CAREFUL FAKES and DECEIPT

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Posted By: dan mckee

Please don't yell at me if this has already been posted. I do not have the time to read as much as I would like to. This seller is posting decently doctored fakes with deceiving titles. He has reprint buried in his description so I can't get these booted off of ebay but this is a filthy practice and can easily burn new members to the card world. He is from Ohio where a majority of the decent faked memorabilia has been coming from. I imagine it is the same source producing these.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1954-WILSON-TED-WILLIAMS-NICE-CARD_W0QQitemZ260179743584QQihZ016QQcategoryZ86847 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Posted By: Matt

Dan - this seller is easily the largest peddler of vintage reproduced cards on ebay. He has hundreds of listings going at any given time and he is oh so very sneaky. At one point, he intentionally mispelled the word reprint buried in the item description so that if you did a description search to avoid the wor dreprint, his auctions would still be shown to you. Since ebay doesn't allow us to block users from our browsing, I have found that I now just ignore any auction that charges $4.00 shipping.

Edited to add the word "reproduced"

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Posted By: JK

You will miss an awful lot of legit auctions if you ignore any with shipping at $4.00.

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Posted By: Matt

JK - so far I've been watching for 2 weeks and haven't missed a single legit auction. Obviously, I wasn't looking at every single listing - only the ones I was interested in, but so far, the $4 shipping rule has worked for me, silly as it may seem.

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Posted By: dstudeba

Any Wilson Franks card with a boarder that wide should be avoided.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

If you take 5 seconds and read the listing it says the card is a reprint

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Posted By: Matt

boxingcardman - if you take 5 seconds and read the OP you'd know we were already aware of that.

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Posted By: JK

Well Matt,

I guess it depends on what you are looking for. But if you are looking for pre-1930 cards like the rest of us and are only looking at auctions with shipping under $4, then I assure you that you've missed some very legitimate auctions. A few examples, all with shipping above $4:

M116 Walter Johnson SGC 60
M116 Eddie Plank SGC 70
E93 Joe Tinker
E121 Stanley Coveleskie Rookie SGC 50

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Posted By: Matt

JK - you misunderstood - shipping exactly AT $4 not ABOVE $4.

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Posted By: JK

BTW Matt, Adam (boxingcardman) has been around and contributed to this board a lot longer than you - I'd suggest checking the attitude at the keyboard. Ive noticed you like to be a bit confrontational. I think you will find that taking that approach with regulars will, over time, result in many board members ignoring your requests for information, help, etc.

Just my advice - do with it as you please.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

I just concluded three dozen auctions where the shipping was $4.00 about ten days ago. Sorry I missed ya.

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Posted By: JK

"shipping exactly AT $4 not ABOVE $4"

I gotcha - I did misunderstand. Nevertheless, there are a number of legit sellers of vintage cards who ship at exactly $4. Look up some of manontherock's (hey Charlie) recently closed auctions - all shipping listed at $4 for some very nice cards (exs. Old Judge John Ward, E135 Cobb).

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Posted By: Matt

Todd - I'm sorry I missed you as well - I'm sure the rule isn't perfect - it's just a convenient thing for me, but perhaps I'll have to devise some other scheme to avoid the reprint auctions.

JK - boxingcardman was the one who had attitude - and ironically, exactly what he had attitude about, was what he himself did incorrectly. I couldn't pass up the opportunity to point out the irony, but perhaps a smiley face should have been added. I'm sorry you think I'm confrontational - I think I try to be helpful.

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Posted By: anthony

i've come to the conclusion that if the buyer isnt reading the description that says something along the lines of "doesnt say reprint on the card" or does say "reprint" in the description
then they deserve to be burned. live and learn the hard way. if you're willing to spend $50+ on a single card, you're smart enough to do some research on what the heck you are buying.

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Posted By: dan mckee

All very good points guys but please can we just get along? I posted this as a heads up, not to start a fight. Unfortunately with 35+ auction catalogs on my desk and 20+ ebay categories to go through, I do not read entire descriptions as I should and I figured maybe some other people do not either. Yes that is my fault I guess but an honest seller should have REPRINT in his title and not buried in a long description in multiple colors. This guy is pure trash in my book.

Adam you are correct but it still seems deceiving to me the way he posts his auctions. Though I absolutely do not want to argue with you, I have seen you in action in a professional setting and I know I would have my rump handed to me!

Also as Matt suggested above, this seller was purposely misspelling the word reprint in his descriptions at one point. That tells me his actions are deceiving. Matt I thought Adam deserved that small shot you gave him, and don't sweat it, Adam doesn't have a glass jaw, he is the man!

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Posted By: Shanon Ping

Hey, I just wrapped up 10 or so auctions on ebay and I charge $4.00 shipping. All legit pre-war stuff, don't give all of us a bad rep, but I understand the point you are making.

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Posted By: Matt

$4 rule has been forgotten!!
Let me know if you have any other suggestions for avoiding this guys listings. Sometimes he puts "NICE" in the title...

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Posted By: JK

I dont know how to best avoid that one seller without eliminating a lot of other possible auctions from your search. Tough call - either limit your search and avoid one fraud but also some legit sellers, or dont limit and weed through the junk with the good stuff.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Ebay needs to make one simple rule for all sellers of reprints and reproductions. The word Repro needs to be in the title or the auction will be ended. I'm sick and tired of wasting my ebay search time clicking on deceptive titles.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

and you won't be fooled. If you don't know the characteristics of the cards you are buying, stick to slabbed cards or cards from known sellers with integrity above reproach.

As far as the rest goes, I am unusual, I know, because I read ebay listings and take responsibility for what they say if I miss something. If it says "reprint" right in the text it isn't misleading and there is no excuse for buying the item with a contrary assumption. It is at worst annoying since it is the equivalent of spam in the vintage card section. I run into this issue all the time in my practice with people who sign documents without reading them. The law is pretty clear that if you don't read the contract you are SOL when you find out you don't like the terms.

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Posted By: dan mckee

ok Adam, so are you stating that these auctions are not deceiving? Or just that the poor sap's that may get burned should be at fault because the word reprint is in the description? I can see your point, technically and legally the seller has protected himself. Morally he is trying to rip people off. Dan.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Any auction for a repro card that does not contain the word REPRO in the title of the auction is deceiving. PERIOD.

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Posted By: Kenneth A. Cohen

The appalling English notwithstanding, the guy is pretty crafty, I think. IMO, he interjects this to induce the notion that his card is perhaps an original that has "slipped through the cracks." Pretty slimy.