Most Interesting Old Judge Players

[oldjudge]

I thought I'd start a thread where Old Judge collectors, and those not collecting the set but interested in baseball history, could choose one player from the Old Judge set with an interesting bio and discuss it here. Amongst the now 522 members of the set there is certainly no shortage of interesting characters.
For me, I'd like to start with Art Irwin. The following are some interesting tidbits from his life:

1. Born in Toronto, Canada in 1858
2. Teammate Charlie Ferguson died of typhoid fever in his house in 1888
3. After his playing days coached baseball at the University of Pennsylvania
4. Developed one of the first baseball gloves, the "Irwin glove", for protection after breaking two fingers on his left hand in a game.
5. President of the first American professional soccer league
6. On July 16, 1921, he jumped to his death from the vessel Calvin Austin on a trip between New York and Boston. Irwin was gravely ill at the time. After his death it was found that the player nicknamed Foxy had led a double life. He had two families, neither of which knew of the other. He had a widow in Boston, Elizabeth, with whom he had had three children, and a widow in New York, May, with whom he had one child.
7. Member of the Canadian Baseball HOF

[rhettyeakley]

Funny, I was reading Bob Lemke's blog just the other day and read a post w/ info I had never heard before about Harry Decker...
http://boblemke.blogspot.com/2009/11...r-convict.html

interesting stuff.

[oldjudge]

Rhett-I believe that there is additional information about Decker in Peter Morris's great book "Catcher".

[RCMcKenzie]

ojsmithbat.jpg

n172barkerf.jpgn172barkerb.jpg

n172geo1.jpgn172geo2.jpg


Germany Smith committed seven intentional errors in 1885, during a game pitched by new pitcher Phenomenal Smith (who had given himself his own nickname before joining the team).

As the writer of the Goodwin auction catalog aptly put it, "An outstanding glove man with exceptional range...if he could have boosted his average to the standards of the day, Smith might be remembered as one of the finest to ever play".

[CW]

(while the card is from my collection, the majority of this info was ripped straight from Wiki)

Hardy Richardson played every position at some point, but was known for his play at second base with Buffalo when he was a member of the "Big Four," a star infield that consisted of Richardson and his teammates Dan Brouthers, Jack Rowe, and Deacon White.

Richardson's best season probably came in 1890 with the Boston Reds of the Players' League, when he had 181 hits in 555 turns at bat, a .326 batting average, while also compiling a career-high 13 home runs and 146 RBIs.

Richardson was involved in an unusual circumstance in a game against the Chicago White Stockings on August 13, 1884.

Chicago's George Gore singled to lead off the game, and Chicago manager Cap Anson instructed him to avoid the double play at all costs. Accordingly, when King Kelly followed with a ground ball, Gore tackled Richardson at second base before he could complete the relay throw. The umpire called both the batter and the runner out, and Anson protested the ruling so strenuously and stridently that the umpire forfeited the game to Buffalo.

This ruling was met with disapproval by the Chicago crowd of approximately 2,000, and after extensive discussions, the two teams agreed to resume a game which had been postponed earlier in the season, as a way of placating the dissatisfied fans.

In this second game, Anson decided to give his players a personal demonstration of the right way to break up the double play. He reached first base, and when the next batter hit a ground ball to Richardson, Anson shouted and waved his arms while running to second in an effort to interfere with Richardson's throw. Possibly flustered by this display, Richardson in turn struck Anson square in the head with his throw, which was delivered hard enough that it bounced all the way into the grandstands. A woozy Anson was forced to leave the game.

(adopted from Fleitz, David L. Cap Anson: the grand old man of baseball, McFarland, 2005, pp. 122-123.)

[oldjudge]

Great story Chuck!

Barkley began his career with the Toledo Blue Stockings of the Northwestern League, and was a member of their championship team in 1883.He was still with the team when they joined the American Association for the 1884 season, and was the everyday second baseman. He batted .306 that season and led the league in doubles with 39. Following the season, Toledo and the St. Louis Browns made an arrangement in the off-season for a trade involving several players, but the trade broke down after the waiting period and only Barkley and one other player actually played with St. Louis. After a lawsuit it was estimated that Barkley had been valued for $800. Chris von der Ahe later claimed that Barkley's value was $1,000, but that may have been the asking price.
In March 1886, Browns owner Chris Von der Ahe offered Barkley for $1000 to the first team to pay the money. Billy Barnie was able to have Barkley sign an undated contract with the Baltimore Orioles and wired the asking price to Von der Ahe, but he had already secured a deal with owner of the Pittsburg Alleghenys, Denny McKnight, and Sam was convinced to play for the Allegheny club instead. The American Association suspended and fined Barkley for signing with Pittsburgh this action. Barkley sued the Association, but they settled out of court with suspension being lifted although the fine stayed in place. Baltimore was offered and accepted Milt Scott as payment.
That first season with Pittsburgh, the 1886 season, he hit .266 with 31 doubles, and he also stole 22 bases, while playing in 122 games. He stats declined significantly in 1887, only playing in 89 games, hitting only .224. After the season was over, Pittsburgh sold him to the Kansas City Cowboys of the American Association.
He was given good playing time in 1888 by the Cowboys, playing in 116 games, but his batting average slid further down, to .216, but the season was not uneventful. On June 13, he hit for the cycle, and he was given the managerial reins, which lasted 58 games and 21 wins.

