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  #1  
Old 02-11-2008, 08:14 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Frank Evanov

They say there's no such thing as bad publicity, but I don't think this is good for SGC [or GAI]. A full page blast from a major newspaper:





Frank

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  #2  
Old 02-11-2008, 08:19 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Matt

Is it just me or does this not make sense to anyone else:

"Since the highest rating would look like a conflict of interest, Haas said, he turned to longtime friend David Forman, president of SGC, to determine whether the flaws could be fixed without hurting its authentication."

How does it logically follow that due to a conflict of interest, he needs to have flaws removed from the card?

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  #3  
Old 02-11-2008, 08:24 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Steve Murray

If the comments regarding "restoration" can be attributed to James Haas and not to sloppy reporting I think SGC/Forman should sue.

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  #4  
Old 02-11-2008, 08:32 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Gene Palmer

I agree with Matt, it makes no sense. It's sour grapes from Hass that SGC only gave it a 9 after his company called it a 10. Seems to me like the one being held "Haas"tage here is SGC.

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  #5  
Old 02-11-2008, 08:39 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Anonymous

Funny that Haas needed SGC to grade his card so that he wouldn't be accused of self-interest with regard to GAI's grade -- yet GAI, his company, is the only one that gave the card a 10. Gee, funny how that works. Perhaps he expected his 'old friend' to give him a 10, too and, when it didn't turn out that way he got angry. I can't blame Dave Forman for asking for a release before giving the card back.

I guess since I don't collect mint Mantle cards I can't fully understand the Captain Queeg-like obsession of getting this card into a 10 holder.

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  #6  
Old 02-11-2008, 08:52 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Frank Evanov

If the comments regarding "restoration" can be attributed to James Haas and not to sloppy reporting I think SGC/Forman should sue.


Absolutely; if he doesn't sue, I would view that as an indication that Haas is telling the truth. Then again, in a trial, Haas' attorneys might dredge up some of DF's previous exploits and that could get messy.


I guess since I don't collect mint Mantle cards I can't fully understand the Captain Queeg-like obsession of getting this card into a 10 holder.


Not obsession, dollars....the difference in value between a 9 and a 10 is at least $500,000!!

Frank

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  #7  
Old 02-11-2008, 09:47 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Dan Bretta

What are Dave Foreman's alleged previous exploits?

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  #8  
Old 02-11-2008, 10:29 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: E, Daniel

in terms of circulation and public perception, the larger the potential damages GAI faces in a likely lawsuit....if they weren't in financial straits before - they will certainly disappear and owe alot of people a ton of money should legal action eventuate.
If this were a plan to make SGC look bad to gain some market share back, it was a terrible idea.


Daniel

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  #9  
Old 02-11-2008, 10:51 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

If I had to guess, Haas is more concerned about his Mantle than GAI. After all, that one baseball card is worth a hell of a lot more than his entire stake in GAI.

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  #10  
Old 02-11-2008, 01:07 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Cobby33

No kidding.
So there's a perceived conflict when your own company grades your card, but there's no perceived conflict when an "old friend" grades it. Uh huh.
Guess it turned out the way it was supposed to.

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  #11  
Old 02-11-2008, 06:43 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: James Gallo

Did anyone else notice that the caption under Forman's picture calls him an appraiser?

Who are these reporters talking to...

They seem to spell out what SGC does in the article, but come on people get your damn facts straight.

Honestly IMO I don't see any problems with what I have read in regards to SGC actions.

I would like to hear more about Formans past though....

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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  #12  
Old 02-11-2008, 06:53 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Rob Dewolf

James,

Being in the newspaper business, I can tell you that the person who writes the story and the person who writes the captions for photos (along with headlines) are almost always two different people. Not that that's an excuse for getting this wrong, and it seems that both the reporter and copy editors involved in the packaging of this story dropped the ball more than once. Just wanted to point out that a reporter can get everything 100 percent right and then have a copy editor make him or her look stupid.

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  #13  
Old 02-11-2008, 06:58 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: JimCrandell

David was president of Teletrade which ran massive ads in SCD for a while. Prior to that he was a NY dealer who did auctions and shows alone and with NY dealers Gary Moser and Gerry Schwartz--two guys with an impeccable reputation

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  #14  
Old 02-11-2008, 07:21 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Frank Evanov

The name Moser sounds familiar.

Frank

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  #15  
Old 02-11-2008, 07:24 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I think I gave my first ebay neg to him.....

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  #16  
Old 02-11-2008, 07:27 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

im·pec·ca·ble Pronunciation[im-pek-uh-buhl] –adjective 1. faultless; flawless; irreproachable: impeccable manners.
2. not liable to sin; incapable of sin.

