Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Though they don't surface often, I've seen plenty of beat-up examples over the years. I usually pass on them because I'm a condition freak. But I have seen (and owned) examples that are moth-eaten, stained, soiled, torn, missing felt, and have holes, slits, etc. I've also seen a few where the embroidered leather has peeled off and either remains loose or has been glued back on to the felt.

You can easily tell the difference between a vintage example and a reproduction when you have them in-hand. And great Santa Clara Pennants, BTW!

These have natural aging and a few tiny moth holes. I think I’ve seen the Sox pennant (not this but another) as part of a homemade blanket with other pennants from the era. I think it was yours, Mark?

One interesting thing is that the sizes are all different … anywhere from 38” to 43” long.

I’m guessing that these were made before silk screening became widely used (which occurred in early 1910s). Only because that’s a lot of effort to make for a detailed graphic. Literally burning it by hand.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Oh man … I wish it was me … and what a bargain!

I was in two minds about it. The fact that the material looked a bit badly cut made me question whether it was a fantasy piece.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I was in two minds about it. The fact that the material looked a bit badly cut made me question whether it was a fantasy piece.

I had a $500 bid on this pennant and Clean Sweep emailed me to see if I meant $50. They wanted to be sure I knew it was "homemade". I thought maybe they and/or the consignor weren't familiar with this style and assumed it was homemade...but I had noticed the weird cut as well, so I let them cancel my bid anyway.

[bocca001]

Greg's look more like what I was thinking. That recent Pitts and the Detroit are the ones that look maybe too new to me, but maybe they were just put away for many years. The Detroit one also has no tassels, but maybe that is not a big deal, as it seems that there is a lot of variability within this line of pennants.

Thanks for showing these. Is there an NY Giants?

[perezfan]

I've never seen a Giants version, but am pretty sure that one must've been made.

I passed on the Tigers Pennant because the cut looked fishy to me... I could not get past the fact that it looked altered on both the top and bottom borders. Perhaps it was just crudely cut that way. I was, however the high underbidder but decided not to go any higher, largely because I already have a very similar one.

I don't think Verkman did the consignor any favors by saying the pennant was home-made and from the 1930s. It was sitting under $100 for over a month, and up until the final auction day. When extended bidding finally arrived, it was the dreaded scenario of me vs. one single person on the planet. Since I was lacking patience that night, I just let the other guy have it. Probably should've gone a few increments higher and then flipped it to REA or LOTG (who would've assigned it a proper age and description).

[thetahat]

Hmmm … because of the considerable variability in size, shape of letters, etc … it’s possible that it’s a natural cut. But it’s the bottom edge where the reinforced border meets the wide part, it looks like it was cut through the line of stitching. The back of the pennant would tell the story. These were all seemingly made with tassels - often two color - this one probably had them cut off.

For the price? I still thing a good deal and a great display for whoever grabbed it.

[ooo-ribay]

Yikes….I’m glad I didn’t have to go back and forth on that pennant….since it’s not Giants and since I never even saw the auction. You guys don’t miss much.

[UKCardGuy]

I asked for photos of the back during the auction listing. There looks to be a lighter color on the back of the spine where a label might have been. But if it had a label, it shouldn't have the uneven cuts on the top and bottom borders.

In then end there were too many unanswered questions for me.

[perezfan]

Thanks for posting that pic of the reverse. Still looks like a dull scissors job to me.

[thetahat]

I have this in my pics … the third team I’ve seen now with two different versions (inverted colors)

[UKCardGuy]

Here's a new arrival. Except for a little bit of the tip missing it's in pretty nice shape. For the price, it was just begging for a new home.

[perezfan]

Nice pickup! That’s a toughie. There an identical Boston Braves version as well, so pretty safe to say it’s a first-year Milwaukee pennant.

[Duluth Eskimo]

I believe the Tigers is legit for what it’s worth. I generally look at Clean Sweep, but missed this one.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

I believe the Tigers is legit for what it’s worth. I generally look at Clean Sweep, but missed this one.

Thanks Jason. My questions about the Tigers pennant were down to the quality of it's construction. The uneven cut, the wavy stitching on the spine stood out to me. but the font and the tigers head looked good to me. The fact that the listing mentioned homemade and not hand-made, was another question for me.

I'd like to be educated about the early manufacturing processes if anyone has insight. For early pennants like Greg's Cubs and White Sox examples, I'm guessing these have been made on some sort of manufacturing process even if that was a single room in a shop somewhere? Sewing machines were in wide use by 1905 so I'm guessing these wouldn't have been hand stitched. Is that correct?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

Thanks Jason. My questions about the Tigers pennant were down to the quality of it's construction. The uneven cut, the wavy stitching on the spine stood out to me. but the font and the tigers head looked good to me. The fact that the listing mentioned homemade and not hand-made, was another question for me.

