ebay's authentication service - looking at more than just authenticity

[Cmvorce]

I recently purchased a raw T206 card on ebay that was sent through to their authentication service. This morning I received a call and email from ebay letting me know that the card did indeed come back as authentic, however, there was slight paper loss on the back of the card that was not visible in the seller's listing photos. Ebay informed me, through their authenticator, that this paper loss would not impact the grade of the card if I were to submit for grading, but they were giving me the option of either proceeding with the purchase, or canceling the order for a full refund.

So, the service doesn't seem to be looking at authenticity alone; they are now commenting on condition as well, and allowing buyers to cancel purchases if something comes up that may not have been obvious in the listing.

I just think it's an interesting development, and hadn't seen it before.

PS - I thanked them for their diligence and proceeded with the purchase.

[G1911]

That’s how it’s supposed to work for the raw card version, they advertised it as checking against the accuracy of the listing.

[cgjackson222]

That is super-interesting, and I think it is a valuable service ebay is providing.

This would give me more confidence in purchasing from a seller that has a "No Returns" policy.

I was under the impression that the only thing ebay had been doing was verifying the accuracy of the listing's title/description and then sending the card off to verify it's authenticity. I didn't realize they were also checking to see if the listing's title/description OMITTED anything important, such as a defect that was not shown in the pictures.

[Cmvorce]

Originally Posted by G1911

That’s how it’s supposed to work for the raw card version, they advertised it as checking against the accuracy of the listing.

I was not aware of that - I’m a fan.

[raulus]

That is definitely interesting.

I recently purchased a card graded by SGC that went through the eBay authentication process. When it got to the 3rd party, they noticed that the case had popped open, although the card was undamaged. They gave me the option of proceeding with the purchase, or rejecting it.

I also recently sold 2 PSA graded cards on eBay in 2 separate transactions, within 24 hours of one another. One for $3k, and another for $1.95k. The one for $1.95k was a tallboy case, and went to the authenticator. The one for $3k was a jumbo case, and didn't go to the authenticator. Not sure if the size made a difference, or if there were other features that caused one to go through the authentication process, and the other to skip it. Obviously it wasn't the price that drove the different outcomes.

Personally, as a seller, I would have preferred that they both go through authentication, just to avoid having the possibility of the buyer claiming that they never got their item, or that there was something wrong with it.

[jamest206]

I am still waiting for a month on a payment from eBay for 2k, since they needed to authenticate me. Never mind I have been able to still purchase and bid, and pay within 12 hours of winning. So finally, after three attempts, was told needed to show license, and copies of receipts and invoices to people that purchased from me last month. Sent a front and back of drivers license, as well as screen shots of information off my iPad of everything they wanted, per what they told me. We will see if I get my money they have sat on for a month as of today, in the next few days. Glad they are actually doing some work on their end finally, but need to still step their game up for those of us who make them money.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by jamest206

I am still waiting for a month on a payment from eBay for 2k, since they needed to authenticate me. Never mind I have been able to still purchase and bid, and pay within 12 hours of winning. So finally, after three attempts, was told needed to show license, and copies of receipts and invoices to people that purchased from me last month. Sent a front and back of drivers license, as well as screen shots of information off my iPad of everything they wanted, per what they told me. We will see if I get my money they have sat on for a month as of today, in the next few days. Glad they are actually doing some work on their end finally, but need to still step their game up for those of us who make them money.

Is this your first eBay sale? Have you been on the platform long? Have you been buying for years?

I did find that when I made my first major sale of $10k+, eBay held onto my cash for a while until the buyer got the item. But that only lasted for a few days, and definitely not for a whole month.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Cmvorce

I was not aware of that - I’m a fan.

I agree I actually like that

Good info and thanks for sharing

[ullmandds]

i'm still a little confused about ebay's service. I've purchased 2 cards last few months that I expected to go through the service...but did not. I'd much rather have raw cards evaluated as compared to cards already graded?

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i'm still a little confused about ebay's service. I've purchased 2 cards last few months that I expected to go through the service...but did not. I'd much rather have raw cards evaluated as compared to cards already graded?

Peter,

Were they listed in the proper category (single cards)?

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i'm still a little confused about ebay's service. I've purchased 2 cards last few months that I expected to go through the service...but did not. I'd much rather have raw cards evaluated as compared to cards already graded?

