SPORTS CARD RADIO (anonymus PSA "insider")

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

The card entire industry is forever tainted...especially PSA. the most trusted name in sports cards is in on the biggest swindle America has ever seen. It's bigger than Bernie Madoff, IMHO. My friend who is a Producer at Net Flix was asking me questions about the FAKE CARDS SCAM (as he called it) at our weekly poker game. We had 600K already raised for the project in 5 minutes after they heard what kind of wool has been pulled over the sheoples eyes.

The Bernie Madoff scandal was somewhere around $50 billion. Do you really think this is bigger than Madoff? I'm not so sure about that.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

The Bernie Madoff scandal was somewhere around $50 billion. Do you really think this is bigger than Madoff? I'm not so sure about that.

If Madoff wasn't a PSA fan, you may be right.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

If Madoff wasn't a PSA fan, you may be right.

Q: Why is Bernie Madoff like a slabbed card?

A: Because they are both entombed.

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

The Bernie Madoff scandal was somewhere around $50 billion. Do you really think this is bigger than Madoff? I'm not so sure about that.

Yes, I believe that HE honestly believes it. He has stated in many posts that he will never purchase a card again, the whole hobby is tainted, nobody can be trusted, etc. It's obvious he his not a collector and just comes here for the drama at this point. If you aren't collecting there really seems to be no other reason to come to this forum multiple times a day. If there was something in life that got me so worked up, I guess I would find something better to do with my time.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

Yes, I believe that HE honestly believes it. He has stated in many posts that he will never purchase a card again, the whole hobby is tainted, nobody can be trusted, etc. It's obvious he his not a collector and just comes here for the drama at this point. If you aren't collecting there really seems to be no other reason to come to this forum multiple times a day. If there was something in life that got me so worked up, I guess I would find something better to do with my time.

Chuck has to make up for all the people saying it is a small percentage of cards that are altered. IMHO they are WAY more delusional than Chuck. Maybe he is passionate about cards and the reason he posts about the fraud constantly.

I know I am baffled beyond belief how so many are trying to minimize what is going on. I do get their reason though. I sincerely hope karma is a real thing.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Chuck has to make up for all the people saying it is a small percentage of cards that are altered. IMHO they are WAY more delusional than Chuck. Maybe he is passionate about cards and the reason he posts about the fraud constantly.

I know I am baffled beyond belief how so many are trying to minimize what is going on. I do get their reason though. I sincerely hope karma is a real thing.

They minimize what is happening because they’re profiting off selling/pushing PSA Slabbed cards or they’re holding thousands of dollars of PSA slabbed cards in Registry sets or as investment hordes.

This has long time been a major cause of why this Sh#T continues...we have all known what has been going on for over 25 years yet it’s always played downed and Hushed Off. To many people are making money, AH’s Dealers, eBay Sellers, and collectors a like. They only care about money and greed. I still think something is being worked out to accept some form of altering as restorative legitimacy....such a farce and more Bull To The Sh+T

[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

They minimize what is happening because they’re profiting off selling/pushing PSA Slabbed cards or they’re holding thousands of dollars of PSA slabbed cards in Registry sets or as investment hordes.

This has long time been a major cause of why this Sh#T continues...we have all known what has been going on for over 25 years yet it’s always played downed and Hushed Off. To many people are making money, AH’s Dealers, eBay Sellers, and collectors a like. They only care about money and greed. I still think something is being worked out to accept some form of altering as restorative legitimacy....such a farce and more Bull To The Sh+T

+1

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

They minimize what is happening because they’re profiting off selling/pushing PSA Slabbed cards or they’re holding thousands of dollars of PSA slabbed cards in Registry sets or as investment hordes.

This has long time been a major cause of why this Sh#T continues...we have all known what has been going on for over 25 years yet it’s always played downed and Hushed Off. To many people are making money, AH’s Dealers, eBay Sellers, and collectors a like. They only care about money and greed. I still think something is being worked out to accept some form of altering as restorative legitimacy....such a farce and more Bull To The Sh+T

Worked out between whom, law enforcement and PWCC, between PSA and its current customers?