I'd like to be educated about the early manufacturing processes if anyone has insight. For early pennants like Greg's Cubs and White Sox examples, I'm guessing these have been made on some sort of manufacturing process even if that was a single room in a shop somewhere? Sewing machines were in wide use by 1905 so I'm guessing these wouldn't have been hand stitched. Is that correct?

Clean Sweep scared me off by emailing me to tell me it was homemade so even they didn't know what they had. This consignor got a bit of a raw deal.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

Thanks Jason. My questions about the Tigers pennant were down to the quality of it's construction. The uneven cut, the wavy stitching on the spine stood out to me. but the font and the tigers head looked good to me. The fact that the listing mentioned homemade and not hand-made, was another question for me.

I'd like to be educated about the early manufacturing processes if anyone has insight. For early pennants like Greg's Cubs and White Sox examples, I'm guessing these have been made on some sort of manufacturing process even if that was a single room in a shop somewhere? Sewing machines were in wide use by 1905 so I'm guessing these wouldn't have been hand stitched. Is that correct?

Kyle will know best. I can only speculate that this was the earliest pennant “series”, where a manufacturer made pennants of the same style for different teams. Felt has the feel of an army blanket. They are well made.

[MK]

Acquired this hard to find Cubs pennant which I believe is from the 1930s. Odd colors with purple body, orange spine and red tassels.

[UKCardGuy]

That's a nice pennant. What size is it?

There's a similar one from 1945 but the graphics look a little different.

[MK]

It’s 26 inches. The World Series pennant you picture (mine I believe unless you have a clone) is more like the one below.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by MK

Acquired this hard to find Cubs pennant which I believe is from the 1930s. Odd colors with purple body, orange spine and red tassels.

Mike this is really cool, congrats. Condition looks fantastic!

[MK]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Mike this is really cool, congrats. Condition looks fantastic!

Thanks! No pin holes.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

Thanks Jason. My questions about the Tigers pennant were down to the quality of it's construction. The uneven cut, the wavy stitching on the spine stood out to me. but the font and the tigers head looked good to me. The fact that the listing mentioned homemade and not hand-made, was another question for me.

I'd like to be educated about the early manufacturing processes if anyone has insight. For early pennants like Greg's Cubs and White Sox examples, I'm guessing these have been made on some sort of manufacturing process even if that was a single room in a shop somewhere? Sewing machines were in wide use by 1905 so I'm guessing these wouldn't have been hand stitched. Is that correct?

Obviously you can never be sure unless the item is in hand and generally Steve Verkman has good experience in vintage collectibles, but I believe it is authentic. The material on these early pennant is high quality thicker material that sometimes curls on the edges. The stain on the reverse piping area is from what I believe to be a previous makers label. Also, legit moth holes appear present in the rear material consistent with the era. Hard to see the stitching between the two pieces, but that doesn’t scare me off. The stitching on piping looks a little funky, but again I’m not worried. I didn’t get it, but I believe it is authentic. It is something I’d like to have in hand before plunking down money for it, but not always possible. If anything, it could have possibly trimmed near the edges. Just giving my take on it.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

Thanks Jason. My questions about the Tigers pennant were down to the quality of it's construction. The uneven cut, the wavy stitching on the spine stood out to me. but the font and the tigers head looked good to me. The fact that the listing mentioned homemade and not hand-made, was another question for me.

I'd like to be educated about the early manufacturing processes if anyone has insight. For early pennants like Greg's Cubs and White Sox examples, I'm guessing these have been made on some sort of manufacturing process even if that was a single room in a shop somewhere? Sewing machines were in wide use by 1905 so I'm guessing these wouldn't have been hand stitched. Is that correct?

Put me in the camp that thinks the Tigers pennant is genuine and unaltered.

Although I understand the temptation for unscrupulous sellers to doctor their collectibles, when it comes to pennants, I think that occurs far less frequently than we all think. The earliest pennants, say from ca. 1910s, were mostly hand made. The felt was cut by hand with scissors using crude templates; then sewn together at lightning speed by a seamstress using a sewing machine. There was variation from one pennant to the next.

For those makers that screen printed their pennants, you saw similar inconsistencies. Sometimes the stencil carrier was in perfect register; and sometimes, not so much. When secondary colors were applied using an airbrush, you saw even more variations. Nobody really cared about quality control, so most of these "inferior" products were sold with the very best of their stock.

For instance, I often hear collectors ID a pennant's tip as doctored because the graphics don't quite line up with the center axis of the pennant. Sure, that's possible ... but more likely: the stencil was not in perfect register with the felt when they screened it. Having screen printed one or two pennants, I can tell you from experience this is really easy to do.

