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  #1  
Old 12-29-2021, 07:48 AM
butchie_t butchie_t is offline
Butch T.
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Default Whatdoyoufreakin'mean trimmed??????

I have been ruminating about posting this card since I recently got it back from SGC a couple of months ago.

A little history, I got this John Stockton card back in the mid 90's from a friend that got it from a pack of Wild Cards. Now this friend of mine, has no ulterior motives and was not even into slabbing way back then. Actually neither of us even knew about slabbing cards or even if it existed at the time. I traded a number of my cards with him and this card was one of many I got in return.

Fast forward to today, I recently sent the card into SGC for grading, as you can see the scarlet letter 'A' was the grade I received. The explanation was evidence of trimming... WTH??? WT@??? If it was trimmed, why does it fit the holder pretty damned well? I am no expert here when it comes to these things.

I have been going back and forth on whether I should bust the slab and sell it raw. I am irked about this as nether my friend nor I would do such a thing. I believe SGC blew it on the grading, frankly (I know, yet another whine about SGC and grading. At least I am sharing it here.).

Anyone know of a laser ruler (or an app) that can accurately measure cards? I have measured this with a caliper (post slab) and it comes within the tolerances of a number of different cards that I have measured for comparison. ugh.........

Submitted for your inspection and thoughts.

B. T.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg B 92 Wild Card 84 Stockton 1K Stripe Front.jpg (77.4 KB, 347 views)
File Type: jpg B 92 Wild Card 84 Stockton 1K Stripe Back.jpg (74.2 KB, 343 views)
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  #2  
Old 12-29-2021, 01:00 PM
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These days I hear one horror story after another about grading, not just SGC. I suspect they all have a lot of very new graders who aren't terribly experienced or adept.
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  #3  
Old 12-29-2021, 01:02 PM
butchie_t butchie_t is offline
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Frustrating to say the least. Makes me feel like a criminal if I decide to sell this.
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  #4  
Old 02-15-2022, 11:05 AM
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Butchie, nearly impossible to tell from the images, although you posted nice ones. May I hazard a guess? I'd love to see the right side of the card on its edge. In my experience, when the size looks good and the cuts are straight, which these appear to be, looking directly at the edges under magnification may reveal an improper "roll" or an odd stratification of the cardboard, or even a slight jagging of the cut. i.e. not cut evenly and at a uniform pace. I say this based on countless discussions with a couple of graders I know.

Having said that, I'm guessing the grader didn't like an edge. I'm just guessing that it's the right edge (they don't always tell you). Personally, I'd bust it out as no one buys a modern card with an "A." I believe BGS is the most lenient when it comes to size differential. If you must have it in a slab, you could send it to them. They'll grade it an 8.5 if the surface has no hairline marks IMHO.
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Thanks for your thoughts, Joe.

Love the late 1800’s Boston Beaneaters and the early Boston Red Sox (1903-1918)!

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Old 02-15-2022, 11:10 AM
butchie_t butchie_t is offline
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I have not yet busted it out of the tomb but I will do this shortly. I have an upcoming trip and can do this when I return around the last week of February. I'll post the pictures of all the sides when I return.

Regards,

B.T.
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  #6  
Old 02-15-2022, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butchie_t View Post
I have not yet busted it out of the tomb but I will do this shortly. I have an upcoming trip and can do this when I return around the last week of February. I'll post the pictures of all the sides when I return.

Regards,

B.T.
I believe we all have so many issues with trimming because it can be as subjective as evaluating the card's corners or surface. Sizes do vary slightly and its super hard to tell if a card is trimmed well. The challenges of grading! I honestly believe every grader should have a library of hi-rez cards they can review when grading these less common cards. Best of luck my friend.
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Thanks for your thoughts, Joe.

Love the late 1800’s Boston Beaneaters and the early Boston Red Sox (1903-1918)!

Also collecting any and all basketball memorabilia.
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  #7  
Old 02-15-2022, 12:05 PM
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Its hard enough for experienced card collectors to judge the condition and authenticity of a card. I dont buy the act that all these companies can bring in people off the street and make them experts at this in a couple of months. Whats the secret sauce?
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  #8  
Old 02-15-2022, 01:04 PM
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Don't send to Beckett: they see stuff that isn't there too. I brought them a Clemente RC at the AC National that had provenance traceable all the way back to the original owner. He sold his childhood collection to a friend (as solid a hobbyist as there is) who had it for decades and then sold the card to me. I was getting a modern card done at Beckett so I figured WTF and gave them the 1950s Topps card since I didn't feel like standing in a second line. They rejected it and when I asked why they said it had been soaked, pressed and laser-trimmed. Really? To generate a good condition card with terrible centering?? I took it to SGC and they slabbed it correctly.

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  #9  
Old 02-15-2022, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Don't send to Beckett: they see stuff that isn't there too. I brought them a Clemente RC at the AC National that had provenance traceable all the way back to the original owner. He sold his childhood collection to a friend (as solid a hobbyist as there is) who had it for decades and then sold the card to me. I was getting a modern card done at Beckett so I figured WTF and gave them the 1950s Topps card since I didn't feel like standing in a second line. They rejected it and when I asked why they said it had been soaked, pressed and laser-trimmed. Really? To generate a good condition card with terrible centering?? I took it to SGC and they slabbed it correctly.