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  #17  
Old 02-12-2008, 05:33 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Richard S. Simon

Frank - please refrain from calling the NY Post a major newspaper. Those of us in New York know that it is the farthest thing from that. .
Maybe they got this story straight, but the paper is a rag, with free copies frequently available from street corners.
--

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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  #18  
Old 02-12-2008, 05:54 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: JimCrandell

I like the Post and read it every day--have never seen it for free.

I believe the Post now has ca greater circulation than any other paper in the NYC area including the Times.

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  #19  
Old 02-12-2008, 06:19 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Richard S. Simon

To each his own,,, I see it fairly often, on the East Side, with kids on street corners giving it away for free in what I believe is a desperate effort by Rupert Murdoch to increase "circulation".
The New York Post is last in circulation in NYC.
NYTimes - 1.1 million
Daily News - 795,000
NY Post - 650,000
(figures according to Wikipedia)
--

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
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We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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  #20  
Old 02-12-2008, 07:16 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Frank Evanov

The Post's circulation is not the issue. The problem here is that a half a million people [probably a lot more] read about a shady incident which makes the Hobby look bad. Not a good way to attract new blood.

Frank

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  #21  
Old 02-12-2008, 07:29 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Steve

I have never seen the Post for free and 'wikipedia' can be written by anyone, prolly some Times guy wrote that info.


Steve

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  #22  
Old 02-12-2008, 07:31 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: JimCrandell

The circulation I was referring to is in NYC only. The Times is a "National" newspaper and gets a lot of its circulation from outside NYC.

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  #23  
Old 02-12-2008, 07:40 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: John Basilone


FWIW...the New York Post is available for sale at a supermarket I frequent in the Cleveland, Ohio area.

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  #24  
Old 02-12-2008, 08:26 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Rich Klein

I forgot that I had a copy that used to be mailed to me at Beckett, but you can be put on an e-mailing list to recieve the NY Post and that is a free service. I also get the Daily News and NY Times highlights emailed to me for free as well.

Regards
Rich

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  #25  
Old 02-12-2008, 08:33 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Jeff Shepherd

I've seen stacks of either the Post or Daily News for free on 14th Street - they give it out to subway riders and pedestrians along with AM New York and the Metro. Not really the issue here, just validating the fact.

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  #26  
Old 02-12-2008, 10:33 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: MVSNYC

FWIW, they give away the New York Post & Daily News for free on 34th st, hearld square, everyday...

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  #27  
Old 02-12-2008, 10:58 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: garymoser

frank since you like to mention my name on the board so much. why not give me profit on all the cards you bought from me that you are selling on ebay . include 1957 topps mint commons that i sold you for $10 probable ungraded that you are selling for thousands . if you mention my name again beinning such a close friend i will be happy to come to your office and we can reminisce about the good old days before third party gradeing . best regards gary moser. love to here from you soon.
leon,
are there any tickets available to 54 dinner at the national.

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  #28  
Old 02-12-2008, 11:12 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: JimCrandell

Wow--Gary Moser.

Welcome Gary--first time I have seen you post on Net54.

Since wwe have got you here Gary, care to give your views on the state of the hobby today?

Jim

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  #29  
Old 02-12-2008, 11:17 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: leon

Welcome to the board.....There are no tickets to the Net54 dinner...except drink tickets when you get there....It's open to all members of Net54 Vintage Baseball Card Forum....which would include you. As the time approaches I will post a thread to take RSVP's for the dinner. (probably a month or so before the National) It's imperative that whoever wants to attend RSVP. There is a great chance that folks who don't RSVP won't be allowed to come to it....Everyone that RSVP'd last year was able to attend....and I think a good time was had by all. I will issue a small word of caution though....Anyone coming there to not have a good time, or get into arguments, is not welcome. I will have Charlie B and his big friend (I forget his name) get my back .....best regards

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  #30  
Old 02-12-2008, 01:14 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Marc S.

welcome to Net 54.

Speaking of thousands of dollars made, you sold me a large number of high-grade GAI 1955 Bowman baseball cards that were independently verified later as having been trimmed, re-glossed, or a combination of both. Are you planning on letting us all in on the secrets as to how you managed to perpetrate these alterations and get them past a professional grading company?

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  #31  
Old 02-12-2008, 01:39 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Kevin Saucier


ah yes...the 55 Bowman's.

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  #32  
Old 02-12-2008, 02:13 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: JimCrandell

Oh Oh--I'm afraid that will be a conversation ender. Unless I'm wrong this could go down as the shortest visit ever to Net 54. Well, maybe Gary will still come to the dinner.

