have some cards that are clothed, and some that are naked. For many different reasons. I don't have an intense hatred for either, nor an intense liking for either. There is a place for slabbed and unslabbed. For those that detest plastic, what is your price range, that you will go, without having one of your hated graders, check it for coloring, trimming, or a myriad of other problems. Would you pay $100k for a raw card? Just curious. |
#17
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Steve f
This could be helpful, cuz I for one am all over the place and could use some *focus. Let me be the guinea pig!.. Frank, may I get a trial eval? |
#18
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: T206Collector
...I used to respect your position. I never had issues with your interest in collecting only raw cards, and I often take issues with those who buy the holder and not the card inside. |
#19
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Ever since the "famous" Wagner card was graded (13 years ago), this hobby has seen dramatic change. |
#20
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: barrysloate
If anyone is impressed by the incredible growth in this hobby over the past decade, it is due primarily to the advent of professional grading. Take that out of the equation, and go back to the days of raw only, and the value of baseball cards would plummet. |
#21
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Al C.risafulli
Ted, your COMMENTS are understood. Perfectly. It's the insulting nature of Frank's repeated posts that are frustrating. |
#22
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: boxingcardman
It already exists and has for quite some time. I know of a number of collectors who have advisors who help them determine what cards to compile, what to pay for them, etc. I happen to think it is a pretty decent idea. Why should someone with enthusiasm for collecting and the ability to spend big bucks have to take his lumps, so to speak, when he can get an expert to advise him? As is the case with grading and price help, there are some collectors for whom it is useful. As far as I am concerned, whatever gets them interested and keeps them interested, so long as they enjoy it and stay interested, is a good thing. Would I substitute someone else's judgment for mine: no. But I can see where someone would want help branching into a specialty like Zeenuts or boxing cards. |
#23
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: John
Ted, |
#24
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: barrysloate
I agree with John that before professional grading trimmed cards were rampant, and so many people held onto these cards for years before they found out the bad news. I too love to reminisce about the old days, but buying altered cards is not one of the highlights. |
#25
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: John
Charlie Keller…I met them man multiple times as a kid as he lived in my small town, I have some pretty cool stories I can share Ted if your interested. Still have my 39 Playball, which he signed on the front porch of his home to me. |
#26
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Aaron
I also remember the scams in the 80's. Remember the lists that were sold telling you what was in a wax/cello pack by looking at the card showing in the back or front. I recall problems with people resealing wax packs. I also remember people at shows walking around with rulers measuring their cards they purchased. There was definitely problems before third party grading came along. |
#27
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Mike
I am uncertain as to what can be construed as a dinosaur. I'm 53. My wifes 100 year old grandmother, who recently passed away, thought I was a kid. Many of the cards I bought raw in the early 90's have since been deemed to be trimmed. Upon closer inspection, they were. One world series ticket from 1931, was repaired. Upon closer inspection, it was. I bought these when I was much younger and inexperienced. Several fairly high priced cards, were bought at the Chicago national, back in the early to mid ninties. Forget the exact year. "ALL" were bought from dealers who we all know by name, and personally. And are still around. I still have the receipts from these purchases. I will never know if they knew the items were tampered with. Maybe they did it themselves. Who knows. I chose not to pursure them, because I bought them in the ninties, and found out they were damaged, in 2003 or so. I submitted them to different graders and got the same results. How should I feel about this? I am not sure myself. Some would say I was scammed, others will say, it shouldn't matter, that I should love the cards regardless. That I should love the hobby, and cards enough to over look the tampering. Some will say I should have known better. Maybe. It is a debate that can be argued until the end of time. I slab them now, mostly for protection, so that i can take them places, and display, and show them to people. I have been in the hobby long enough, where I virtually always know the grade on a raw card if I buy it. I don't need anothers opinion as to the grade. I don't hate slabs, and I don't love slabs. They do however serve a purpose for me. I can always take them out if I like. It's not like they are prisoners for ever. Some will say I am a moron for slabbing them. Ask me if I care? |
#28
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: barrysloate
Mike- it's hard to love something you bought when you feel you were scammed. It leaves a bad taste for sure. |
#29
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: T206Collector
"And, as long as there is all this present day "paranoia" engendered with |
#30
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Mike
Right Barry. As I said, I can never know if I was scammed. It is a Tiny bit difficult for to believe that some the most respected and highly touted dealers in the country, didn't know they were selling trimmed cards. So the trimmed cards sit in my drawer. Some, I just dumped them cheaply to a dealer. I don't have a paranoid bone in my body. Paranoia has nothing to do with anything. It has more to with some folks selling me something, that I think is something else. I don't want to buy a Corvette, that has had major repair jobs, and not be told. I see no difference. I don't understand some peoples almost psychotic dislike of two pieces of plastic ? Each collect what they like. |
#31
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: barrysloate
I used to buy trimmed cards from some of the top dealers, too...and they knew. |
#32
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Peter Spaeth
Remember the SCD ads from the early and mid 90's of guys who used to sell nothing but Mint and NM/MT raw cards? I learned my lesson on those; virtually every one of them was either so obviously trimmed I could tell just from the size, or in cases where I wasn't sure was rejected by PSA when I later submitted them. |
#33
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: E, Daniel
as Mike makes mentions above of a corvette....... |
#34
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Golly.... |
#35
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: T206Collector
...suggested a downward spiral of Orwellian proportions for graded card collectors -- that we were all mindless lemmings looking for the next way to get further removed from the pure joy of collecting. |
#36
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Brian
"Ever since the "famous" Wagner card was graded (13 years ago), this hobby has seen dramatic change." |
#37
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: E, Daniel
I've actually been thinking about it alot lately, and I personally would love to see a return to packaging cards with non-related product. |
#38
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Frank, when you want to buy shares of GE do you just offer whatever you feel they are worth? Or do you check the last price and bid accordingly? |
#39
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Steve M.
nolemmings here. (Hi Todd ) |
#40
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Mike Snyder
I regard this shift as a change in paradigm for the hobby. Much as the way technology has changed the workplace, the home, travel, etc. it has caught up with trading card collecting. Its value created a value-added that has really overwhelmed the hobby, as can be inferred from these posts. |
#41
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Steve M.
Did I miss something? |
#42
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
At the risk of some of these guys thinking that you and I are some "one-two punch" regarding |
#43
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: JimB
Ted said, |
#44
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Cobby33
With no undue respect to anybody- try paying over $1,000 for a bunch of fake cards. Then, maybe one will have a better appreciation for graded cards. |
#45
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: T206Collector
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#46
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: leon
At the risk of making this a 3 person chatboard I understood Frank's initial post and took it the way I believe he meant it to be. I know he (Hi Frank) speaks better than I do but what I think he meant was "what's next?" in regards to the fact that we have so many things to help us in collecting one need not learn about the cards or the history anymore. It can all be done for you....except the beer drinking .....And that can't be replaced.... |
#47
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: T206Collector
...I purchased on ebay an ungraded T206 card signed by Fred Snodgrass. It came with an index card that had a note from Sno describing how he was once a catcher and that the correspondent should look for the Glory of Their Times in the next year. It is, to me, an amazing piece of baseball history, especially for the T206 collector. |
#48
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: John
Why does it always have to be a graded or un-graded thing here with you guys?? Why mention it at every turn does it keep you guys up at night or something??? I just don’t get it. |
#49
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: barrysloate
Would everybody please learn that "your telling me" is spelled "you're telling me". If one more person spells "you're" incorrectly Jeff Lichtman and I will have your collective heads. |
#50
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What is next in 21st century card collecting
Posted By: Josh Adams
I agree with Paul. Very well put. |
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