There are ways for sellers to get around the authentication process, putting the word "set" in the title is one way.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Jim65

There are ways for sellers to get around the authentication process, putting the word "set" in the title is one way.

i'm aware of that one...this one...I have no idea?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204103574919

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i'm aware of that one...this one...I have no idea?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204103574919

That's simple. It didn't sell for over $250. No authentication program required for items under this dollar amount.

[jamest206]

Originally Posted by raulus

Is this your first eBay sale? Have you been on the platform long? Have you been buying for years?

I did find that when I made my first major sale of $10k+, eBay held onto my cash for a while until the buyer got the item. But that only lasted for a few days, and definitely not for a whole month.

No, I have been selling for a couple years, and buying. This sale was of individual items, none individually sold for over $300. I sold earlier this year as well. So the amount, after taxes AND eBay skimming, is $1700.

If anyone else has this issue, after the third time doing a live chat, I finally got the simple answer I needed. eBay has some flaws they still need to work on.

They claim every seller is having to do this.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

That's simple. It didn't sell for over $250. No authentication program required for items under this dollar amount.

thx!

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

That is super-interesting, and I think it is a valuable service ebay is providing.

This would give me more confidence in purchasing from a seller that has a "No Returns" policy.

I was under the impression that the only thing ebay had been doing was verifying the accuracy of the listing's title/description and then sending the card off to verify it's authenticity. I didn't realize they were also checking to see if the listing's title/description OMITTED anything important, such as a defect that was not shown in the pictures.

Just to clarify, a "No returns" policy is not enforcible for a mistake in the listing issue. EBay will side with the buyer every time if that is what is claimed. Buyer's remorse can be impacted by no returns policies, but not listing errors. I am curious how buyer's remorse issues will be handled by the authentication process though.

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[BobC]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

That is super-interesting, and I think it is a valuable service ebay is providing.

This would give me more confidence in purchasing from a seller that has a "No Returns" policy.

I was under the impression that the only thing ebay had been doing was verifying the accuracy of the listing's title/description and then sending the card off to verify it's authenticity. I didn't realize they were also checking to see if the listing's title/description OMITTED anything important, such as a defect that was not shown in the pictures.

Maybe Ebay is in a sense verifying the accuracy of the listing's title/description by ensuring that there are no hidden errors or omissions being kept from the buyer. For example, showing just the front of a card and listing it as selling "as is", with no mention of back damage nor an image of the back included in the listing, is a definite (and likely intentional) inaccurate listing in my book. A seller not mentioning or showing such an obvious flaw, and then trying to hide behind the "as is" clause, is just the kind of crap I can see Ebay not wanting to get stuck in the middle of, or really wanting to be a party to. I can see Ebay giving money back to disgruntled buyers, and not always being able to get it back from the sellers due to their "as is" description and listing. The savings Ebay can thereby realize from such an authentication program may be one reason why they haven't needed to start charging for it.............yet.

[philliesfan]

Interesting for sure.

Also, I have questions about how this service works
.
If I sold a PSA or SGC card for $3,000.00, I have to send it to ebay for authentication.......correct?

Then ebay inspects all aspects of the card, slab tampering, label, item description in the listing including front and back scans for hidden damage and everything is perfect. Then they send the card to the buyer.....correct?

Now if the buyer wants to return the card, is it returned back to ebay for inspection to return back to the seller or does the buyer return directly to the seller? What if the card was switched by the buyer? How is that handled? I would not want to be on the hook especially if ebay handled and approved everything.

thanks,
Bob

[G1911]

Originally Posted by philliesfan

Interesting for sure.

Also, I have questions about how this service works
.
If I sold a PSA or SGC card for $3,000.00, I have to send it to ebay for authentication.......correct?

Then ebay inspects all aspects of the card, slab tampering, label, item description in the listing including front and back scans for hidden damage and everything is perfect. Then they send the card to the buyer.....correct?

Now if the buyer wants to return the card, is it returned back to ebay for inspection to return back to the seller or does the buyer return directly to the seller? What if the card was switched by the buyer? How is that handled? I would not want to be on the hook especially if ebay handled and approved everything.

thanks,
Bob

If the card is already graded, eBay has you send the card to PSA who then authenticates the slab. They do not look at the card at all in the already-graded version. If it passes, it is sent along to the buyer.

[steve B]

Nobody has a thought about the authenticator saying the paper loss won't affect the grade?
That seems wrong unless it was claimed to be a low grade to begin with.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by steve B

Nobody has a thought about the authenticator saying the paper loss won't affect the grade?
That seems wrong unless it was claimed to be a low grade to begin with.

