Did I just discover that the Topps Dice Game cards are from 1963 instead of 1961?

[frankhardy]

I don't want to go out on a limb and say this definitively....but I will ask the question......did I just discover that the 1961 Topps Dice Game cards are actually from 1963?

So....as many of you know, I am a Cardinals team set collector. Like most advanced collectors, I have the impossible Dice Game cards on my want list. Before this evening, my list included the Stan Musial and the Bill White. Of course, I will probably never own those 2 cards, but it is nice to dream, right?

This evening, I get a text from a fellow Cardinals collector asking if I had seen the current Mile High Auction with the Dice Game Bill White and Dick Groat. I told him, no, but that I would check them out. Then, I said that Groat was a Pirate in 1961. He sent me a picture of the Bill White and also the Dick Groat. I looked real close, and sure enough, Dick Groat was in a Pirates uniform....but....an "STL" was painted on his hat! Whoa! Groat didn't play for the Cardinals until 1963. So, I did a little research and discovered that Dick Groat was traded to the Cardinals on November 19, 1962.

To me, that would totally rule out these cards being from 1961. There is only a small window for them to be produced in 1962 (November 19th - December 31st). It looks to me that these cards were released in 1963. I have never heard anyone talk about this before. Am I off my rocker?

Here is the Mile High Auction -

http://www.milehighcardco.com/1961_T...-LOT62671.aspx

[swarmee]

#toppstradamus

[frankhardy]

Que up the Twilight Zone theme!

[4reals]

Anxious to see the responses on your question! The real question is...are you going to bid?

[IMG]

via GIPHY

[/IMG]

[frankhardy]

Bid? Maybe. Win? Not a chance!

[cardinalcollector]

I think you are right on Shane. Groat is the only card in the set that helps date it. First pic I’ve seen of Groat.

[hcv123]

I believe Bob pointed out that many of the dice game cards have the same images as the small black and white shots on the 1960 Topps cards. I checked that the Mantle in fact does, but the Maz does not. The Groat appears to be the same except as the op pointed out the "Pirates" whited out and the logo on the hat changed. Not sure what it all means, but this sure is interesting.

[frankhardy]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I believe Bob pointed out that many of the dice game cards have the same images as the small black and white shots on the 1960 Topps cards. I checked that the Mantle in fact does, but the Maz does not. The Groat appears to be the same except as the op pointed out the "Pirates" whited out and the logo on the hat changed. Not sure what it all means, but this sure is interesting.

I went back and looked at the 2015/2016 thread. I saw where most of the 1960 Topps inset pictures matched up. Frank Robinson did not. I also saw where Dave suspected a 1962 or 1963 production because of the 1962 All Star game, but then Larry pointed out that Bill White and Tony Kubek did not make that team.

[jason.1969]

That would explain what this member figured out in an earlier thread. See pic.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk

[frankhardy]

Toppcat is Dave Hornish. Looks like he was already on it back in 2016. However, I think the Groat solidifies it.

[jason.1969]

Olbermann just added the Siebern card as further corroboration.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk