Bad Collectors Insurance

[todeen]

I have American Collectors insurance to cover my collection. I also use them to cover my wife's classic car. The auto insurance side was fantastic when we had to use it after a crash last year. This gave me unfounded expectations for their "collections" side idf the business.

I had to file a claim on a card I ruined and the collection side of the company has been 1 out of 5 stars so far. Their website does not work. It will not register that I have two plans with them, therefore I can't file through their website. Everything must be by telephone. It has been 5 weeks and counting since I filed my claim. Zero communication. Two weeks after filing my claim, I had to call back and track down my claim handler.

He told me to submit information to xyz email and include my claim # in the email subject line. However, my email was rejected because I had a 12 digit claim#, and not 11 digits like their system was defaulted to.

I called back, and got the email issue cleared up. I had to send my info backdoor. So then he asks me to tell him the value of my card, and then to submit evidence of its value. That is easy enough, but I truly think if they don't know how to track down a valuation this might not be the business to be in if they must rely on the submitter to provide all info. If I was trying to commit insurance fraud, wouldn't this be an extremely easy way to do it? It just seems like they want to fail an external audit of business practices.

Waiting for some sort of communication stating whether my claim has been accepted or rejected. Close to 10+ days since last contact was made. No emails. No phone calls. No letters.

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[Snowman]

I use CIS, Collectibles Insurance Services. I've never had to file a claim yet, but I have dealt with customer service multiple times and they're always extremely helpful and great to work with. I would definitely recommend them based on my interactions.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I use CIS, Collectibles Insurance Services. I've never had to file a claim yet, but I have dealt with customer service multiple times and they're always extremely helpful and great to work with. I would definitely recommend them based on my interactions.

agreed CIS is where to go.

I used American Collectors for my classic car years back and they were good but was warned not to use for anything other than cars.

So I do not have experience on the other sides of their business.

Good Luck and hope it works out soon

[Jcosta19]

Sorry to hear of your problems.

I also have American Collectors insurance.
I have had some difficulty working with customer service in the past, especially when updating policies etc.

However the one time I had to make a small claim ($400 or so) it went very smoothly and was paid within a few days.

Hope yours is resolved quickly.

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[NATCARD]

I have used CIS for years. Have made a claim, no issues. Have adjusted insured amount many times due to fluctuation in inventory and also absolutely no priblem. The best! Jeff W

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by NATCARD

I have used CIS for years. Have made a claim, no issues. Have adjusted insured amount many times due to fluctuation in inventory and also absolutely no priblem. The best! Jeff W

Jeff...email me information on them. Maybe I should start using someone, eh? Is it affordable?

[brianclat11]

I have a follow-up question for you guys. My collection is growing but seems to be covered by personal property within my Homeowner's policy. What is the main benefit to getting additional coverage outside of that?

[NiceDocter]

You may want to be certain about that coverage as almost all personal property home owners plans have an exclusion for “art and collectibles “ after a low limit of maybe a few thousand dollars. Make sure whatever you get is in WRITING.

[Leon]

If it is not scheduled on your homeowners insurance (you pay extra) I think there is a great chance homeowners won't cover it. I use Safeco (Liberty Mutual subsidiary) and they definitely don't insure that kind of stuff UNLESS scheduled. And I am not sure they would do cards but I have jewelery and art scheduled...have had a claim or two and all was fine.

.

Originally Posted by brianclat11

I have a follow-up question for you guys. My collection is growing but seems to be covered by personal property within my Homeowner's policy. What is the main benefit to getting additional coverage outside of that?

[brianclat11]

Great info. Thanks guys!

[Yoda]

I worked in the insurance industry for 28 years, first with Cigna and then Chubb, although I dealt more with commercial lines rather than personal. The problems with insuring your collection under your HO policy are several; first, the limit under your HO policy is normally a percentage, usually 10-20%, of your personal contents coverage and rarely adequate for a decent collection, second, you really need a named player policy for your HOF'er and star player cards rather than the the blanket unnamed coverage under your HO policy. The problems really start at time of loss when trying to establish replacement cost. Obviously, you need to keep scrupulous records of book values for insurance and tax purposes when presenting a claim. The best approach is usually adopted is to use PSA and VCP auction results as to a guide towards replacement cost valuations. From what I have heard, Beckett's program is pretty good and will tailor a policy with the specific requirements necessary to protect fully your precious collection.
Hope this helps a little.

[Exhibitman]

It’s an insurer. Any decent size claim you have to expect to throw some elbows to get it done. Hell, I once had to raise the bad faith specter with State Farm to get a claim processed timely and just recently I had to open a complaint with my state insurance commission to get a simple call back from MetLife. Once you bring them to heel they settle down

[oldjudge]

You ruined the card and they cover it? That's s pretty generous policy,

[Snowman]

This is a pretty good video where a comic book collector interviews someone at CIS about insuring his collection through them and what they offer collectors. Worth a watch if you're interested in insuring your collection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i07G...CollectsComics

[DanP]

I just got off the phone with CIS. They provided a quote over the phone. I have been with American Collectors Insurance for over five years. I could not even get ahold of someone (phone or email) in March to try and raise my coverage. My dealings with them have been absolute torture!

