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#1
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: T206Collector
chicagotribune.com |
#2
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
That Jeff Coen really hates Mastro. Bastard. |
#3
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: barrysloate
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#4
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Anonymous
(sings the Warren Zevon line) |
#5
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: John
If they really wanted to get under Mastro's skin they should have served them the subpoenas but charged them $75 bucks for each one. |
#6
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: JK
That is really funny John. |
#7
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: andy becker
what josh said! |
#8
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: boxingcardman
Charge them $75 for the subpoenas but (1) give them free to more important people and (2) change the terms of the subpoena in the middle of the investigation. |
#9
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: peter spaeth
I wonder if the Feds have anyone analagous to the dealer who worked undercover helping them in Operation Bullpen. |
#10
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: boxingcardman
Code name "Deep Collection" |
#11
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
John, trust me -- the cost of each subpoena to Mastro is more than $75. |
#12
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: DD
This is not meant to be tongue in cheek. |
#13
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
David, |
#14
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Bruce Dorskind
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#15
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Lance
at the end of every auction, a bidders list must be made available to the public for review? If Joe Nobody, who hasn't ever won an auction, but placed bids on half of the entire auction, it might raise suspicion. Then again, you may find the same two names splitting the auctions down the middle. I actually enjoyed seeing who I was bidding against in the "old days" of Ebay and I think this simple plan could eliminate all shill bidding doubts. The auction houses have nothing to lose by doing this. Sure, some high end buyers will want to stay in the shadows, but they will all agree if it's the only way to make a purchase. I feel this could simply eliminate the problem with the smallest amount of effort for the auction houses. |
#16
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Jodi Birkholm
To say that "the auction houses have nothing to lose by [openly listing all bidders]" is a ridiculously naive statement. To publicly disclose who is bidding in their auctions would rank the ire of all privacy-minded customers, both the big players and the smaller bidders. Following that logic, I suppose auction houses may as well simply send an address list of their entire clientele to every dealer out there, along with an attached post-it note reading, "Here! Take our business away from us! It's not as if we have families to feed! Sincerely, Auctioneer & Co.". |
#17
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: raymond g.
Lance its a good thing you didn't use "Joe Pa". WE ARE --- |
#18
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Anonymous
I agree with Corey and Bruce, though the situation might be different for a publicly-traded company subject to disclosure requirements. |
#19
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Steve
Agree with Corey. |
#20
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Steve Murray
Me too. |
#21
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Lance
Jodi, |
#22
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: JT Burchfield
While I'm sure auction companies will not make their bidder lists public, I can see a good business opportunity for someone to act as an auction "auditor". If I was one of the major auction houses, I would be willing to let an independent auditor come in and verify things like 1) no shill bidding, 2) policies being adhered to, etc. This is assuming that the auditor signs confidentiality agreements, etc. That stamp of approval from a truly independent source would mean a lot to me as a customer given the rumors of shady dealings flying around the hobby right now. |
#23
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Jodi Birkholm
Lance, |
#24
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Jodi Birkholm
JT, |
#25
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: leon
Understanding Scott and I are very new to the auction house business we believe our written policy (permanent on our website) helps alleviate fear. Add to this the fact that from day 1 Scott and I HAVE NEVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE EVEN 1 MAX BID and the fear of shilling should be nill......No, we can't stop what others do in our auction but we can police ourselves as much as possible. PLUS, we have a written rule against us, or family members, bidding in auctions... 0/12.5% ...why pay more? |
#26
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Lance
I agree that there will be no solution to cure the entire problem. But, with record prices realized in EVERY auction, it makes me wonder. Is there never a situation where something loses a little value? Or, is there never an auction that is simply over-looked by the masses and a great deal is found? I do know if I won an auction and I won with a ceiling bid, I personally would feel better if the auction house had to justify maxxing my bid. Even if it was disclosing the first under-bidder only. A name, an email address, something to say someone else wanted this item ALMOST as much as I do. How many times do we see other congratulate others on the board on items they were the next in line for? I don't feel something like this would hurt the business and actually I see it as a way to increase business. The more I trust an individual or company, the more likely I will try to do business with them. Trust is everything and the auction houses are going to have to do something to reassure the public's faith. Anyway.... |
