1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth sells for more than the T206 Wagner

[brian1961]

Ty Cobb - lots of wonderful cards, with lots of scarcities

Babe Ruth - few cards, period. But then we have this card, technically a pre-rookie, with great eye appeal and rarity, that does not transact very often. It has a lot going for it.

Mickey Mantle - many, many cards. Many, many scarcities. Many, many condition rarities. Identifying the profile of what issues have scarcity, rarity, condition rarity, fabulous eye appeal, and media coverage would make prudent research for a collector-investor. Media coverage can change, good or bad, depending on a lot of things. Think about it for a moment, in regards to Mantle--the 1952 Topps is the Mantle card written about 90 per cent of the time. Perhaps more than that. Why aren't some of the other Mantle cards profiled and spotlighted? I honestly think it is because the hobby writers had either one-track minds, were too shallow, stupid, or lazy to put forth the effort to research other Mantle gems. But really, I have been involved with journalism, there are deadlines, and the luxury of time is rare. Then again, if you have no one willing to be interviewed, what Mantle are you going to turn to? '52 Topps. An interesting observation I have noticed, when I was a kid, people asked, do you have a card of Babe Ruth? Today however, people ask, do you have a card of Mickey Mantle?

Honus Wagner - Other than his T-206, which has been a hobby legend since I suppose Jefferson Burdick placed a much higher value upon it in the original AMERICAN CARD CATALOG, there are lots of cards, cabinets, and discs. In the case of the PSA 8 Wagner, its aura became discolored due to Bill Mastro's admission it was hand-cut from a strip. But most of us figured this was the case years ago. Personally, I agree with the few who countered with, simply re-slab as a PSA 8 HAND-CUT. An exception should be made for the Gretzky-McNall Wagner, that is so far and away above the rest condition-wise. For this card, yes. However, the high-grade Wagner's effect upon his other cards has been interesting. Their value arched up because of the T-206. Then again, I am not a pre-war guy, and I'm certain they place him, rightly so, among the top players of that era.

Too many people still equate statistics with who should also then be the number one in most valuable collectibles. Again, lots of factors---where they played, impact on the game or who got to play, and performed stupendously, before National TV. I remember well in 1971. Still the masses did not seem to grasp how special Roberto Clemente was. The '71 Series changed that.

Jackie Robinson's numbers are not cited really. But anyone with an ounce of BB history and social history might understand why his 1950 uniform recently sold for $400,000. Others with much higher numbers sold way way below that.

Many of the cards discussed here are all great. Time will tell. If anyone has conversed with a collector having a 7-figure annual budget about what motivates them, please share. That would be interesting. If you cannot name a name, fine. But please sing it out. I seriously doubt it is all that mysterious. That coffee table book by Steven Wang was insightful. It is typical of the wealthy--they want things that are elegant, stand out, and are not easily obtained. With regard to the card hobby, they have often been driven to the big names, and their beautiful scarce cards, or cards in extraordinary condition. The generated threads along the lines of "if you could have ...? all pretty much bare out what the affluent desire--we all know the difference that allows one to pursue the dream cards and those who can only dream about them. Ownership of such expensive cardboard carries its own problems, pitfalls, and responsibilities.

Back to the actual subject. OK-so the Baltimore News Babe Ruth garnered a higher value. This hobby ought to have place for at least a dozen, or seven perhaps, great cards at the highest level. Wagner has gotten SO MUCH press through the years of the adult hobby's growth from the 1970s-on. I believe the general hobby did not even know of the Baltimore News Babe Ruth's existence until the mid-to-late-80s. Looking at the card, I can well appreciate why it took off price-wise. Barry Sloate brought up a vital point---Wagners are offered 3-4 times a year, whereas the Baltimore News Babe was coming along once a year at REA, then stopped. Now, perhaps once every 2-3 years. Someone else pointed out the vast difference in the population between the two--with anywhere from 4-7 of the T-206 Honus for each one of Babe. The exclusivity for each one is well-established. But, the fact remains the Baltimore News Babe Ruth is far and away rarer. Nothing new there. Collectors do not collect Baltimore News. We all know that most of the pre-war guys collect T-206. The difference?