CIS rates are much better than ACI. My insured value is almost double what it was with ACI and the CIS premium is only 10% higher.

I hope this helps!

[philliesfan]

About wo weeks ago, I went with CIS.
It gives me a little peace of mind now when it comes to being away from the house or from fire and theft.
I hope to never have to file a claim though.
Bob

[todeen]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

You ruined the card and they cover it? That's s pretty generous policy,

I was preparing it for sale, which I believe is covered. I got adhesive stuck to it and swore like a sailor in front of my children.

As for establishing value of card, my claim manager wanted three sources. I used VCP, ebay recent sales, and Beckett. Of the three, Beckett was the worst. They had not updated prices since 2018. Luckily the last sale reported on Beckett must have been a Probstein shill bid sale because it was higher than the VCP average sale price.

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[Snowman]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Jeff...email me information on them. Maybe I should start using someone, eh? Is it affordable?

I'm not sure how linearly the ratio scales, but I was quoted that $1,000 per year covered around $350k worth of collectibles unless you take out a dealer's policy, which I think was about double the cost.

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by todeen

I was preparing it for sale, which I believe is covered. I got adhesive stuck to it ;


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..Everybody does one of those nightmares once ; hard lesson learned ;.... Ever since my own ''incident'' I will not have any tape in the same room in which there is a baseball card or vintage photo.................it's been working. I still drop stuff though but I've learned to always work over a big soft fluffy towel ....always...

..

[brianclat11]

Originally Posted by Snowman

This is a pretty good video where a comic book collector interviews someone at CIS about insuring his collection through them and what they offer collectors. Worth a watch if you're interested in insuring your collection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i07G...CollectsComics

Good video that explains why Homeowners coverage is generally not enough. Thanks for that....

[jefferyepayne]

If you're looking around for better insurance, you might want to check out Antiques & Collectibles Insurance Group https://aciginsurance.com/

I've been using them for nearly a decade and check their prices every year against CIS and they are always lower. You do need to individually itemize and send them an image for any single item >$5K which is initially a bit of a hassle and for some collectors here probably too much work for the savings. I think CIS only makes you do this for items >$25K.

I have not filed any claims with them, though, so can't comment on the claims process. They are associated with an antiques association so would assume they are pretty decent to deal with for claims but don't have any proof of that.

jeff

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

If you're looking around for better insurance, you might want to check out Antiques & Collectibles Insurance Group https://aciginsurance.com/

I've been using them for nearly a decade and check their prices every year against CIS and they are always lower. You do need to individually itemize and send them an image for any single item >$5K which is initially a bit of a hassle and for some collectors here probably too much work for the savings. I think CIS only makes you do this for items >$25K.

I have not filed any claims with them, though, so can't comment on the claims process. They are associated with an antiques association so would assume they are pretty decent to deal with for claims but don't have any proof of that.

jeff

I will check them out

Thanks

[Yoda]

One further point about insuring your collection under your HO policy: We all have had a situation whereby a precious card suddenly can't be found, gone as if by mystic forces. We search everywhere, we are close to a panic attack, however, we remember our cards are covered by HO insurance, so we submit a claim. The insurer will always automatically reject it under the policy defense of "mysterious disappearance".
What is needed is a fine arts personal floater policy, Cobbs rather than Picassos, so that the cards are covered both inside the premises and out. "Mysterious disappearance" claims still may not be covered but the loss adjuster will at least listen to the circumstances and you might have a chance.

[egri]

Has anyone used USAA for collectibles insurance? I’ve never had a problem with them for my auto and home insurance.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by egri

Has anyone used USAA for collectibles insurance? I’ve never had a problem with them for my auto and home insurance.

I called USAA but was not impressed with their understanding of the risks and ability to explain coverage. I called CIS too and they were very knowledgeable but I ended up buying from Finklemeier Insurance Agency (FIA). They basically created the collector insurance market so they have a lot of experience, and I like that they place coverage with major insurance companies (my policy is issued by Markel).

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[todeen]

Originally Posted by egri

Has anyone used USAA for collectibles insurance? I’ve never had a problem with them for my auto and home insurance.

USAA contracts with American Collectors Insurance. I have USAA for checking and insurance. I asked about insuring my wife's classic car, and they told me to go through ACI. So I got collector car insurance with them, liked them for that, and decided to get card collectors insurance too. But as I said, their two divisions are night and day different.

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[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

I called USAA but was not impressed with their understanding of the risks and ability to explain coverage. I called CIS too and they were very knowledgeable but I ended up buying from Finklemeier Insurance Agency (FIA). They basically created the collector insurance market so they have a lot of experience, and I like that they place coverage with major insurance companies (my policy is issued by Markel).

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Interesting. Did you have any discussions directly with Markel? If so, were they knowledgeable?