#27
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Guys, there already is an auditor in place for Mastro's auctions -- it's called the FBI. |
#28
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
An independent auditor could, at a minimum, verify that each lot "sold" was actually sold and payment received --as opposed to being clandestinely returned to the consignor if it didn't meet an undisclosed reserve. But I don't think this is likely to happen. |
#29
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
In the end it boils down to how much trust you have in the auction house. Most/all will cite safeguards they implement to assure prospective bidders the practice does not take place. Some will be comforted by those safeguards, other will wonder if they exist or if there are not loopholes around them. The best protection in my view is simply to not make ceiling bids -- to either check if your bid has been topped as the lot nears its close, or in the alternative to request a callback in the event you are topped. Yes, I know this can be inconvenient, and even impractical for those without access to a computer or a phone. And it won't eliminate all questions whether shilling took place. But it will at least increase the risk to the auction house of shilling you up, and increase the odds you won the item at the lowest possible price. |
#30
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: barrysloate
There are a few auction houses, which I will leave nameless, that consistently get higher prices than even the houses that are much larger than they are. Considering we all share roughly the same pool of bidders, I find this perplexing. |
#31
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: boxingcardman
But if shills and hidden reserves are used to ensure that an item doesn't sell for too little, why not just place a reserve and do it legally? Why all the machinations to accomplish something that you could just do? |
#32
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Fred C
The hell with reserve prices. If there is a minimum price for the auction then that should be the minimum bid. Anyone interested in the item at the minimum bid price will bid on it. Hidden reserves are bull$hit (excuse me). Auctions houses (big and small) should adhere to that rule. |
#33
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: shane leonard
We think this is a good idea for an investigation to occur on the behalf of our industry. Whilst it may take a couple of years to sort out this mess, we are of the opinion that this can only better our hobby. |
#34
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Jodi Birkholm
Shane, |
#35
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
I am sure that the experience of the world's major auction houses demonstrates that more buyers show more interest, and are likely ultimately to bid higher, with low minimum bids. |
#36
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: boxingcardman
But if your choices are (1) illegally shill an auction or (2) establish a reserve legally, I'd think any reasonably intelligent auctioneer would opt not to risk his reputation, business and possibly personal freedom on option #1. But then, what do I know; I'm just an armpit collector without a secondary personality or plastic fetish. |
#37
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
I continue to think the more important ethical issue is where someone actually wins an item who was shilled up to his ceiling bid and otherwise would have won it for less; not the situation where the outcome would have been the same with our without a hidden reserve, i.e. that the bidder did not win the item. |
#38
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: davidcycleback
For practical rather than philosophical purposes, the main question in a situation such as this is whether or not the practice is illegal. The law is arbiter. Comparing shilling and reserves is comparing apples and oranges, as one is legal and is illegal. |
#39
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
"But if your choices are (1) illegally shill an auction or (2) establish a reserve legally, I'd think any reasonably intelligent auctioneer would opt not to risk his reputation, business and possibly personal freedom on option #1." |
#40
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: davidcycleback
People who shill don't anticipate getting caught. If they anticipated being caught, they wouldn't shill. |
#41
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: paulstratton
Does this mean the FBI is going to be able to look at consignors/bidders personal information? How often they consign things or bid on lots? |
#42
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Paul, I guess it depends upon a) what records were subpoenaed; and b) if such records still exist. Sometimes those pesky bidding records find their way to the paper shredder. |
#43
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: paulstratton
Thanks Jeff. |
#44
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: B.C.Daniels
how much do you think the subpoenas will bring in up coming Mastro auctions???? |
#45
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Depends if PSA grades them. |
#46
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Kevin
Even better...if Topps gets the rights there can be enough to go around. |
#47
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: John
Kevin...one of the funniest things I've seen on here! |
#48
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Matt
Kevin - how is that not in a PSA slab? |
#49
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Mastro Being Investigated - Article
Posted By: Kevin
Kevin - how is that not in a PSA slab? |
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