Counting Down The 10 Most Iconic Sports Cards of Alltime Video - Thoughts

[nwobhm]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The 89 UD Griffey ushered in and is the symbol of the modern high end card.

We apparently lived opposite lives in this hobby in the late 80’s. I remember near zero talk among collectors of the Griffey…. Jordan was like a tsunami. Gretsky, Montana, Jordan…. Clemons, Puckett, Gooden from the update were all the rage… FF Ripken was also always in the conversation. Everyone wanted the 84’ Donruss factory sets too. IDK…..Maybe it was a regional thing.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by nwobhm

We apparently lived opposite lives in this hobby in the late 80’s. I remember near zero talk among collectors of the Griffey…. Jordan was like a tsunami. Gretsky, Montana, Jordan…. Clemons, Puckett, Gooden from the update were all the rage… FF Ripken was also always in the conversation. Everyone wanted the 84’ Donruss factory sets too. IDK…..Maybe it was a regional thing.

It definitely was not a regional thing. I was setting up at shows across the country and it was all about the 1986 Fleer Jordan RC and 1986 Fleer basketball in 1989/90.

The Upper Deck Griffey was the new speculation in 1989, but many in the hobby were uncertain of Upper Decks future. It took a while for the Griffey to catch on, but by then Jordan was king of the hobby.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by nwobhm

We apparently lived opposite lives in this hobby in the late 80’s. I remember near zero talk among collectors of the Griffey…. Jordan was like a tsunami. Gretsky, Montana, Jordan…. Clemons, Puckett, Gooden from the update were all the rage… FF Ripken was also always in the conversation. Everyone wanted the 84’ Donruss factory sets too. IDK…..Maybe it was a regional thing.

Were you in Chicago? If Jordan was such a tsunami in the card world, why did Fleer's basketball offerings basically flop? The Griffey was everywhere - that's why UD printed more of it.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Were you in Chicago? If Jordan was such a tsunami in the card world, why did Fleer's basketball offerings basically flop? The Griffey was everywhere - that's why UD printed more of it.

Jordan was a tsunami in 1988-1989. Fleer's basketball offerings didn't flop. They were a good seller, similar to Topps Football and Hockey products of the time and Fleer kept making them.

Upper Deck Griffeys were everywhere in 1989 because that is all that Upper Deck had and as it was a brand new company, they were going to milk it. The 1989 Griffey was just that year's popular rookie and it was only popular until Upper Deck made their high series. Then everyone wanted Jerome Walton. The card everyone really wanted was the 1986 Donruss Jose Canseco. 1988 MVP, 1st 40/40 player, 3x AL Champion 1988-1990, 1989 World Series Champion.

[Exhibitman]

T206 Wagner
1952 Topps Mantle
1986 F Jordan
1980-81 Magic-Bird
1979-80 Gretzky
1989 UD Griffey
1957 T Russell
1965 T Namath
1966 T Orr
1993 UD Jeter

FWIW, I think Brady and LeBron and Trout are hurt by the sheer variety of RCs they have.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

T206 Wagner
1952 Topps Mantle
1986 F Jordan
1980-81 Magic-Bird
1979-80 Gretzky
1989 UD Griffey
1957 T Russell
1965 T Namath
1966 T Orr
1993 UD Jeter

FWIW, I think Brady and LeBron and Trout are hurt by the sheer variety of RCs they have.

I like this list a lot, but two hockey cards in the top 10? Dunno ahoout that. I'd also bet Alcindor is more widely collected and known than Russ.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I like this list a lot, but two hockey cards in the top 10? Dunno ahoout that. I'd also bet Alcindor is more widely collected and known than Russ.

Prices do not bear that out. Russell is far more costly grade for grade. I got a fair Russell for $700 and was thrilled.

On hockey, Gretzky is the card to get. For a 1980 card, even a low grade one goes into three figures, which is akin to the 1986 Fleer MJ. I put in Orr because that is the vintage hockey card. I can see the argument for replacing him with someone else but who? Maybe Brady or LeBron?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Prices do not bear that out. Russell is far more costly grade for grade. I got a fair Russell for $700 and was thrilled.