Information from Wikipedia Card from my collection

Im not sure if he is one of the players that Pittsburgh signed while signed with another and by doing this giving the Pittsburgh Team the name Pirates

[RCMcKenzie]

Maybe not the most interesting n172 subject, but this is a well written bio of Fred Mann on SABR...





www.sabr.org/bioproj/person/3b8d1e5f
n173fredmann051.jpg

[z28jd]

Harry Whiteacre never played pro ball, just an amateur player on the right day at the right time. Only took 120 years to figure out who he actually was...

[oldjudge]

Rob--that's a great bio of Mann--thanks.

John-you should take credit for finding out who Whiteacre was.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Rob--that's a great bio of Mann--thanks.

John-you should take credit for finding out who Whiteacre was.

I would say it was a bit of luck finding an 1886 team photo in an obscure book, but the time I put in looking for Harry sort of trumps the luck aspect. I'm surprised I don't hoard his cards...or at least upgrade the one I have!

[oldjudge]

John--you could hoard all the _arrys. You already hoard Larry-- you could work on the Harry's, the other Larry's, and the Barry's and Garry's if there are any.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

John--you could hoard all the _arrys. You already hoard Larry-- you could work on the Harry's, the other Larry's, and the Barry's and Garry's if there are any.

Larry Corcoran once called someone who couldn't field their position well, a "field ornament" in the newspaper and now writing up scouting reports, I use that phrase. Is that interesting? If it is, I'll post one of his cards

[SetBuilder]

"pebbly" Jack Glasscock

[Matthew H]

Wow, great thread!

Since I've decided that I'm not going to collect Cal League OJs (not because they're rare and expensive, simply because I don't want to ) I've found players that once played in the California League, then made the majors to be interesting to me. These guys are the first of many of the best players that played in the cal league, and later the PCL, to be pillaged by the majors. California Brown and George Van Haltran are two easier ones.

Peak-a-boo Veach has a cool story. I'd love to have one of his cards someday... Even if it meant eating out of a can for a couple years

It's hard to beat Art Irwin's story... What an interesting life he had. Since there is no Irwin card in this thread, here's mine:

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Larry Corcoran once called someone who couldn't field their position well, a "field ornament" in the newspaper and now writing up scouting reports, I use that phrase. Is that interesting? If it is, I'll post one of his cards

That's funny!

[oldjudge]

John--you might as well post the hoard

[z28jd]

I haven't taken a new family photo since the last addition(he knows he's the ugliest one too), so here it is in two pics. I'm sure they share some interesting stories with each other

[cdn_collector]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Rhett-I believe that there is additional information about Decker in Peter Morris's great book "Catcher".

I'm actually reading this book right now. It's an excellent so far. Anyone interested in how the catcher's position and the game in general evolved should pick it up. And though I'm not quite there yet, there is a chapter titled 'Harry Decker, the "Don Juan of Shaven Head"'.

Regards,

Richard.

[kkkkandp]

Jake Wells' bio was an interesting one...

"...Making the major leagues is every baseball player’s dream, but Jake Wells’ life after his baseball playing days were over was far more interesting. Wells had two brief stops in the big leagues – one with the Detroit Wolverines in 1888 and the other with the Saint Louis Browns in 1890. His lifetime totals were meager – 34 games, 46 hits, .210 batting average. While logging time as the player/manager of the Richmond Bluebirds of the Atlantic League he entered a store to purchase a leather strap to bundle some baseball bats. He inquired about the store's odd architecture. The store was a former opera house. Upon leaving the store Wells commented there was money to be made with a popular-priced vaudeville. He bought and reopened the building as the Bijou Family Theatre. Richmond's first vaudeville house was an immediate success. By the early 1920's Jake Wells was known as The Father of Vaudeville in the Southeast and operated 42 theatres in nine states. In 1921 he was awarded ownership of the Richmond Colts in the Virginia League. All this success, however, apparently came with pressure. On March 16, 1927, Jake Wells shot and killed himself. His doctor reported that Wells seemed to have worked himself to death..."

