S74 experts needed

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Posted By: Damian Anderson

I am mostly a lurker here anymore, just for the sake that I am still learning. If there are any experts with the S74 set I am asking you to PM for some info. The reason for the PM is that I feel that public communication about cards I have offered for sale in the past have resulted in low sale prices for one reason or another. Folk are great here and I appreciate any help. Thanks.

Best Regards,
Damian

My e-mail address is damiananderson7@hotmail.com Thanks again!

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Posted By: John S

Damian,

Do you have any specific questions? If you are looking for general information regarding the set the Old Cardboard website is a great place to start. There are a few regulars on the board that are very knowledgeable regarding this issue. Post some questions as I would like to see the responses as well.

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Posted By: Damian Anderson

I do have several general questions such as who grades this issue and how are they graded? I also have specific questions about a "card" I acquired that I would like info on privately. Thanks to all that can help.

Damian

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Posted By: Ed Hans

Damian,
I don't consider myself an "expert" on S74's, but I do have several and closely follow the auctions on ebay. I'm surprised at your disappointment over your sales results, as the market for both versions of this set has taken off in the last few years. Email me if you'd like.

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Posted By: Bobby Binder

I have only seen these graded by GAI and BVG.

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Posted By: Damian Anderson

Here is a link to the silk I won. I guess I am wondering if I got a good deal in terms of reselling immediately. Looks nice except for the slight fraying. Wondering how much it down grades it or if this is acceptable or normal with this issue. Thanks again.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300182544564&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=020

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Posted By: leon

Silks are not one of my specialties but it's my understanding (and I will be corrected if I am wrong) that on these S74's you need to either have the backing on it (type 1), to show the mfg, or have the mfg below the player on the front (type 2)...in order to have "all" of the piece. Many don't have either...but that is common. According to Lipset's Encyclopedia "If a white silk does not have the brown backing, which is often the case, it should be considered damaged, and worth a small percentage of it's normal value". The white silks are about a 1/2 inch smaller than the colored ones, too. The one you got is very nice but without the brown backing will resell for less than one with it. Hard to say if you got a good buy but I would think it's a little high without said backing.....Hope this helps....regards

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Posted By: Anonymous

Here are 2 graded examples by GAI. Type 1 and type 2. I am not that fond of the way they are encapsuled.

Joe



Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Ed Hans

Damian,
Your silk is either a white silk without the paper backing or a colored silk that has had the top AND bottom captions trimmed off. I'm guessing the former. As Leon noted, white silks without the paper backing are worth a small fraction (maybe 25% or less) of those with the original back intact. You would have had a very nice buy at $200 if the silk was complete, but I wouldn't look for a quick return on your investment with this piece. best of luck.

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Posted By: paulstratton

This is my only one so I can't offer any expertise. It's really hard to get a good pic of these when they are in holders, I do know that.

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Posted By: leon

The S74's with the backing still on them generally bring pretty strong money.....unfortunately, somewhere in the range of the one just bought on ebay... The last ones I bought and sold without backs went in the $70-$100 range, if I remember correctly....you can double or triple that for ones with backs, imo....(I guess I know a tad more than I let on)...

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Posted By: John S

Damian,

Your S74 appears to be a S74-1. The amount of fraying on the top/bottom is typical for a white silk that has been removed from its backing. Its a nice silk but as others have stated the lack of backing reduces the value. I have about twenty S74-1's and only one has the backing. They S74's with backing intact are extremely difficult to obtain. The example below with backing is in fair condition and was purchased on eBay within the last year for about $100. The Willett was purchased for about $12. It still presents very well without the backing.

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Posted By: andy becker

hi damian,
silks are graded today by gai and beckett i believe. i own an sgc graded silk, but sgc does not grade them anymore. i have never seen a psa graded silk.

the information above is correct. your's is a white silk (s74-1) that has had the backing removed. silks, in general, are pretty uncommon. silks with the original paper backing are very tough, and command top dollar.

white silks were issued folded in packs of cigarettes, so finding one that has never been folded is extremely difficult.

brand ranking (easiest to rarest) for white silks is:

-old mill
-turkey red
-turkey red with frame
-red sun (rare)
-helmar (exceedingly rare, i know of two)

s74-1 fronts come in three colors:
-brown
-maroon
-blue (toughest)


colored silks (s74-2) are available in many colors. colored silks did not have a backing and are considered complete with a brand on the bottom and a factory on the top.

brands for colored silks are:
old mill and turkey red. neither commands a premium.

colored silks were also issued folded. i have never seen an unfolded colored silk, though my focus has been on s74-1.

i would be happy to discuss further, if you want email me at:
bbe8481070@aol.com

happy holidays,
andy

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Damian,

It looks like they are all being nice and tippytoeing around your question. I do not think you can immediately resell that S74 and recoup what you paid. I think you'll fall quite a bit short if you auction it on eBay anytime soon.

Seems to me that they can be collected without the backing, but would need to be handled carefully, because they will eventually unravel. I like the little things, and I'm ok with ones without backs. But the grading companies and strict collectors insist on the backing, which yours seems to lack.

Mr. Lipset's volume 3 of his Encyclopedia has a good article about S74s and the companion issues. If you've not seen that, try to buy a copy of the book. If you're going to collect S74s, you need that.

With kind regards,

Frank.

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Posted By: Aaron Seefeldt

I have owned several s74s over the years, both white and colored. In terms of information about the sets, Andy's post above is dead on.

I used to be a dealer at shows and was fortunate to come across a few great groups of s74s (whites with backs and colored without).

I used to have a silk proof (that I bought off of Dave Festberg) which was the size of a white silk but colored blue with a blank white paper (more like thin cardboard) backing. I want to say it was of Phillipe (but it could have been Meyers can't remember for sure) and unfortunately I lost the darned thing in my basement...

Without the paper backing you have overpaid, me thinx. As a matter of fact, you could prolly contest the seller that he did not mention the back is missing and perhaps you can get out of it. Just a suggestion.

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Posted By: dennis

seller did mention it was blank-backed.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Hey Andy, here are 2 silks with no fold, 1 color and 1 white. Interesting that they are both Summers(Detroit).

Joe






Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Bob C

I think the colored ones do not have backs.
All of my white S74-s have Turkey Red or Old Mill backs.
Would love to pick up another back variation if anone is selling!

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Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

Although the colored silks are normally found without backing several with backs have been found. David Festberg auctioned 2 years ago.

Patrick