On hockey, Gretzky is the card to get. For a 1980 card, even a low grade one goes into three figures, which is akin to the 1986 Fleer MJ. I put in Orr because that is the vintage hockey card. I can see the argument for replacing him with someone else but who? Maybe Brady or LeBron?

If price is going to be your guidepost then that calls for a completely different list, no?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by rats60

Jordan was a tsunami in 1988-1989. Fleer's basketball offerings didn't flop. They were a good seller, similar to Topps Football and Hockey products of the time and Fleer kept making them.

Topps Hockey was a good seller? No way. Fleer's sets flopped. Or have we forgotten all the stories of Fleer's boxes selling for $5?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Topps Hockey was a good seller? No way. Fleer's sets flopped. Or have we forgotten all the stories of Fleer's boxes selling for $5?

Oh, I will never, ever forget that! I was living in SF at the time in school and I went to some local card shows. One show in 1987 or 1988, this guy had an entire table of unopened 1986 Fleer basketball and tons of singles and I remember looking it over and thinking "who'd want that crap?"

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Were you in Chicago? If Jordan was such a tsunami in the card world, why did Fleer's basketball offerings basically flop? The Griffey was everywhere - that's why UD printed more of it.

In my experience, since the day it was released, the UD Griffey has been an instantly recognizable and consistently popular card, synonymous with the modern hobby. I don't think it was supplanted by anything.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In my experience, since the day it was released, the UD Griffey has been an instantly recognizable and consistently popular card, synonymous with the modern hobby. I don't think it was supplanted by anything.

I guess that is why in the fall of 1989, Griffey was the 5th best rookie in the set behind Jerome Walton, Dwight Smith, Jim Abbott and Todd Zeile.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by rats60

I guess that is why in the fall of 1989, Griffey was the 5th best rookie in the set behind Jerome Walton, Dwight Smith, Jim Abbott and Todd Zeile.

Griffey Jr. had been the top pick in the draft in '87 and was the son of a famous baseball player. There was a ton of hype surrounding Griffey Jr., who had just graduated high school.

By putting Griffey Jr. as the #1 card in their first set, UD took a huge gamble that paid off (Topps failed to even include Griffey Jr. in their base '89 set). The card would become the the most-graded card ever (more than 90K just by PSA alone).

The '89 UD had five new innovations: 1) foil-wrapped 2) tamper-evident pack 3) high gloss cards on high quality white paper stock 4) images on both sides
5) a hologram. These cards completely revolutionized the somewhat stale baseball card market, and the '89 UD Griffey Jr. was the poster child of this new era.

The card is a part of pop culture. Griffey Jr. re-enacted the card's pose in a Macklemore's "Downton" video: https://youtu.be/JGhoLcsr8GA?t=104

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

I guess that is why in the fall of 1989, Griffey was the 5th best rookie in the set behind Jerome Walton, Dwight Smith, Jim Abbott and Todd Zeile.

92,000 Griffeys have been graded by PSA as we speak. 22,000 Jordans. I haven't checked Jerome Walton yet.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

92,000 Griffeys have been graded by PSA as we speak. 22,000 Jordans. I haven't checked Jerome Walton yet.

I guess we just have a different memory. After the release of 1989 UD High Series, I can't remember a time where the UD Griffey was the card to have. In 1990 it was Leaf and Frank Thomas, David Justice, and Steve Avery. In 1991 it was Stadium Club. In 1992 it was inserts led by the Frank Thomas Rookie Sensations. In 1993 it was Finest Refractors, especially Ripken and Ryan. In 1994 it was the Red Holoview Die Cuts, especially the A Rod and then the baseball strike happened and the hobby died. Most that kept collecting switched to basketball and that is why Jordan is king of modern followed by Kobe and LeBron.

More Griffeys have been graded because Upper Deck ran the presses in 1989, pumping out as many cards as they could. The Topps Traded, Donruss and Fleer Griffey RCs are also among the most graded cards of all time. It was a matter of production numbers. By the way the 1990 Fleer base Michael Jordan is on the list too. Is that more iconic than his Fleer RC?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by rats60

I guess that is why in the fall of 1989, Griffey was the 5th best rookie in the set behind Jerome Walton, Dwight Smith, Jim Abbott and Todd Zeile.