[bbcard1]

It is a great and expansive set during an era where most all ball players were characters. Though not obscure, i would submit Billy Sunday is as interesting as any player ever to play the game. After growing up in an orphanage, he carouser with the best of them, when he converted to Christianity at the height of his career and left the game to work in service. He found a knack for preaching and became the most significant evangelist of the early 20th century...I'd say the most significant evanagelist of all time behind Billy Graham and ...well....Jesus. He was the key and driving force behind prohibition and had prohibition "taken" would be considered one of the more significant people in American history. His ministered to millions in traveling revivals in days where there was at best crude amplification. His ministry was never tainted by allegations of wrongdoing, through some people thought he made too much money.

Here's an old clip of him preaching. :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QgQuc_1pyY

I wanted to be involved in Old Judge collecting though I only have a couple and I recently decided that a Billy Sunday run was the way I was going to go. Have one down...but they come up quite a bit and are not overly expensive considering.

[Wite3]

The Phillies seemed to be a magnet for interesting old judge players...mentioned before are Irwin and Decker, I am sure Delahanty, Gleason and Brouthers will be talked about as well.

Little known catcher Jack Clements was a very interesting player. Clements was a left handed catcher (nearly unheard of in the history of major league baseball). He was first catcher to catch 1000 games in the major leagues. Credited with creating and wearing the first chest protector. Only day to day player of the 19th century to retire with more HRs than triples. Actually held the record for HRs by a catcher (career and season) until 1925 (Gabby Hartnett broke it FYI).

Batters learned to duck when Jack threw down to second...rumored that he threw no matter what because if he hit the batter, it was often called interference and the runner would be out.

Clements was also rumored to be a true studier of the game and players. He would talk about opposing players often and their hitting styles, stances, base running, etc. helping his team.

Played his last major league game in 1900 with Boston.

Joshua

[edhans]

Originally Posted by kkkkandp

Jake Wells' bio was an interesting one...

His lifetime totals were meager – 34 games, 46 hits, .210 batting average. "

I'm sure I'll be the only geek to notice, but those numbers don't add up. It wold take 219 at-bats for 46 hits to yield a .210 average. Divided over 34 games, that would average out to almost 6 1/2 at-bats per game. Seems a little high, even for that era.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by edhans

I'm sure I'll be the only geek to notice, but those numbers don't add up. It wold take 219 at-bats for 46 hits to yield a .210 average. Divided over 34 games, that would average out to almost 6 1/2 at-bats per game. Seems a little high, even for that era.

He reversed the numbers, 46 games, 34 hits. Old age will do that to you

[oldjudge]

He did that with his stats from Williams also LOL

[kkkkandp]

Originally Posted by z28jd

He reversed the numbers, 46 games, 34 hits. Old age will do that to you

John:

You just keep getting further and further away from that Corcoran in my collection...

Originally Posted by oldjudge

He did that with his stats from Williams also LOL

Jay:

# 1 - I thought all the money you saved by having John and I write bios went towards professional copy editors.
# 2 - My stats at Williams make Jake Wells look like Ty Cobb.

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

He was the key and driving force behind prohibition and had prohibition "taken" would be considered one of the more significant people in American history.

Stone him!!!

[mybuddyinc]

Have never come to grips how someone could be so "cool" and so "common" at the same time ----

calbrown.jpg



------- and, yes, my only OJ.

[Joe_G.]

Bump!

I didn't have a chance to post while this thread was on the front page so I'm giving it a bump. I'd first like to thank Chuck for posting the sweet Hardy Richardson and Baby Anson story . I'll honor Chuck's nomination with a Goodwin & Co. Grand Slam (being that Detroit disbanded after 1888, this is the only way to hit 4 Detroit variations of the same pose).

Time willing, I'll introduce a new player and his family later this weekend.

[jcmtiger]

Don't have any stories, but here are my 1887 Detroit Players. Whoops date was hundred years off.

Joe

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

Don't have any stories, but here are my 1987 Detroit Players.

Joe

They all look like Jack Morris, which one is he?

[cyseymour]

I might vote for Dude Esterbrook.

[Joe_G.]

Charlie was the second oldest of five brothers who would become known as Michigan’s first family of baseball. All of them, Fred, Charlie, George, Joe, and John, would enjoy the game of baseball; collectively playing for many minor and major league teams. I will merely cover brothers Charlie and John here, together with Charlie’s son Foster (named after Charlie’s good friend Elmer Foster who can also be found in the Old Judge set).

