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#1
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Craig
Recently purchased 14 cards from a person in California that was advertising on Craigslist. Cards were supposed to be graded PSA cards. I resold some on Ebay and one was questioned by the buyer and returned. I sent that one along with 2 others from the lot to PSA for examination. They called on 1/7/07 to confirm that the cards as well as the PSA labels were fakes. All buyers of the cards I sold had been notified and have been refunded or are in the process of being refunded and are sending the cards back. My Ebay id is c.e.heafield and some of the cards can be viewed in my feedback. The FBI has been contacted and a case has been opened to try to nail this guy. As of January 2nd he had posted a new ad on New Yorks Craigslst for the same cards again. Cards I purchased were 1933 Goudey Ruth #53 PSA 5, T206 Cobb Re portrait PSA 6,t206 Cobb Bat on PSA 6,1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig #92 PSA6,1934 Goudey Gehrig PSA5, 1952 Bowman Mantle PSA 6, 1954 Aaron (2) Psa7 and one PSA 6,1955 Clemente PSA6, (3) 1956 mantle PSA 7. He had also offered a 1951 PSA4 Bowman Mantle,but we didn't come to terms. Cards looked alright to the naked eye,but under aloop the cards and labels looked questionable. Do not trust the cert.#'s, I checked them all on PSA's website prior to purchase and they all came up right. Who knows how many of these cards are out there,so look out. |
#2
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Steve Murray
Looked at the Bat On Cobb. Interesting that someone emailed you that the back was suspect but that there was no followup. To my eye even with the poor scans the card looks bad. Just more examples of too much reliance on the slab with little or no consideration of what's entombed therein. |
#3
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: stefan
I normally don't post, but i do read this message board all the time. |
#4
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: JK
I know that this really sucks and that you may very well be out a significant amount of money. However, I wanted to mention how refreshing it is to see someone who is willing to stand behind their sales and offer refunds when there is a problem rather than simply trying to pass the problem off on the buyer. |
#5
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: PC
Wow. You can tell from the scan of that Cobb card that, in addition to the back being wrong, the PSA logo should be in silver (but maybe that's just the scan). Just gets worse and worse. |
#6
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Eric B
Maybe the Registry should expand to include information such as "In private collection - not for sale" until such time as the seller wants to sell it and informs PSA. Or something similar. |
#7
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Red
There’s absolutely nothing that SGC and PSA can do to prevent criminals from using an imitation of their product to run a scam. You don’t even need a physical item to run a scam. All you need is a stolen image or Photoshop skills. |
#8
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: peter ullman
i saw some unusually old cards on craig's list last night too. Since they were listed in my hometown I figured they were being sold locally. There was a link to ebay which tipped me off that they were not. 40 Dimaggio, early 50's mantle, t202's. It seemed suspicious...good lluck. |
#9
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: barrysloate
Although I feel bad for Craig and hope he gets his money back, this comes close to being "too good to be true". I don't look at Craigslist but if I had cards of this quality and value, that would be an awfully odd way to be selling them. That alone should have rung a warning bell. |
#10
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Jimmy
I have had some bad experiences on Craigslist and stopped looking altogether, just seems to be more of setup for scams, even though eBay has problems as well. There just appears to be more issues and less trust when it comes to collectable items such as coins, sports cards and antiques. I did here about a year ago there was PSA counterfeit cards coming out of Japan that included Ruth and Cobb cards. |
#11
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Kevin Saucier
PSA has a small raised logo on the bottom corner of the slab: |
#12
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Craig
Person I dealt with was Jose Hernandez. Not everybody wants to deal with and there fees,so I didn't think to much about that end of it at the time. The cards were not priced so cheap that they would make you suspicious. Regardless, It is true I relied too heavily as others on the thought these were graded by PSA and were real. That is supposed to be our security so that we don't have to be an expert on every card to feel safe purchasing it. |
#13
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Craig
All the card I got had the raised PSA logo on the case. Somehow this perso figured out a way to open slabs and reuse them without ruining them, which I had thought wasn't possible. |
#14
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Kevin Saucier
"Somehow this perso figured out a way to open slabs and reuse them without ruining them, which I had thought wasn't possible." |
#15
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: stefan
Well the person whom i purchased from also had a very common name out in cali his name was rich Contreras. |
#16
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Steve
WoW!1 Sorry to hear about all this. |
#17
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth
Stefan and Craig, |
#18
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Craig
Address I was given was San Ysidro 92173, but I have 3 seperate USPS Express mail envelopes with zip codes of San Gabriel 91778,Alhambra 91802 and Arcadia 91006on the Postal service sticker. |
#19
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Kevin Saucier
"Kevin S has already showed us that buffing out the holder after it has been opened is very possible and leaves no evidence of it once having been sealed." |
#20
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Double-P-Enterprises
Normally I don't care about other people's problems but this is a major problem for any collector/buyer of vintage graded cards and any seller of graded cards. The T206 Cobb was easy to spot, the Ruth Goudey #53 looks questionable but the others are dead on and the holders are near perfection. I've been burned once on Ebay on a 33 Goudey Ruth and helped Joe Orlando take down a guy who was reholdering fake 52 Mantles in low grades. Both were easy to spot with a clear scan and even easier once you received the card/holder. I cannot fathom that all of the cards were fake and if they are, I am no longer comfortable buying or selling PSA graded cards and no one else should be. I consider myself an expert in this business and many of those I would not think to question. |
#21
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Brian Collie
I did a google search this weekend for "T3 PSA for Sale" - a bunch of listings on various craig lists from across the country popped up - pretty frightening to think I almost pulled the trigger. |
#22
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Eric
This is the same guy that Double-P-Enterprises pointed out (or if he's not the same guy, has the same cards listed). |
#23
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Brad Green
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#24
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: peter ullman
brad's right...i think 310 is west coast. |
#25
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth
PSA really needs to get involved in this but they won't. They barely got involved with the WIWAG ordeal and only did when they knew they could be found to have some liability. The manner in which they handled the whole mess showed they did not care about the public at all. |
#26
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Anthony S.