I was assuming that it was in rough shape to begin with. Maybe a 1.0, or Authentic…

Certainly if it was otherwise in good shape, then stating that paper loss won’t affect the grade would be crazy.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by steve B

Nobody has a thought about the authenticator saying the paper loss won't affect the grade?
That seems wrong unless it was claimed to be a low grade to begin with.

What is there to say? The common sense answer is that it’s a low grade card regardless and there is nothing nefarious here.

[Exhibitman]

First of all, on a raw card it is CSG, not PSA.

Second, looking for undisclosed flaws is part of the service:

"Items that display the Authenticity Guarantee badge in the listing are first shipped to an authenticator who inspects the item prior to delivery to the buyer. This inspection ensures that the item purchased matches the listing description and verifies the item's authenticity." [emphasis added]

An undisclosed paper loss that CSG spots will result in either a rejection or the choice outlined in the OP (which is a new one to me and, frankly, I like it). This is because...

Third, a no returns policy is enforceable with the AG service cards:

"For Authenticity Guarantee purchases, eBay Money Back Guarantee does not cover returns on the basis that an item is not as described, when the item is considered final sale."

Translation: if the seller lists it as a final sale with no returns and it passes the authentication process, the buyer owns it, period. The whole point of the service is to take away the buyer's remorse return option for sellers who do not want to accept returns.

If the item gets wrecked in the mail from the authenticator to the buyer, eBay handles the refund. The seller's delivery duty ends when the item reaches the authenticator intact. This is not new. If you sell under eBay's Global Shipping program, for example, your delivery is considered complete when it reaches the eBay shipping center.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by jamest206

No, I have been selling for a couple years, and buying. This sale was of individual items, none individually sold for over $300. I sold earlier this year as well. So the amount, after taxes AND eBay skimming, is $1700.

If anyone else has this issue, after the third time doing a live chat, I finally got the simple answer I needed. eBay has some flaws they still need to work on.

They claim every seller is having to do this.

One of the biggest flaws they need to work on is if you have your mail delivered to a PO box the item doesn't go through the process but the no return policy is still in affect so if there is something wrong with the item the buyer can't return it even though it didn't go through the process.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

First of all, on a raw card it is CSG, not PSA.

Second, looking for undisclosed flaws is part of the service:

"Items that display the Authenticity Guarantee badge in the listing are first shipped to an authenticator who inspects the item prior to delivery to the buyer. This inspection ensures that the item purchased matches the listing description and verifies the item's authenticity." [emphasis added]

An undisclosed paper loss that CSG spots will result in either a rejection or the choice outlined in the OP (which is a new one to me and, frankly, I like it). This is because...

Third, a no returns policy is enforceable with the AG service cards:

"For Authenticity Guarantee purchases, eBay Money Back Guarantee does not cover returns on the basis that an item is not as described, when the item is considered final sale."

Translation: if the seller lists it as a final sale with no returns and it passes the authentication process, the buyer owns it, period. The whole point of the service is to take away the buyer's remorse return option for sellers who do not want to accept returns.

If the item gets wrecked in the mail from the authenticator to the buyer, eBay handles the refund. The seller's delivery duty ends when the item reaches the authenticator intact. This is not new. If you sell under eBay's Global Shipping program, for example, your delivery is considered complete when it reaches the eBay shipping center.

Excellent points and post.

And in addition to taking away the buyer's remorse, it also takes away the not as listed/inaccurate description issue in cases where the flaws were never shown or described. Either way, it likely helps to complete sales and put more money into Ebay's pockets at the end of the day. And that is ultimately the only thing that Ebay really needs or wants this AG program to do I'm guessing.

[drcy]

They're checking if the card matches the sales description, which involves more than just authenticity.

[npa589]

I know what the policy says, but either the TPG is entirely and consistently incompetent, or they really are only checking for authenticity. For example, undisclosed trims are getting through the authentication process with ease.


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[Cmvorce]

Originally Posted by steve B

Nobody has a thought about the authenticator saying the paper loss won't affect the grade?
That seems wrong unless it was claimed to be a low grade to begin with.

Yep, low grade to begin with. I would expect it to grade a 1 with or without the paper loss. Doesn't matter to me - it's going right into my t206 binder!

[philo98]

Originally Posted by G1911

If the card is already graded, eBay has you send the card to PSA who then authenticates the slab. They do not look at the card at all in the already-graded version. If it passes, it is sent along to the buyer.