Charlie’s major league career would span 14 years (1884 to 1897), including a championship in Detroit in 1887 and four with Boston (1891-93 & 1897). Most of his career was spent sharing catching duties with Charlie Bennett in both Detroit and Boston. Charlie was held in high regard as a dependable catcher with a strong arm and satisfactory at bat.

Charlie’s little brother John would likewise have a long baseball career with 5 years in the NL and 2 in the AL spanning from 1898 to 1908. The 1908 season was as a player/manager with the Cincinnati Reds. He would also manage the 1915 Brooklyn Tip-Tops of the Federal League. Among John’s highlights, his 1903 season with the New York Highlanders (Yankees inaugural season), in which he would hit the franchise’s first homerun and help turn the first triple play (caught liner, tagged 1st before runner could return, and then rifled to SS to tag out player caught off second). He would lead the league in fielding percentage (1st base) three times and in 1907 led the league in triples with 16. John would remain active in baseball until 1952.

Charlie’s son, Foster “Babe” Ganzel, would be one of three second generation Ganzel’s to play ball. Babe’s stint in the majors would be short but included a late game in 1927 in which he fielded his position in center field and watched another Babe hit his historic 60th homerun over his head. Babe’s major league debut would be 43 years after Charlie’s which remains a major League record for father and son. Unfortunately, Charlie didn’t live to see his son play, having died in 1914 at the age of 51. Babe would live until 1978 when he passed at the age of 76.

More details on the Ganzel family can be found here: http://www.kpl.gov/local-history/bio...-brothers.aspx


Charlie Ganzel => N172 & N173 w/ Detroit and N300 w/ Boston

John Ganzel => 1903 Carl Horner photo w/ NY Highlanders, T206 w/ Rochester (Eastern League), and C46 w/ Rochester (International League) Note: I’ve been slowly accumulating a back run of John’s T206s.

Foster (Babe) Ganzel => 1928 Star Player Candy w/ Washington Senators and 1933 Worch Cigar w/ Minneapolis Millers (American Association)

[oldjudge]

Here is a biography that I found on line, from SABR, of Charlie Ferguson. Ferguson was one of the stars of the Natinal League when he fell victim to typhoid fever and died just prior to the 1888 season. To honor him, Goodwin & Co continued to issue his Old Judge cards through 1889. The picture in the article is not Ferguson, but is Jim Tyng.

http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/727aabbe

[Joe_G.]

Well, history has made George perhaps a little more interesting than should be. Since the OJ book was published, more details have come to light that suggest Treadway wasn't negro (in part or wholly) and that his career ran a somewhat normal course (although he did face racist taunts and slurs).

http://baseballhistorydaily.com/2012...orge-treadway/

I really have enjoyed this thread, so many more characters could be discussed.

[CW]

Great stuff, Joe, Joe, and Jay!

[Matthew H]

Fascinating stuff Joe, it's incredible how much you know about early Detroit Baseball, and their families!


Nice job to all, I'm blown away by how knowledgeable the Old Judge collectors/researchers here are.

[oldjudge]

The scarcest non-California League player in the Old Judge set is Jocko Flynn. Jocko was a one season wonder with the 1886 Chicago club. The following is another excellent SABR bio:

http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/dd24ba1b

[RCMcKenzie]

There is not a lot of biographical information about Mike Dorgan on the net. His wikipedia bio is brief, but includes the quote, "Once known as 'The greatest Ball player in the country' (citation needed)"

The fact that Dorgan had 17 different poses in the n172 set, suggests that he must have been one of the best players at that time. ( see pages 210-211 of The Photographic Baseball Cards of Goodwin & Co. (1886-1890).
jwooddorgan212.jpg

[RCMcKenzie]

lesliewoodcutexcerpt1134.jpg


Stop the presses.

This J Wood photo from the latest Legendary is actually of Thomas Deasley per my Leslie's woodcut...

[z28jd]

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...entoryid=42961

[oldjudge]

You guys want accurate AND flowery descriptions?

[Bosox Blair]

Wally Andrews was a lousy hitter...except in 1887.

That year Wally put together an unbelievable dream-year at the plate and on the bases.

In 1887, with the minor league Memphis Browns, Andrews hit .422 with 218 hits, 143 runs scored, 28 home runs and 52 stolen bases in 111 games.

This astonishing performance was from the same player who hit .197 over parts of 2 seasons in the American Association.

[oldjudge]

Steroids?

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Steroids?

LOL - that was my thought too...olden-tyme steroydes !

Cheers,
Blair