Ted Williams and Stan Musial....why are they missing in certain sets ?

[tedzan]

In a recent thread, the topic of discussion why Ted Williams and Stan Musial are included in certain major BB card sets, but not in others.
Back in the mid-1980's, when I was completing sets, this "mystery" sparked my curiosity, and I wrote an article about it.
Let's see what I recall. So, we'll start with 1941, the 1st year that both Stan and Ted were playing in the Major Leagues.

1941….Stan Musial's Major League debut was September 17, 1941. Just a couple of months after GUM, Inc. printed their PLAY BALL Hi #
series (#49 - 72), which was issued circa late Summer 1941.



1940's Exhibits

. .




1947 BOND BREAD






1948 BOWMAN........ no Ted Williams






1949 LEAF

. .




1949 BOWMAN........ no Ted Williams





1950 BOWMAN........ no Stan Musial





1951 BOWMAN........ no Stan Musial





1952 BOWMAN……….Ted Williams reported to Flight school at the Willow Grove (Pennsylvania) Naval Air Base for Jet aircraft training
before seeing action in Korea (1952 - 1953). See 1959 FLEER cards
.




1953 BOWMAN........ no Ted Williams






1954 BOWMAN.…….True story: Sy Berger (TOPPS executive) was an avid Ted Williams fan. Circa late 1953, in the design of the 1954 TOPPS set,
they designed the 1st and last cards featuring Ted Williams. When BOWMAN issued their 1st series of 1954 cards with Ted, Berger sued BOWMAN.
Forcing BOWMAN to discontinue printing their card of Ted. They replaced Ted's image with Jim Piersall for card #66 on their 32-card printing plate.
Speaking of "printing plates", stay tuned for the rest of this story in a subsequent post here. You'll find it very interesting.






1954 TOPPS > > 1958 TOPPS (Lo #s)........ only Ted Williams






1958 TOPPS…. Finally, TOPPS featured Stan Musial in their All-Star series (Hi # s)






1959 TOPPS Stan Musial....but, no Ted Williams






1959 FLEER……. I'll relate an interesting story regarding this set, as told to me in a personal conversation with Ted Williams (circa 1985 in Cooperstown).
Stay tuned here.









TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Peter_Spaeth]

52 Berk Ross -- both.
Weren't both in 52 Red Man?
54RH Musial only
54WF Ted only
60F Ted only
60T Musial only

[tedzan]

I guess I don't consider the 1952 Berk-Ross a major set.

Yes, everyone is in it, including Joe DiMaggio who did not give them permission to print his image.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[paul]

I've always found it interesting that when Williams appeared in a Topps se6 or a Bowman sett, Musial did not appear in either Topps or Bowman. And vice versa. I have no explanation for this. I also don't understand why there is no 1958 Topps regular issue of Musial. They obviously had the right to print his card since he appears in the All Star subset. Why not print a regular issue card too?

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's interesting that with the relatively few cards he has, and his obviously elite numbers, and his likeability, Musial cards tend to command so few $$$$ outside his 48 Leaf.

[commishbob]

Here is the '59 Stan The Man

edited to add...that red-billed cap was last sworn in 1955 if Dressed To The Nines is to be believed.

[ALBB]

Ted,
I recall..you recall telling a story of finding multiple 54B T Williams cards in one pack ….?? Is that right ?

[itslarry]

Originally Posted by paul

I've always found it interesting that when Williams appeared in a Topps se6 or a Bowman sett, Musial did not appear in either Topps or Bowman. And vice versa. I have no explanation for this. I also don't understand why there is no 1958 Topps regular issue of Musial. They obviously had the right to print his card since he appears in the All Star subset. Why not print a regular issue card too?

Clearly they are the same person

[ALR-bishop]

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrE...nt10S.O6WvQW8-

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ALBB

Ted,
I recall..you recall telling a story of finding multiple 54B T Williams cards in one pack ….?? Is that right ?

Hi Albert

This is true......in the 1980's, Larry Fritsch (well-known veteran dealer/collector) set up a Baseball card museum displaying his collection in Cooperstown, NY.
During our annual visit to Cooperstown on HOF weekend, we visited with Larry back then. He was an amazing resource of BB card knowledge and trivia. And,
he told us when he was a teenager in 1954, he recalled opening up a Bowman 5-cent pack and was quite surprised to find 5 cards of Ted Williams.

Apparently, the Bowman Co. was quickly "dumping" their Williams cards in response to the Topps law suit.






TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

For my story regarding the 1954 BOWMAN Ted Williams card refer to..... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=269275


TED Z
.

[Koufax32fan]

Don't forget these

[Leon]

No Musial in '58 Topps? Good question.

Ted- Nice info....thanks again for sharing!

Originally Posted by paul

I've always found it interesting that when Williams appeared in a Topps se6 or a Bowman sett, Musial did not appear in either Topps or Bowman. And vice versa. I have no explanation for this. I also don't understand why there is no 1958 Topps regular issue of Musial. They obviously had the right to print his card since he appears in the All Star subset. Why not print a regular issue card too?

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by Leon

No Musial in '58 Topps? Good question.

Ted- Nice info....thanks again for sharing!

No base card, but he does have an All Star card.
(apologies if this was mentioned already)

[Exhibitman]

I recall reading that Topps did not acquire rights to produce Musial cards until the middle of the 1958 season, so they made an All Star card to take advantage of it.

[Griffins]

No Jackie Robinson in 1951 in any issue. Never found a reason why.
Sure wish he'd been in '53 Bowman Color, but Topps had him locked down by then.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I recall reading that Topps did not acquire rights to produce Musial cards until the middle of the 1958 season, so they made an All Star card to take advantage of it.

That's my recollection as well; i.e. that the presses had already run on the lower series cards. Maybe they could have printed a regular card as #145, which was never issued, and included it on the high series sheet in place of one of the triple-printed Musial AS cards, although maybe they thought that would be confusing. Then again maybe Stan only allowed permission for use of one photo. Interesting question.

[ALR-bishop]

Although card 145 was not issued, and I am not aware of any proofs or prototypes for the intended card, it is listed as Ed Bouche on the checklist of the Senators team card in the set . Bouche had been suspended from baseball in 1958 after morals charges were made against him. Since his name was check listed to that number on a card in the set, using it for Musial may have been a non starter

[tedzan]

We need some more meaningful BB card related threads on Page #1, so let's continue this former interesting and informative thread.


Three shades of blue on these 1949 LEAF Stan Musial cards.





TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Maybe it's just the scan but this appears to be a slightly different shade.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

That's my recollection as well; i.e. that the presses had already run on the lower series cards. Maybe they could have printed a regular card as #145, which was never issued, and included it on the high series sheet in place of one of the triple-printed Musial AS cards, although maybe they thought that would be confusing. Then again maybe Stan only allowed permission for use of one photo. Interesting question.

That's one of my pet peeves about the 58 set. Topps could have issued #145 Musial.

[trdcrdkid]

The 6th series of 1958 Topps baseball came out in early July 1958. When Lionel Carter had a gathering of collectors at his house on July 9, 1958, Bob Solon (who was a part-time dealer as well as a collector) had just visited his wholesaler and brought a bunch of Series 6 cards, including the Musial AS card, which he gave out to whoever needed them. See this post:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=227505

According to Buck Barker's account in the September-October 1958 Sport Fan (shown in the post above), someone at the gathering wondered why Topps didn't issue #145 in the set now that Ed Bouchee had been reinstated. Barker suggested that collectors should write to Topps asking them to do that, though he appears to have been suggesting that they should make #145 the originally planned card of Bouchee, rather than a Musial.