Im in this process for the 1st time for 2 cards authenticated by PSA and 1 by BGS. The sellers are located in VT and NY and it appears the cards are sent all the way to CA for authenticating. Im located in PA and they will then need to be sent back across the country. If Ebay is going to expand this service, it may make sense to open one authentication location on the East Coast, or even in the middle of the country to service all regions. Two of the cards were purchased on October 18th and the estimated delivery date to my home is November 9th.

[Yoda]

IMO this whole Ebay authentic and vault service (still optional) facilities are a hinderance on us collectors. The delays and over examination on graded cards takes some enjoyment out of Ebay purchases, and as others have pointed out, authentication of raw cards opens a whole new can of worms.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by npa589

I know what the policy says, but either the TPG is entirely and consistently incompetent, or they really are only checking for authenticity. For example, undisclosed trims are getting through the authentication process with ease.


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You have some examples to share with us?

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[npa589]

I've had it happen a couple times just in the past couple months - would prefer not to say exactly what they were - so I guess you'll just have to believe me. The seller made sure to write "100% authentic" - perhaps that's the loophole?

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

You have some examples to share with us?

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[the 'stache]

I'm sure this has been answered in the past, but I've been a bit MIA.

Who, exactly, is doing the authentication for Ebay? What are their hobby credentials?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I'm sure this has been answered in the past, but I've been a bit MIA.

Who, exactly, is doing the authentication for Ebay? What are their hobby credentials?

PSA authenticates the slabs (not the cards, but the slabs) that are already slabbed.

CSG is doing the raw card version where they actually look at the card.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by npa589

I know what the policy says, but either the TPG is entirely and consistently incompetent, or they really are only checking for authenticity. For example, undisclosed trims are getting through the authentication process with ease.

Same with all of the graders actually putting them in the slabs with number grades. Or are you new to the whole trimming scandal? PSA is still slabbing Greg Libersher trimmed cards with number grades and he's selling them from a new eBay account.
Read some threads (there are hundreds) at Blowout to find out more.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by raulus

I also recently sold 2 PSA graded cards on eBay in 2 separate transactions, within 24 hours of one another. One for $3k, and another for $1.95k. The one for $1.95k was a tallboy case, and went to the authenticator. The one for $3k was a jumbo case, and didn't go to the authenticator. Not sure if the size made a difference, or if there were other features that caused one to go through the authentication process, and the other to skip it.

Was the buyer for the one that didn't go through authentication either international or used a P.O. Box for shipping address? I believe neither of those will trigger authenticity check.

So if anyone feels strongly about opting out of this process and you buy enough, I guess you could get a PO Box and have AG purchases shipped there instead.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Was the buyer for the one that didn't go through authentication either international or used a P.O. Box for shipping address? I believe neither of those will trigger authenticity check.

So if anyone feels strongly about opting out of this process and you buy enough, I guess you could get a PO Box and have AG purchases shipped there instead.

Turns out both addresses were domestic, and neither was a PO Box. So that wouldn’t explain the difference either.

[John V]

How does the authentication process impact seller (or buyer) fees, if at all?

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by raulus

Turns out both addresses were domestic, and neither was a PO Box. So that wouldn’t explain the difference either.

There are several ways a seller can bypass the Authenticity Guarantee. The most well-known one is putting “ Set Break” in the title. Other ways are: 1) Cards ( plural) is in the title,2) “ Free Local Pick up” is offered, 3) Signed cards are exempted ( this also occurs if Signature is marked yes/original in the detailed description even if the card isn’t signed, 4) it also has to be sold under Sports Cards ( e.g. if you sell an Exhibit under Post Cards it won’t go through the Authenticity program).

It would be helpful if you show us the Titles ( or some fascimile of them) to find out why it didn’t go through the process.

The below won’t go through because it has “Sets” in the title and algorithm reads it as Multiple cards.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/39430471677...Bk9SR8zGr_CDYQ

Whereas, this one doesn’t have “ Sets” in the title and it’ll be authenticated

https://www.ebay.com/itm/19541297223...3ABFBMvsbO8INh

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by John V

How does the authentication process impact seller (or buyer) fees, if at all?

Right now it doesn't, but eventually they're going to start charging for it.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

Right now it doesn't, but eventually they're going to start charging for it.

Or not.