Most of the guys collecting T-206 cannot afford the Wagner. The wealthy go for the jugular; they'll get the very best for its importance, value, exclusivity, and their own personal satisfaction. Most all of us would want a great card of the Babe. Maybe I am greatly mistaken, but there are relatively few great Ruths to choose from. For instance, how about a great card from '20, '21, or his legendary '27 season? There are some--the Headin' Home cards, and a few exhibits. The answer is best epitomized by an exchange by Moe and Curly in one of their many classic comedies, "Three Little Pirates":

Moe: "You gotta something else?"

Curly: "NAHHHTING!"

Moe: "Nahting?"

Curly: "Youx." (pronounced "YOKES", WHICH TRANSLATES TO "YES")

Moe: "Ooh Boy."

It's too bad. But the Goudeys are great cards, and there are some others. The Baltimore News Babe Ruth, a regional issue, fills the bill on so many fronts---fantastic appearance, scarcity, rarity, terrific story. It bares all the ingredients for a card to rival and sometimes beat Honus in value. The opportunities are few on this one. The fight was on. "Ze Blood Ran In Ze Streets."

'Nuf said.

Gotta go. -Brian Powell

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Zone91

The 52 Topps Mantle is like Detective comics # 27 the 1st appearance of Batman and the Babe Ruth is like Action comics # 1 the 1st appearance of Superman people will never forget those like they will never forget these 2 baseball players.

There is NO way Barry Bonds with 762 homers will EVER be collected like Ruth or Mantle same goes for Hank Aaron....much less people talk about Aaron than Mantle even if Aaron was a much better player...that is why true legends will always be popular and collected.

Post # 5

??? How is the second card of Mantle the same as the first issue of Superman or Batman?

I don't know if Mantle prices will drop as people who remember him die off, but he's certainly no Babe Ruth, Gehrig or DiMaggio.

A lot of young guys forget that in the '80s baseball cards became fairly worthless compared to what they had been. Same thing happened to comic books in the '70s. So what if Rose was the hit leader and Bonds was the HR leader - neither has a card from the '50s or earlier.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Runscott

??? How is the second card of Mantle the same as the first issue of Superman or Batman?

I don't know if Mantle prices will drop as people who remember him die off, but he's certainly no Babe Ruth, Gehrig or DiMaggio.

A lot of young guys forget that in the '80s baseball cards became fairly worthless compared to what they had been. Same thing happened to comic books in the '70s. So what if Rose was the hit leader and Bonds was the HR leader - neither has a card from the '50s or earlier.

I would certainly put Mantle at the same level as all four of those players from both a numbers standpoint and mystique standpoint (for lack of a better word). The fact that the 1952 Topps card is not his first card means nothing. In actuality it is his 5th or 6th card issued, but I would still consider it his rookie (but that would be a post-war discussion). I don't know anything about comics, but I'm sure whatever analogy Adrian made has some sort of baring.

The 1952 Topps Mantle card will never go down in value relative to the hobby, same as the BN Ruth and t206 Wagner.

I would personally consider the BN Ruth to be the most valuable card in the world right now. I would consider the PSA 8 Wagner to be the most valuable single card in the world and I would certainly consider the PSA 10 Mantles to be up there as well.. $1-1.5 million if I had to guess.

The 1952 Topps Mantle has much more value past the fan appeal. It is arguably the most iconic image in the hobby (certainly the most iconic post war image). Mantle will always have that draw to collectors, not just because his numbers or legendary power or his accolades, but because he is one of the most popular players to have played the game. He's not just going to go away.

Jason

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

but I'm sure whatever analogy Adrian made has some sort of baring.