Blunted or squared tips? Yeah, the consumer could've caused this; but, just as likely the pennant left the factory that way on account of the screen printer placing their stencil too close to the edge of the felt roll.

With this Tigers pennant, note that it's of two-piece construction. That means the felt cutter had to get the top and bottom slope/angles of both pieces just right for the pennant to fit correctly. I think he/she may have missed the mark on one piece is all. If I had to guess, he/she cut the orange head-end too short; then tried to alter the black tail-end midway through the cut so it would come together better.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Put me in the camp that thinks the Tigers pennant is genuine and unaltered.

Although I understand the temptation for unscrupulous sellers to doctor their collectibles, when it comes to pennants, I think that occurs far less frequently than we all think. The earliest pennants, say from ca. 1910s, were mostly hand made. The felt was cut by hand with scissors using crude templates; then sewn together at lightning speed by a seamstress using a sewing machine. There was variation from one pennant to the next.

For those makers that screen printed their pennants, you saw similar inconsistencies. Sometimes the stencil carrier was in perfect register; and sometimes, not so much. When secondary colors were applied using an airbrush, you saw even more variations. Nobody really cared about quality control, so most of these "inferior" products were sold with the very best of their stock.

For instance, I often hear collectors ID a pennant's tip as doctored because the graphics don't quite line up with the center axis of the pennant. Sure, that's possible ... but more likely: the stencil was not in perfect register with the felt when they screened it. Having screen printed one or two pennants, I can tell you from experience this is really easy to do.

Blunted or squared tips? Yeah, the consumer could've caused this; but, just as likely the pennant left the factory that way on account of the screen printer placing their stencil too close to the edge of the felt roll.

With this Tigers pennant, note that it's of two-piece construction. That means the felt cutter had to get the top and bottom slope/angles of both pieces just right for the pennant to fit correctly. I think he/she may have missed the mark on one piece is all. If I had to guess, he/she cut the orange head-end too short; then tried to alter the black tail-end midway through the cut so it would come together better.

Well, whether the original felt cutter did it, or a one-time owner, the jagged cut is atypical for this series. These were very well made for their time, and I have never seen another example that fell so far short in terms of missing felt.

[UKCardGuy]

Thanks Kyle. That's great info.

[vintagesportflips]

Hey everybody,
It’s been a while since I posted in this thread, mainly because it’s been a while since I added any Eagles pennants to my collection. However a couple months ago I started a YouTube channel of picking sports memorabilia/ antiques etc at flea markets and elsewhere. My newer video deals with a massive 30,000 pennant collection a buddy and I recently purchased. Unfortunately there’s not much in the way of early baseball or football pennants in the group, but I’ve only looked through about 10% so far. These are mostly organized by state and there are some sports and college mixed in these boxes too, so time will tell if any hidden gems are in there. The stuff I show in the video are mainly sports only boxes though. Just figured some of you might enjoy looking at the collection.

https://youtu.be/UMq9Cqn73GI

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by kjjavic

Hey everybody,
It’s been a while since I posted in this thread, mainly because it’s been a while since I added any Eagles pennants to my collection. However a couple months ago I started a YouTube channel of picking sports memorabilia/ antiques etc at flea markets and elsewhere. My newer video deals with a massive 30,000 pennant collection a buddy and I recently purchased. Unfortunately there’s not much in the way of early baseball or football pennants in the group, but I’ve only looked through about 10% so far. These are mostly organized by state and there are some sports and college mixed in these boxes too, so time will tell if any hidden gems are in there. The stuff I show in the video are mainly sports only boxes though. Just figured some of you might enjoy looking at the collection.

https://youtu.be/UMq9Cqn73GI

Wow!

I'm having trouble finding your ebay store. Can you provide a link?

[vintagesportflips]

Here you go: https://www.ebay.com/str/antiquesportsshop

A link should be in the description of the YouTube video to my and my buddy’s accounts I believe as well.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by kjjavic

Here you go: https://www.ebay.com/str/antiquesportsshop

A link should be in the description of the YouTube video to my and my buddy’s accounts I believe as well.

Got it. Thanks! I gotta see if you have any Giants minor league….and hope I can beat bocca to anything good!

[Duluth Eskimo]

Wow Keith, 30,000 pennants. I get intimidated when I have to list 40 items. Crazy. Also, you kind of went to the top of the pack with your own YouTube pennant channel. Kudos to you. Take care, Jason

[vintagesportflips]

Thanks Jason. The YouTube channel has been a fun project for me although I had zero video editing experience so it was a pretty steep learning curve and the editing is pretty time consuming. I’ve enjoyed it though.