That may all be well and good in regard to how THESE players choose to view things. However, it will have no bearing on how the market (i.e., future buyers) view it. In the end, a card is worth what an informed buyer is willing to pay. And if some day (hopefully sooner rather than later), a buyer will be able know what has been done to the card not via terminology (i.e., alteration versus restoration) but instead by the actual work done, the price that buyer will be willing to pay will indicate his/her "acceptance" of any such restorative legitimacy.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

They minimize what is happening because they’re profiting off selling/pushing PSA Slabbed cards or they’re holding thousands of dollars of PSA slabbed cards in Registry sets or as investment hordes.

This has long time been a major cause of why this Sh#T continues...we have all known what has been going on for over 25 years yet it’s always played downed and Hushed Off. To many people are making money, AH’s Dealers, eBay Sellers, and collectors a like. They only care about money and greed. I still think something is being worked out to accept some form of altering as restorative legitimacy....such a farce and more Bull To The Sh+T

Well said...

But you neglected to mention the biggest money-maker of all... PSA.

Just imagine what might happen to them if even 1/4 of the collecting public knew about this. Right now, I’d estimate that less than 5% are even aware. I asked around at the National, and roughly 1 out of 20 people were aware of the Card Scandal or Slabgate. It wasn’t a scientific survey by any means... but it does demonstrate how few people are clued-in to the problems.

Of those few who are aware, the vast majority remain silent for the financial reasons stated above. And the sleuths uncovering the massive fraud are reprimanded/minimized (by Sloan, Orlando and all of the PSA apologists who claim that under 1% of numerically graded cards are altered). Just say nothing and it will go away! Even here, it seems like there are less than 30 people who regularly express outrage, or post on it honestly and objectively.

So unless the word spreads a lot further (or the Law cracks down hard) it will just be status quo. They’ve gotta keep their gravy train from derailing at all costs.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

the price that buyer will be willing to pay will indicate his/her "acceptance" of any such restorative legitimacy.

I think the registry guys will show plenty of acceptance of the restorative legitimacy of all of this. They have to protect their investments.

Originally Posted by perezfan

Even here, it seems like there are less than 30 people who regularly express outrage, or post on it honestly and objectively.

So unless the word spreads a lot further (or the Law cracks down hard) it will just be status quo. They’ve gotta keep their gravy train from derailing at all costs.

I don't comment too often on all of this because I find most of my opinions continually get posted before I can get them posted myself. I feel like PSA is a huge part of the problem, PWCC knew what was going on and was complicit in the whole thing and I hope the FBI do bring charges on someone. I wish more collectors knew about the scandal also. I agree there are way too few who know anything about it.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

I think the registry guys will show plenty of acceptance of the restorative legitimacy of all of this. They have to protect their investments.

As long as these registry guys are buying and selling only amongst themselves, they will have the ability to have current market pricing accept the concept of restorative legitimacy. But to hold value new buyers will need to enter the hobby. And it is THOSE NEW BUYERS, people who have no loyalty to any grading method and no horse in the race as to whether currently graded cards hold value, who will determine future market prices.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Well said...

But you neglected to mention the biggest money-maker of all... PSA.

Just imagine what might happen to them if even 1/4 of the collecting public knew about this. Right now, I’d estimate that less than 5% are even aware. I asked around at the National, and roughly 1 out of 20 people were aware of the Card Scandal or Slabgate. It wasn’t a scientific survey by any means... but it does demonstrate how few people are clued-in to the problems.

Of those few who are aware, the vast majority remain silent for the financial reasons stated above. And the sleuths uncovering the massive fraud are reprimanded/minimized (by Sloan, Orlando and all of the PSA apologists who claim that under 1% of numerically graded cards are altered). Just say nothing and it will go away! Even here, it seems like there are less than 30 people who regularly express outrage, or post on it honestly and objectively.

So unless the word spreads a lot further (or the Law cracks down hard) it will just be status quo. They’ve gotta keep their gravy train from derailing at all costs.

Yes sir exactly !

[irv]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Well said...

But you neglected to mention the biggest money-maker of all... PSA.