OK

[Zone91]

Runscott

I just mean that even do Batman is not # 1 and Superman is that does not mean people will ever forget about Batman (By the way in the last few years Batman is becoming more popular than Superman it is a back and forth thing in the last few years). Or you can say Mantle is like the most important silver comic with Spider-Man's 1st appearance in Amazing Fantasy # 15 in the very early 60's if you prefer....Spider-man is and will be popular for a long long long time to come. You can then use Detective # 27 for the T206 Wagner and Action # 1 for Ruth's 1914 Baltimore news cards....no matter all 3 characters will always be popular even if new comic book characters appeared after them...why because they are legendary in their own way.

To me the 2 most famous and popular baseball figures are Ruth and Mantle just the way it is. It will never be Barry Bonds and say Derek Jeter (most likely to beat the all time hit record in a couple of years) just won't happen....the 52 Topps image is known by almost the whole planet and that says a lot about it's future....this can't be said about MOST other collectibles...I know I have collected comics and coins for years. Everyone I know in Canada knows what the 52 Topps Mantle looks like (same thing with action comics # 1 and detective comics # 27 and Amazing Fantasy # 15) and also know it's importance in the hobby....and we are not even a baseball nation like you guys in the U.S.

Yes Thor, the X-Men and the Fantastic Four have their place as well but not like the Batman, Superman and Spider-Man!!!

Like the Mona Lisa painting once a image becomes the iconic image of a certain hobby USUALLY it stays that way.

On another note I am not collecting for money so the future potential does not bother me what does is that Mantle stays a part of baseball history and that he his remembered as the legend he was and still his....I believe without the famous image of the 52 Topps (rookie card or not) card he would be much less appreciated in the hobby today rarely does a SINGLE card have such a impact like that one does...it's power to draw people in when seen the image is incredible....the same can be said about the T206 Wagner!!!

Post # 12

[Jason]

Cool to see an Amazing Fantasy reference here.

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by Zone91

Like the Mona Lisa painting
Post # 12

I've seen the Mona Lisa, and a '52 Topps Mantle is nothing like the Mona Lisa. In any way whatsoever. Compare the Mantle to comic books all you want, I can understand the analogy there. But the Mona Lisa? Nah.

[Julz24]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

I've seen the Mona Lisa, and a '52 Topps Mantle is nothing like the Mona Lisa. In any way whatsoever. Compare the Mantle to comic books all you want, I can understand the analogy there. But the Mona Lisa? Nah.

Same here. Although I had to look over and thru 20 heads to get a glimpse.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Julz24

Same here. Although I had to look over and thru 20 heads to get a glimpse.

It was certainly a let-down. Fortunately there are plenty of photos of it that do it more justice than the Louvre display, although I understand their need to protect it.

I'm assuming it's still behind a thick piece of plastic - I haven't seen it since the '90s.

[Zone91]

I just mean that the Mona Lisa is the KING in the art world same as the 1914 Babe Ruth or T206 Wagner and they are not going anywhere even if a few generations pass away....I simply feel the same about Mickey Mantles and his legendary status as the modern day king of baseball....truly many have better careers than Mantle but no to many care about those players and that is why Mantle was a legend of the game he was bigger than the game and still is and will continue to be.

Post # 3

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Zone91

I just mean that the Mona Lisa is the KING in the art world same as the 1914 Babe Ruth or T206 Wagner and they are not going anywhere even if a few generations pass away....I simply feel the same about Mickey Mantles and his legendary status as the modern day king of baseball....truly many have better careers than Mantle but no to many care about those players and that is why Mantle was a legend of the game he was bigger than the game and still is and will continue to be.

Post # 3

Too late Adrian, you've already got us running with a tangent.

Also, be careful - I think a few members are trying to trick you into wasting your posts on trivial subjects.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Runscott

It was certainly a let-down. Fortunately there are plenty of photos of it that do it more justice than the Louvre display, although I understand their need to protect it.

I'm assuming it's still behind a thick piece of plastic - I haven't seen it since the '90s.

I saw it in 1972. All they used were ropes to keep the crowds back. No glass, no case. They did prohibit flash bulbs, though. And for all the hype, it really was a letdown. Give me some Monets any day.