Maybe this is a regional thing? I don't know. But there was never even a moment where the 89 UD Griffey was not the #1 card to own since even before it was released where I grew up. Not just in 1989 either. For years and years thereafter. It was still THE card. I was in card shops almost daily around this time. I had no clue who Jerome Walton or Dwight Smith were. Zero people were collecting those players among my group of friends.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Maybe this is a regional thing? I don't know. But there was never even a moment where the 89 UD Griffey was not the #1 card to own since even before it was released where I grew up. Not just in 1989 either. For years and years thereafter. It was still THE card. I was in card shops almost daily around this time. I had no clue who Jerome Walton or Dwight Smith were. Zero people were collecting those players among my group of friends.

Griffey was the guy to get and it wasn’t close.

[cardsagain74]

Rats' recollection of the '89 UD debate here is much more accurate than anyone else's. Anyone who doesn't doesn't agree with how hot the Jerome Walton was in mid-late '89 either has an awful memory (or wasn't involved in the heart of the junk wax era, in any "region")

I have a July 1990 Beckett in front of me right now. This was well after the '89 UD Ext Zeile, Jim Abbott, and Walton had really cooled off. Prices:

Griffey: up to 18.00, Abbott down to 7.00, and Walton down to 7.50, and Zeile down to 6.50.

So for those who don't remember, the proof is there (about how those cards were on a similar level in months prior). I may see if I can find another Beckett from late '89 and compare more

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Maybe this is a regional thing? I don't know. But there was never even a moment where the 89 UD Griffey was not the #1 card to own since even before it was released where I grew up. Not just in 1989 either. For years and years thereafter. It was still THE card. I was in card shops almost daily around this time. I had no clue who Jerome Walton or Dwight Smith were. Zero people were collecting those players among my group of friends.

It definitely wasn't a regional thing. Jerome Walton was $15, Dwight Smith was $12, Jim Abbott was $12 and Todd Zeile was $10. Griffey was only $8 and wasn't selling. Upper Deck was running the presses making those little boxed high number sets, not Griffeys then. I was breaking them and travelling to shows across the country. That is all modern collectors wanted, the high number rookie cards and Nolan Ryan in a Rangers uniform throwing the football.

If you didn't know who Jerome Walton and Dwight Smith were, you must not have been following baseball in 1989. Jerome Walton was NL Rookie of the Year. Dwight Smith finished 2nd. They were the 2 rookies that led the Cubs to the NL East Championship and the NLCS. They were the hottest rookies in baseball, not the guy who led his team to 6th place in the AL West and finished 3rd in AL ROY voting. I guess if you and your friends didn't watch postseason games, watch ESPN Sports Center or read the sports section of any major newspaper, you may not know who the hot rookies in 1989 really were.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by rats60

It definitely wasn't a regional thing. Jerome Walton was $15, Dwight Smith was $12, Jim Abbott was $12 and Todd Zeile was $10. Griffey was only $8 and wasn't selling. Upper Deck was running the presses making those little boxed high number sets, not Griffeys then. I was breaking them and travelling to shows across the country. That is all modern collectors wanted, the high number rookie cards and Nolan Ryan in a Rangers uniform throwing the football.

If you didn't know who Jerome Walton and Dwight Smith were, you must not have been following baseball in 1989. Jerome Walton was NL Rookie of the Year. Dwight Smith finished 2nd. They were the 2 rookies that led the Cubs to the NL East Championship and the NLCS. They were the hottest rookies in baseball, not the guy who led his team to 6th place in the AL West and finished 3rd in AL ROY voting. I guess if you and your friends didn't watch postseason games, watch ESPN Sports Center or read the sports section of any major newspaper, you may not know who the hot rookies in 1989 really were.

I am not entirely sure where are you going with this. Is your angle that because Griffey Jr. didn't win ROY and may not have been the most valuable card in the set at the time, that his UD Rookie card is not iconic?

We are talking about what is the most iconic (widely recognized/famous/historical) cards in the present day, not in 1989.

Griffey Jr's UD Rookie is the posterchild of a new type of sports card--the ultra high end/luxury brand card. That is what the kids like these days--shiny, fancy cards. One could make the case that the '89 UD set paved the way toward the current way modern sports cards are made.

Griffey Jr. was the 1st card in the set, is the most graded card ever, and is part of pop culture.