The reason I ask is because my wife and I have horses and our homeowners policy is actually a farm policy issued by Markel. I'd love to add a collectibles rider on if I could. And, FWIW, my experience is that Markel is real easy to work with. I had to replace the roofs (rooves?) on my house and barn and the contractor was amazed at how easily Markel approved the claim and issued the check.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

..Everybody does one of those nightmares once ; hard lesson learned ;.... Ever since my own ''incident'' I will not have any tape in the same room in which there is a baseball card or vintage photo.................it's been working. I still drop stuff though but I've learned to always work over a big soft fluffy towel ....always...



..

I couldn't believe it when it happened. I was so upset with myself. Stupid stupid mistake. Thanks for the advice, I'll have to remember to use the fluffiest of towels.

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[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

Interesting. Did you have any discussions directly with Markel? If so, were they knowledgeable?



The reason I ask is because my wife and I have horses and our homeowners policy is actually a farm policy issued by Markel. I'd love to add a collectibles rider on if I could. And, FWIW, my experience is that Markel is real easy to work with. I had to replace the roofs (rooves?) on my house and barn and the contractor was amazed at how easily Markel approved the claim and issued the check.

Yes Markel has a good reputation. FIA is their managing agent so you should work through them. Jodi Muller is who I talk to.

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[Klrdds]

I have used Finkelmier ( FIA ) for 15 years and have been very satisfied with the rates , the coverage provisions , and their customer service . Plus Tom the father was / is a collector as well and understands the market and issues that collectors encounter . I highly recommend them . They’re issuing policies thru Markel now and so far no problems .

[todeen]

Update on insurance: it had been 12 business days since last communication with insurance on August 12. Acknowledgment of my claim started on July 10. On Aug 12, my claim was sent to managers. I decided to call my claim handler on Aug 31. He told me my claim had been accepted, but that no one had sent payment. He processed the payment while I was on the phone...I think... and told me to look for it next week after the holiday.

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[conor912]

Originally Posted by Yoda

One further point about insuring your collection under your HO policy: We all have had a situation whereby a precious card suddenly can't be found, gone as if by mystic forces. We search everywhere, we are close to a panic attack, however, we remember our cards are covered by HO insurance, so we submit a claim. The insurer will always automatically reject it under the policy defense of "mysterious disappearance".
What is needed is a fine arts personal floater policy, Cobbs rather than Picassos, so that the cards are covered both inside the premises and out. "Mysterious disappearance" claims still may not be covered but the loss adjuster will at least listen to the circumstances and you might have a chance.

Really?! The odds of me mysteriously losing a Cobb are about the same as me mysteriously losing one of my kids.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by todeen

Update on insurance: it had been 12 business days since last communication with insurance on August 12. Acknowledgment of my claim started on July 10. On Aug 12, my claim was sent to managers. I decided to call my claim handler on Aug 31. He told me my claim had been accepted, but that no one had sent payment. He processed the payment while I was on the phone...I think... and told me to look for it next week after the holiday.

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Glad it is working out
But Wow that seems long a very long process and persistence on your part.

Hopefully you see it next week

[chadeast]

Originally Posted by todeen

USAA contracts with American Collectors Insurance. I have USAA for checking and insurance. I asked about insuring my wife's classic car, and they told me to go through ACI. So I got collector car insurance with them, liked them for that, and decided to get card collectors insurance too. But as I said, their two divisions are night and day different.

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I am also with USAA, and they referred me to ACI as well. My conversation with ACI was disappointing. They wanted an itemized list of EVERY card that would be covered (no minimum value), and even worse they said that any time a card is out of my possession, any individual card could only be covered to a maximum of $2,000. This limit applied to sending off to be graded, having a purchase sent to you in the mail, basically any time a card you own was not directly in your hands. This is not what I'd heard about their policies before when readings posts on this forum. Something must have changed. Needless to say, I was unimpressed and chose not to use them.

[dfletch00]

well this is timely ... looking at it now ..

I have a rider with home on Chubb but also looking at Finkelmeier where underwriter is Markel insurance ...

Still wonder how they determine FMV ( fair market value ) in a market like this .. if they rely on dated publications or something more dynamic ....

Any help is appreciated
thanks

[todeen]

Originally Posted by dfletch00

Still wonder how they determine FMV ( fair market value ) in a market like this .. if they rely on dated publications or something more dynamic ....

Any help is appreciated
thanks

My claim handler had me send in three different pricing sources to verify my estimate of value. ACI accepted VCP's average sale price, although I also submitted Ebay comps and Beckett (not updated since 2018). Ask up front with the Finkelmaier(sp) broker how they do this. It seemed strange to me that my claim handler couldn't do this himself. But I guess that is similar as taking it to a body shop for an estimate.

[jingram058]

I have a rider with Allstate, updated with an itemized list that has photos, site valuation by my local agent, and coa's (specifically, Babe Ruth ball and Bob Cain ball about Eddie Gaedel). We also have itemized some of our other stuff, not just baseball. But just to be safe, I opened a local bank account in order to set up a safe deposit box. Moving some of the real high-value stuff there from time to time. As Leon says above, you pay for these services. But it isn't unreasonable.