[Fballguy]

Has anyone besides me felt the pinch of the USPS $15 surcharge? The old lunch ladies at my PO won't let anything get passed them but I keep receiving flat packages with no surcharge applied. Haven't really noticed an increase to shipping charges from sellers either. Anyone else noticing any impact from this?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Has anyone besides me felt the pinch of the USPS $15 surcharge? The old lunch ladies at my PO won't let anything get passed them but I keep receiving flat packages with no surcharge applied. Haven't really noticed an increase to shipping charges from sellers either. Anyone else noticing any impact from this?

The "old lunch ladies".... genius! Somehow these same ladies manage to work at my PO as well. I was scared off by the surcharge, so haven't even sent the last few flat. I've packed the stiffer pennants curved within the inner perimeter of a smaller box, and packaged the really soft ones gently rolled.

But I am also eager to hear if anyone has yet encountered the surcharge for flat shipping.

[ooo-ribay]

I used to have an old lunch lady at my Vegas PO. Actually, my wife and I called her “Creepy Lady.” God forbid you would ask for Media Mail. If you did, you were in for an inquisition!

[vintagesportflips]

I haven't encountered the surcharge yet personally, unless my shipping software is is charging my account after the fact, which has happened before. I know my buddy took his flat packages to the post office and they didn't charge him the surcharge either. I try to lightly roll pennants in a 12 by 6 by 6 box when at all possible, and generally only ship higher dollar or very rigid pennants flat.

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by perezfan

The "old lunch ladies".... genius! Somehow these same ladies manage to work at my PO as well. I was scared off by the surcharge, so haven't even sent the last few flat. I've packed the stiffer pennants curved within the inner perimeter of a smaller box, and packaged the really soft ones gently rolled.

But I am also eager to hear if anyone has yet encountered the surcharge for flat shipping.

I live just outside Omaha, and our small town post office said they had to charge me to surcharge when the policy change took effect. So, I started to go into Omaha to mail…I avoided the charge two times but today they tried to slap it on. I ended up not mailing them. It seems silly that these things way next to nothing, yet we are being charged +$15 to mail. I feel there should be a weight consideration too and plan to write somebody at the PO about it.

I may do what Keith suggests for mailing

[Lou Criscione]

We were offered this red Sox pennant and wanted to see if you guys have any thoughts about it. It's a 3/4 size pennant about 22.5" long. i don't see it in the pennant guide book. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Lou

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by erikc21

I feel there should be a weight consideration too and plan to write somebody at the PO about it.

attn: Louis DeJoy

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Lou Criscione

We were offered this red Sox pennant and wanted to see if you guys have any thoughts about it. It's a 3/4 size pennant about 22.5" long. i don't see it in the pennant guide book. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Lou

Hi Lou!

Can you post some bigger/more detailed pics? Tough to tell from that image whether it's a repro or authentic. A few close-ups of the graphics would help a lot in determining authenticity.

Thanks!

[Lou Criscione]

Here's a couple of more pics.

[Lou Criscione]

I forgot- he also has this pennant I've never seen before.

[UKCardGuy]

Others on here will be more qualified to comment on the veracity of the pennants but I hope they're legit....they look great!

[perezfan]

Heck yeah....

Both look legit to me, with each one being quite unique in its own way. A couple of great finds!

Is the Athletics pennant 3/4 size as well?

[Lou Criscione]

Yes-the Athletics pennant is 3/4 size too.

[Fballguy]

I feel like I've seen the Athletics before, but not the Red Sox. Both very cool.

[Jgwrestlng8]

I have been collecting pennants for 25 plus years with my father. My brother and I have put some of our collection onto canvas. If you are interested in one our site is feltcollectibles.com

Thanks,

Jordan

[Domer05]

Wow, Jordan. Your products look awesome. And, your collection's pretty impressive, too.

At first I was horrified, as I thought you had stitched all these beautiful pennants together to form a blanket or something, like they did in the old days

Then I zoomed in and realized no pennants were harmed in the making of your products.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Jgwrestlng8

I have been collecting pennants for 25 plus years with my father. My brother and I have put some of our collection onto canvas. If you are interested in one our site is feltcollectibles.com

Thanks,

Jordan

Jordan,
You have an incredible collection. Some of those non baseball pennants you have are incredibly rare. You have a great eye. I really like what you guys did with the prints as well. Very well done.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Lou Criscione

Yes-the Athletics pennant is 3/4 size too.

Lou,
I also believe I have seen the A’s pennant before quite a while ago. I have never seen the Red Sox version. Both should be a major hit, but that Red Sox could really go crazy.

[thetahat]

Okay fellas … authentic (as advertised) or reproduction?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29501092977...2&LH_Auction=1