310 is western Los Angeles (the Santa Monica area) |
#27
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Shawn Chambers
Just noticed this same person ran the same cards with a 310 area code in the Lexington, KY craigslist as well back in November. Number is slight different, but definitely same list of cards. |
#28
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: SH
First the unscrupulous dealers in New York and Florida from the 80's through the 90's ( for those long term collectors you know exactly who I mean ) and now this. I'm kind of glad I moved to non-sports.....you folks have a very very serious issue here which could take down the entire hobby or kill your investments in baseball cards. Now you'll need to get your graded cards graded before you buy or sell. Look a new buisness to get into... "Babe Ruth" autograp anyone? |
#29
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Anonymous
Found this on Orlando Craigs list. Think it's the same guy? |
#30
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Mike Mccullough
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#31
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Double-P-Enterprises
After reviewing a bit more in depth and involving a couple hobby experts, the lot of similar cards on Ebay is without a doubt fake. The PSA labels are good and some of the best I've seen. But look carefully at the spacing of the condition (EX-MT). In almost all cases, legit PSA holders will have a space before and after the dash (EX - MT)(VG - EX) for example. As with any counterfeit, something is always missed (fortunately). |
#32
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: JimB
(310) is West LA. Somebody should notify the local authorities and set up a sting. This guy should be put in prison. |
#33
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth
310 covers far more of an area than West Los Angeles which is a very small section of Los Angeles. 310 area code covers at least 20 different cities in LA County. The prefix 739 is for Beverly Hills. I just called the number and it sounds like a standard Verizon voice mail box. |
#34
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Bobby Binder
I remember reading in a thread a while ago about a latino from the southern cal area doing this same thing and he got busted for it. Think he was located near a Lake....Elsinore maybe. Wonder if it is the same person same MO.. |
#35
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Kevin Saucier
Here are two examples I made tonight, just for this post. It shows that slabs can easily be cracked cards/flips replaced and rejoined without little or no frosting. I didn't have an SGC slab available but it's pretty much the same. |
#36
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: marty quinn
also all of them do not have the psa hologram on the back, all the cert #'s check out also, psa needs to find the owner(s) with those cert #'s and start bringing these bums down. if not this will only get alot worse and many people will get burned. all of those people uploading pics for their registry sets are also unknowingly supplying these scum of the earth with all they need. |
#37
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: marty quinn
kevin saucier- card detection i get. |
#38
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: stefan
contacted FBI and they told me to wait, it has been since March of 2007. |
#39
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Paul Moss
That's a pretty broad stroke of the brush to paint the CA crowd as being mostly crooked. I guess that the statement could be made for any state where one has had bad experiences. |
#40
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Steve
I agree with Paul. Many times people get scammed when they think they are ripping an item from someone else and they are actually the ones getting ripped. |
#41
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: PC
Kevin -- thanks for posting those. Frightening. |
#42
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: leon
I hope this is on topic enough for this thread but I have to say that the ebay fraud is so rampant that I have all but given up reporting it. It could be several folks full time jobs. Also, ebay will not take action if a card is in one of the big 3 or 4 grading companies (depending if it's Monday yet) holders. So this whole episode of fraudulent holders, flips, cards etc....that are encapsulated can NOT be reported as fraud. Yikes....It looks like the days of buying a card that is professionally graded, sight unseen, are almost over (if not completely over). Personally I very rarely buy a card sight unseen unless it's from someone I really trust. Most on this board fit that description...but few on ebay do....regards |
#43
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: scott levy
Gents, |
#44
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: boxingcardman
"Craig's list? Craig's list? Are you kidding me? Anyone with a modicum of intelligence is aware that the site is nothing more than a total trash sale, whores offering their services, knock-off products, fakes, defective products, the occasional retail item being resold at too high a price by the unknowing and ignorant, as well as every scam in the book all to be offered in one place. It's a toxic dump that on the best of days, would make an EPA hazmat team shake in their boots. Are people really naiive enough to think that they have "discovered" an opportunity to make a killing by buying ultra-liquid cards at a bargain level by jumping on an advert at this site? Sorry, nothing personal, but you'll get no sympathy from me. Craigs List receives nothing in the way of a percentage, or fee of any kind, so frankly, I hold them blameless. Do you really believe that any sophisticated collector is going to sell valuable cards via this method? That's like meeting Leon behind the local 7-11 and buying from the trunk of his car. I just don't see this scenario becoming reality." |
#45
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Red
"It looks like the days of buying a card that is professionally graded, sight unseen, are almost over (if not completely over)." |
#46
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Red
"I know this is kind of obvious....but if you paid with a credit card, have you tried to get the card company to reverse the charge? I know from experience that amex has been very helpful to me and my dad in dealing with fraudulent purchases." |
#47
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: barrysloate
Because the marketplace is so polluted with scammers it might not be a bad idea to do as much, if not all business, with people you know or who have been selling on ebay consistently and for a long period of time. With Craig's list, I would guess everyone is a one shot seller. |
#48
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Eric
"301 is the area code for Maryland, not 310". |
#49
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Steve
Could PSA get a more secure holder? Why should they? If they do that, they lose out on all the re-subs. That is why we have a 'tamper - evident holder. |
#50
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PSA counterfeit cards!!! Beware
Posted By: Kevin Saucier
The toughest part of forging a flip is getting unique bar codes. For kicks, I thought I would line these up to show they were cloned. Not quality work IMO but concerning. I know...it doesn't mean much. |
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