Don't be scared away Gary--you can answer just the questions you want to.

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  #33  
Old 02-12-2008, 02:56 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: garymoser

you caught me on the 1955 bowmans i split the money with mike , let me now where to send the refund checks too. will be also refund any psa graded problems . simple send your list .
anything else ??

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  #34  
Old 02-12-2008, 03:04 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: garymoser

jim,
the hobby is in great shape jim . collectors like yourself make the industry a pleasure to be in .
then off course we have a small % of experts out there , the all seeing all knowing group . can't wait for them to open ther own grading companys and fix the hobby . sgc and psa better be careful
they could loss market share very quickly .

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  #35  
Old 02-12-2008, 03:18 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: JimCrandell

Thank you Gary.
As collectors Gary, how much can we trust the grading services.
We hear stories about card doctors and successfully getting altered cards through the grading services. You have been around the hobby a long time--is card alteration something we should be concerned about--even if the card is graded?

Jim

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  #36  
Old 02-12-2008, 03:52 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Rob Dewolf

I went to a vintage baseball card forum and a Larry King interview broke out.

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  #37  
Old 02-12-2008, 04:26 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: JimCrandell

Rob,

Its not often you get a Gary Moser visiting your board--you have to be opportunistic.

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  #38  
Old 02-12-2008, 04:56 PM
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Posted By: JimB

Why the warm welcome to someone whose first post here is a thinly veiled threat of violence?
JimB

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  #39  
Old 02-12-2008, 05:02 PM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

He's really a teddy bear--don't worry.

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  #40  
Old 02-12-2008, 05:04 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Gary, what do you mean "you caught me on the 1955 bowmans i split the money with mike"?

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  #41  
Old 02-12-2008, 05:22 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Dan Bretta

Jeff, Jim told Gary he doesn't have to answer any questions he doesn't want to.

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  #42  
Old 02-12-2008, 05:29 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Well, it's Gary's statement so I'm sure he'd want to clarify what he meant. Such an innocuous statement and all...

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  #43  
Old 02-12-2008, 05:45 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Rob Dewolf

Jeff,

I'm pretty sure that if you're not going to lob softballs, you won't be allowed to play the game. <searching for smiley face key>

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  #44  
Old 02-12-2008, 07:03 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: JimCrandell

You can throw whatever pitches you want. Gary has a lot of knowledge and the board would benefit from what he says--I just think he is unlikely to be responsive to the fastball under the chin.

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  #45  
Old 02-12-2008, 07:09 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim, it's Gary's own words. I don't know of any pitcher who can throw himself a fastball under his own chin.

Maybe Gary's visiting Frank now and he just doesn't have time to respond.

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  #46  
Old 02-12-2008, 07:20 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: JimCrandell

Jeff--agree---my comment was a more general one.

You never know--Gary might have some good stories about the good old days with Gerry and Dave he might want to share.

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  #47  
Old 02-12-2008, 09:41 PM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: garymoser

jim,
don't have time to respond to every so called grading expert that has an so called o-----. i submit my cards to third party grading and allow the market to determine value. i was one of the first dealers to send my cards out and allowed a third party to determine grade ( creases count ). only been doing this for 15+ years maybe these individual have some knowledge about cards i am missing , lets call that a long shot. i wish them all lots of luck buying ungraded cards .
i responding to an individual that made money from cards i sold him over the years . i never threaten anyone, i simple respond to statements when my name is brought up for no reason .
on a side not !!!in my view david forman is one of they most respected guys in the hobby. in his short lifetime he has forgotten more about cards then 90% off the people on this board has ever had. these industry experts like to mention david a lot i have heard.
jim, as always if i can ever been of any help please don't hesitate to contact me.
will be happy to share my limited knowledge.
gary

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  #48  
Old 02-13-2008, 06:11 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim B, do you have the Rosetta Stone handy to help decipher some of that?

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  #49  
Old 02-13-2008, 07:00 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Steve

Gary

if you could, what about the 55 Bowmans?

And if you have the time what about all the ebay auctions you win, then we see the same card listed that appears in better shape? Can you explain any of that?




and......FWIW, they give away the New York Post & Daily News for free on 34th st, hearld square, everyday...


Dang i better drive down there and save 50 cents a day.


Steve

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  #50  
Old 02-13-2008, 07:08 AM
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Default NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

"frank since you like to mention my name on the board so much. ... if you mention my name again beinning such a close friend i will be happy to come to your office and we can reminisce about the good old days before third party gradeing."

Gary, three Ns in 'being'? Two Is? Sounds like you mean business.

Has anyone heard from Frank?

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