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[raulus]

Originally Posted by EddieP

There are several ways a seller can bypass the Authenticity Guarantee. The most well-known one is putting “ Set Break” in the title. Other ways are: 1) Cards ( plural) is in the title,2) “ Free Local Pick up” is offered, 3) Signed cards are exempted ( this also occurs if Signature is marked yes/original in the detailed description even if the card isn’t signed, 4) it also has to be sold under Sports Cards ( e.g. if you sell an Exhibit under Post Cards it won’t go through the Authenticity program).

It would be helpful if you show us the Titles ( or some fascimile of them) to find out why it didn’t go through the process.

The below won’t go through because it has “Sets” in the title and algorithm reads it as Multiple cards.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/39430471677...Bk9SR8zGr_CDYQ

Whereas, this one doesn’t have “ Sets” in the title and it’ll be authenticated

https://www.ebay.com/itm/19541297223...3ABFBMvsbO8INh

It’s possible that I checked a box or used a word somewhere in my listing that inadvertently resulted in the authenticity process being inapplicable.

But if you want to dig in further, here’s the first listing that went to PSA for authenticity confirmation:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13377172387...mis&media=COPY

And here’s the second that went straight to the buyer:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13420181499...mis&media=COPY

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Or not.

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We’ll definitely see. I think the wording on their website suggests that they don’t currently charge for it, which seems to suggest that they might charge for it later.

Given that sellers already pay about 16% for selling fees and payment processing, it would be nice to avoid paying more.

[D. Bergin]

I believe they started charging for the "Sneaker Authentication", which apparently was free for a while.

Ebay doesn't do anything unless it eventually leads to them getting a bigger piece of the transaction pie.

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by raulus

It’s possible that I checked a box or used a word somewhere in my listing that inadvertently resulted in the authenticity process being inapplicable.

But if you want to dig in further, here’s the first listing that went to PSA for authenticity confirmation:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13377172387...mis&media=COPY

And here’s the second that went straight to the buyer:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13420181499...mis&media=COPY

The 2nd listing has the word “Pack” and that throws off the algorithm to believe there are multiple cards involved.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by EddieP

The 2nd listing has the word “Pack” and that throws off the algorithm to believe there are multiple cards involved.

Interesting. I guess the name of the piece having the word “pack” was all it took to fool the process. In spite of the fact that there was no pack involved!

[raulus]

Originally Posted by raulus

Interesting. I guess the name of the piece having the word “pack” was all it took to fool the process. In spite of the fact that there was no pack involved!

I guess if someone includes “pack fresh!” In their listing, then they get a similar result?

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by raulus

I guess if someone includes “pack fresh!” In their listing, then they get a similar result?

No, “Pack Fresh” triggers Authenticity Guarantee

https://www.ebay.com/itm/19543261383...Bk9SR_6t4tCEYQ

But “Pack” by itself doesn’t

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12558528305...Bk9SR8rU7dCEYQ

[raulus]

Originally Posted by EddieP

No, “Pack Fresh” triggers Authenticity Guarantee

https://www.ebay.com/itm/19543261383...Bk9SR_6t4tCEYQ

But “Pack” by itself doesn’t

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12558528305...Bk9SR8rU7dCEYQ

HA.

That’s just…

Bloody brilliant!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I believe they started charging for the "Sneaker Authentication", which apparently was free for a while.

Ebay doesn't do anything unless it eventually leads to them getting a bigger piece of the transaction pie.

Any idea what the charge is, and is it coming directly out of the seller's pocket, or being tacked on to the buyer like sales taxes?

Can easily see the fees to possibly be charged for card authentication being a different amount, and even charging different amounts for verifying authenticity versus inspecting TPG holders, based on the actual differences in services being performed. But expect Ebay will be consistent in who they then directly charge for the service.

And since they are now charging someone for sneaker authentication, any idea if they are allowing an opt-out option for that service by either the buyer or the seller, or both?

Thinking like a business, I'm going to guess Ebay is directly charging the sellers, and there is no opt-out. But if there is any opt-out available, I'm guessing it is available to at least the buyer. Businesses like Ebay are most definitely buyer favorable. Keeping the buyers happy and coming back creates demand, and that demand in turn influences and gets sellers to create more supply. Even if they don't necessarily like selling on Ebay. More supply does not necessarily create more demand though, at least not sustainably over time (junk wax era anyone). So, you could have all the happy sellers you want on Ebay, but if there's no customers buying, they're no sellers selling.