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  #1  
Old 05-13-2014, 12:15 AM
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Bill Gregory
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Default Now Jose Fernandez is going to need Tommy John surgery

When is Major League Baseball going to admit it has a SERIOUS problem?



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This is just disgusting. In an effort to push athletes to run faster, hit farther, throw faster, Major League teams have forced their players into a wall. The human body can only do so much, and pitchers are dropping like flies.
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Last edited by the 'stache; 05-13-2014 at 12:18 AM.
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  #2  
Old 05-13-2014, 04:30 AM
barrysloate barrysloate is offline
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I agree Bill. Something is wrong but I don't know exactly what it is. But so manyl of the great young arms seem to succumb to these awful injuries.

Back in the day when a pitcher was expected to pitch nine innings, he had to pace himself to get to the end of the game. Now that pitchers know they are only expected to go six or seven, they are less concerned with running out of gas. As a result, they are pitching like mad for roughly 100 pitches, probably putting too much stress on their arms. And I'm not even sure if that is the cause, but there is no doubt that the pitcher injury list is growing large. Look at the Mets and the Yankees, for example. Those two teams alone are keeping the surgeons very busy.

Something should be done, whatever that may be.

Last edited by barrysloate; 05-13-2014 at 08:15 AM.
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  #3  
Old 05-13-2014, 06:43 AM
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It's just frightening.

Greg Maddux didn't have the raw stuff most of these "aces" now do, but he had about a 20 year career because he was smart, and he had incredible careers.
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Old 05-13-2014, 07:04 AM
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Default Pitch Counts

I think that pitch counts have lead to this problem. Pitchers are babied today with pitch counts and not throwing between starts. How can they build up strength in their arms with these limitations?

Back before pitch counts, starters were expected to pitch 8-9 innings. It was about innings, not pitches. Let these starters throw 150+ pitches a game. Long toss between starts, etc., etc.
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Old 05-13-2014, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgellis View Post
I think that pitch counts have lead to this problem. Pitchers are babied today with pitch counts and not throwing between starts. How can they build up strength in their arms with these limitations?

Back before pitch counts, starters were expected to pitch 8-9 innings. It was about innings, not pitches. Let these starters throw 150+ pitches a game. Long toss between starts, etc., etc.
I agree.

Another problem is they way they pitch when they are kids, they all try to throw 90MPH in LL and HS

Last edited by Jim65; 05-13-2014 at 07:13 AM.
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  #6  
Old 05-13-2014, 07:26 AM
SmokyBurgess SmokyBurgess is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgellis View Post
I think that pitch counts have lead to this problem. Pitchers are babied today with pitch counts and not throwing between starts. How can they build up strength in their arms with these limitations?

Back before pitch counts, starters were expected to pitch 8-9 innings. It was about innings, not pitches. Let these starters throw 150+ pitches a game. Long toss between starts, etc., etc.
Maybe Leo Mazzone had the right program in Atlanta. Glavine, Maddux and many others seemed to fair well in their careers.
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Old 05-13-2014, 09:31 AM
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I think it's the mentality of the pitchers, like some others have suggested.

Everyone thinks they have to throw hard. I can't think of a pitcher who's gone down that is a contact pitcher. I feel like pitchers today need to be taught to pitch to contact in certain situations. If no one's on base, you don't have to strike a guy out. If there's a man on first, the double play is your friend.
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Old 05-13-2014, 07:56 PM
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ESPN the magazine had a great article about the strain that increased velocity puts on a pitcher's arm. I highly recommend reading it.


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Old 05-13-2014, 11:59 PM
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Definitely has been a bad year up to this point in baseball with so many big time injuries....it's sickening.

I'm starting to wonder if the Yankees are gonna have any capable uninjured bodies left to finish the season! This year is QUICKLY starting to mimic last year's NYY team. If they're all healthy, it's a playoff/WS contender....if they keep going down the same path and dropping like flies, Baltimore is gonna walk away with the East this year. Looking more and more like another wasted season in the Bronx for us Yankee fans
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:11 AM
MyGuyTy MyGuyTy is offline
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On a side note, what I find amazing is that hockey players go all season and all playoffs long smashing their bodies against one another and against the boards, taking pucks all over their bodies (ie. face, throat, midsection, legs) get whacked in the face and throat with opposing hockey sticks, fall down constantly on solid ice that's hard as a rock and take cross checks to the body....yet they seem to miss very little time as a general rule throughout the season.

Yet Baseball players who f*cking stand around most of the game/season, run occasionally and do as little as possible compared to the 3 other major sports.....SOMEHOW end up with higher injury rates...