Just imagine what might happen to them if even 1/4 of the collecting public knew about this. Right now, I’d estimate that less than 5% are even aware. I asked around at the National, and roughly 1 out of 20 people were aware of the Card Scandal or Slabgate. It wasn’t a scientific survey by any means... but it does demonstrate how few people are clued-in to the problems.

Of those few who are aware, the vast majority remain silent for the financial reasons stated above. And the sleuths uncovering the massive fraud are reprimanded/minimized (by Sloan, Orlando and all of the PSA apologists who claim that under 1% of numerically graded cards are altered). Just say nothing and it will go away! Even here, it seems like there are less than 30 people who regularly express outrage, or post on it honestly and objectively.

So unless the word spreads a lot further (or the Law cracks down hard) it will just be status quo. They’ve gotta keep their gravy train from derailing at all costs.

I had read prior to the National some were talking about handing out papers/information about the scandal to those waiting in line and to those already inside. Did anyone do that or see anyone else doing that while there?

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

I think the registry guys will show plenty of acceptance of the restorative legitimacy of all of this. They have to protect their investments.



I don't comment too often on all of this because I find most of my opinions continually get posted before I can get them posted myself. I feel like PSA is a huge part of the problem, PWCC knew what was going on and was complicit in the whole thing and I hope the FBI do bring charges on someone. I wish more collectors knew about the scandal also. I agree there are way too few who know anything about it.

I'm the same. I am fully aware of the problem and I post regularily on 2 FB sites I frequent but those 2 sites might just be a majority of members here?
One site I was banned/kicked off of after I posted the Hitler parody.

Imo, just because some don't frequently post about it doesn't mean they aren't aware of it.

I had written PSA and PWCC off long before this scandal hit and my reasons weren't even about the doctoring but mainly due to the inconsistency I seen with PSA and the questionable practices I seen from PWCC.
This scandal just cemented/confirmed my reasons/thoughts and I for one, no matter what, will ever get a card graded with PSA nor will I ever purchase or consign any cards through PWCC ever again.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

The Bernie Madoff scandal was somewhere around $50 billion. Do you really think this is bigger than Madoff? I'm not so sure about that.

you're probably right, I stand corrected. Not even in my wildest dreams do I think it's 50 Billion but, who really knows? This "musical chairs" has been going on ad nauseam for 20 years now. You would agree the magnitude is HUGE?

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

you're probably right, I stand corrected. Not even in my wildest dreams do I think it's 50 Billion but, who really knows? This "musical chairs" has been going on ad nauseam for 20 years now. You would agree the magnitude is HUGE?

Yes, I do believe the magnitude is huge. I don't think it's a matter of just a few bad cards.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Yes, I do believe the magnitude is huge. I don't think it's a matter of just a few bad cards.

I agree Barry. Of course it's huge. It's been going on rampantly for 15+ years.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

I agree Barry. Of course it's huge. It's been going on rampantly for 15+ years.

In 1996 Daniel Desmond said he had restored thousands of cards in the VCBC 7 article he was quoted in. We know he is still doing it today, a mere 23 years later.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=270622

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=253875
.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

In 1996 Daniel Desmond said he had restored thousands of cards in the VCBC 7 article he was quoted in. We know he is still doing it today, a mere 23 years later.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=270622

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=253875
.

And why not, it's steady work and the pay is good, and there seems to be no risk.

[CuriousGeorge]

I would think anyone who has the FBI knocking on their door would disagree with that statement and say there is risk. Now I know no one has been arrested yet, no civil lawsuits or death sentences, but I suspect having the FBI investigating your life cannot be pleasant.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And why not, it's steady work and the pay is good, and there seems to be no risk.

[samosa4u]

On pg 47 of the article, DD states that "the sale of restored cards, priced and sold as restored cards could create a whole new market. It would give the average collector a chance to own the high end cards in beautiful condition for a fraction of the normal cost, cards that they could never otherwise afford."

The problem with this is that any card that gets restored is not going to be sold as a restored card, nor will it be priced as a restored card.

On the same page, DD also said that PSA was thinking of getting him to work as a consultant for them, but in the end it just didn't work out. Well, I think that would have been a great idea. PSA should have worked with all the best card doctors in the hobby. It would only make them better at detecting restorations.