Valid point. I guess that's why many of us feel relieved to get our vintage cards back with grades on them, even if we don't like the grade! Its a real crap shoot, but grading has raised the prices of nice cards in the hobby and has prevented a lot (not all) of the scamming. I swear off grading regularly but always go back!
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Thanks for your thoughts, Joe.

Love the late 1800’s Boston Beaneaters and the early Boston Red Sox (1903-1918)!

Also collecting any and all basketball memorabilia.
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  #10  
Old 03-08-2022, 07:48 AM
butchie_t butchie_t is offline
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Hmm, coulda swore I posted to this string yesterday but maybe I never hit submit...duh.

Anyway, attached are some photos that I took of the card after deslabbing. Hopefully one can see the sides of the card as best as I could get and possibly see any nefarious trimming that was determined by SGC. I have lodged a whine to SGC and they recommended a review of the card. I may do that if the answers to my questions are satisfactory answered.

Regardless: for you review.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN0626.jpg (113.6 KB, 159 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0629.jpg (110.4 KB, 160 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0630.jpg (97.7 KB, 158 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0632.jpg (180.6 KB, 157 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0635.jpg (181.4 KB, 154 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0638.jpg (139.6 KB, 158 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0644.jpg (167.8 KB, 158 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0648.jpg (177.3 KB, 158 views)
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“Man proposes and God disposes.”
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Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets
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  #11  
Old 03-08-2022, 09:26 AM
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Those are some great close ups... man its hard to call that card trimmed. You may have gotten hosed on that Stockton, Butch.
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Thanks for your thoughts, Joe.

Love the late 1800’s Boston Beaneaters and the early Boston Red Sox (1903-1918)!

Also collecting any and all basketball memorabilia.
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  #12  
Old 03-08-2022, 10:35 AM
butchie_t butchie_t is offline
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I am in contact with SGC now regarding just that thing. Of course, since it is now broken out of the slab it will be treated as a new submission. Which I guess I get, but I will be clicking the 'review' drop down when it gets resent.

Something tells me this will be at least a ~$120.00 learning session. Irks me a bit.

Cheers.

B. T.
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“Man proposes and God disposes.”
U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885

Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets
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  #13  
Old 03-08-2022, 01:20 PM
butchie_t butchie_t is offline
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SGC replied and now this is moving towards more if an irritant. Because I de-slabed the card it will be treated as a new submission. Speaking with Brent he said I can send him the information once it is received at SGC.

Seems to me that it will not be treated as a review and I fear it will not get the attention that I believe it should receive. Soooooooo, I will mull this over for a few days before I decide to or not to send it back into SGC for grading.

harrump.....but I understand their stance.

B.T.
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“Man proposes and God disposes.”
U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885

Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets
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  #14  
Old 03-08-2022, 04:47 PM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
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That card is so nice it HAS TO BE trimmed. Good luck to you.
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  #15  
Old 03-08-2022, 04:54 PM
butchie_t butchie_t is offline
Butch T.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorditadogg View Post
That card is so nice it HAS TO BE trimmed. Good luck to you.
Ouch, you are killing me smalls.

I received it in a trade and it went right into a top loader. And there it sat for a number of years.

B. T.
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“Man proposes and God disposes.”
U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885

Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets
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  #16  
Old 03-09-2022, 10:24 AM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butchie_t View Post
Ouch, you are killing me smalls.

I received it in a trade and it went right into a top loader. And there it sat for a number of years.

B. T.
Haha. Pete and Re-Pete were sitting on a fence. Pete fell off. Who was left?
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  #17  
Old 03-12-2022, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butchie_t View Post

Anyone know of a laser ruler (or an app) that can accurately measure cards? I have measured this with a caliper (post slab) and it comes within the tolerances of a number of different cards that I have measured for comparison. ugh.........

B. T.
I have used a free tool called JRuler for a long time - It can be set to measure all the way down to pixels

http://www.spadixbd.com/freetools/jruler.htm
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  #18  
Old 03-12-2022, 08:32 AM
butchie_t butchie_t is offline
Butch T.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen View Post
I have used a free tool called JRuler for a long time - It can be set to measure all the way down to pixels

http://www.spadixbd.com/freetools/jruler.htm
Sweet!

Thank you for the info and the link. I will certainly look into this.

Regards,

B. T.
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“Man proposes and God disposes.”
U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885

Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets
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  #19  
Old 03-17-2022, 11:37 AM
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Reminds me of a dealer that told me that a 1983 Topps Gwynn fresh from a factory set was trimmed.

Honestly, I want to thank that dealer as I was a broke college student in 93' and was trying to sell a good chunk of my childhood cards and got so mad I walked out. Most of those early 80's childhood cards are now in my son's collection and that experience kept them in my hands.

Sometimes, things work out.
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