Today's baseball player's are becoming increasingly more fragile compared to past generations, yet today's players are so much bigger and stronger.....absolutely amazing how these guys just can't stay healthy for a whole season to save their lives.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:45 AM
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To be fair the baseball season is the most grueling of any sport. It's almost 6 months long and 7 months if you make it to the World Series.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
To be fair the baseball season is the most grueling of any sport. It's almost 6 months long and 7 months if you make it to the World Series.
To counter argue, if you added up the "gruelingness" of an 82 game hockey season vs. a 6 month baseball season (of mostly standing around or sitting on your ass in the dugout), hockey is still a million times more demanding and physically exhausting on the human body. Just read an article, a Minnesota Wild player just played the entire playoff series against the Hawks with a separated shoulder!......lol. If a BB player separated his shoulder, he's on the DL and likely done for the season.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
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To be fair the baseball season is the most grueling of any sport. It's almost 6 months long and 7 months if you make it to the World Series.
True, but these guys are getting hurt early in the season.

I've been having an ongoing chat with Will Carroll. Last night, Jason Kendall (former MLB catcher) was on the Olbermann show. He has a theory that pitchers are getting these injuries more often because they are weight training more. It seems at least plausible that the increased mass they are adding decreases the flexibility of the arm, and the larger muscles are putting more torque on the ligaments.

Nolan Ryan was incredibly conditioned. He rode the exercise bike for hours every day, and worked on his ranch pretty much every day. But he never did any real weight training, at least not the kind that built muscle mass.

I think baseball players are pushing the human body as far as it can go.
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Old 05-15-2014, 05:39 AM
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Did anyone see the MLB Roundtable about pitching injuries that was on MLB Network last week. Dr Altcheck and Dr Andrews were guests, I got the impression they think some of the surgeries are unnecessary, that there is an overconfidence among teams and players in the surgery and a misbelief that pitchers come back and throw harder which the Drs say is completely untrue.
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  #15  
Old 05-15-2014, 09:23 AM
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I still think baseball has the most demanding schedule and is the most demanding on the body.

Starters will play 162 games. In hockey there are line changes and they only play half as many games. Premium position players like catcher, shortstop, center field are all elite athletes. It's not just a bunch of guys standing around.

I do think there is something to the points being raised about weight lifting. And I also think there is something to be said for guys who aren't truly pitchers, but are out there throwing as hard as they can. Or throwing the wrong pitch too often.

Last edited by packs; 05-15-2014 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:46 AM
mckinneyj mckinneyj is offline
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There are quite a few theories on this subject. Some think that the year round travel baseball for kids and the impetus to hit 90 on the gun in high school results in damage that doesn't show until later on - either college or pros. Another popular theory is mechanics that result in an "inverted w" and/or "scapular loading" during the pitching motion. Apparently a commonly taught pitching technique results in additional load being placed on the arms for pitchers who don't have the leg strenght to drive the ball. Fascinating stuff - have a look at some of what a google search for "pitching inverted w injury" turns up - again, all theory with nothing settled and no rigorous studies yet done.
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Old 05-15-2014, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim65 View Post
I agree.

Another problem is they way they pitch when they are kids, they all try to throw 90MPH in LL and HS
I agree with this and the fact that they start throwing a curve ball at too young an age. It puts horrible strain on an undeveloped arm.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
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I still think baseball has the most demanding schedule and is the most demanding on the body.

Starters will play 162 games. In hockey there are line changes and they only play half as many games. Premium position players like catcher, shortstop, center field are all elite athletes. It's not just a bunch of guys standing around.

I do think there is something to the points being raised about weight lifting. And I also think there is something to be said for guys who aren't truly pitchers, but are out there throwing as hard as they can. Or throwing the wrong pitch too often.
Line changes are CONSTANT in hockey. They don't sit on the benches very long before they're up and back on the ice. If you gonna sit here and say baseball is a more grueling sport, you're gonna lose that argument EVERY single time. You must think golf is pretty "grueling" as well, haha.

I played hockey from 6 years old to early twenties on a semi pro league. Played baseball from 4 until 18........they're not even close to being compared on their effects on the body, not even close. I enjoyed the constant 15-20 min. rests in the dugout while we were batting. Then got my "exercise" once every 45 min running after a pop fly, lol. Conversely my whole body was beaten after one game playing hockey.

There's a reason they call the Stanley Cup "The hardest trophy to win in sports".
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Old 05-15-2014, 05:56 PM
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Hockey certainly demands better conditioning but the players are at a lower risk for a lot of the injuries that baseball players are susceptible to. Skating is easier on the knees than running and shoulders are safer because there is no throwing in hockey. Of course they also wear body armor.
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