Slightly OT/Big Lead Story About Upper Deck

[Rich Klein]

I know this should belong in the modern card section; but since many of us collected Upper Deck cards in earlier years I posted this one here. Presented without comment, although many of these comments have been written in other hobby sources.

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/...of-upper-deck/

Regards
Rich

[ScottFandango]

I like many here apparently, are products of the 80's collecting boom (84 mattingly donruss anyone)

I still have thousands and thousands of 1987 Topps sitting in boxes, unable to part with them....

I think UD made it for one main reason....they choose the right player to be the #1 card in their inaugural set.....a smiling ken Griffey jr that ushered in the new powerhouse...UD

There is no mention when they jumped the shark: the 2004 leaf exhibit set with the dizzying array of serial numbered short prints for the entire set...EVERY CARD WAS SERIAL NUMBERED UNDER /100....that is when MLB set their sites on revoking their license ...

[Rich Klein]

Donruss -- now Panini did that Leaf set you mentioned. UD had nothing to do with that product.

Rich

[ibuysportsephemera]

If you want more on the story...the book Card Sharks by Pete Williams is pretty good.

[slidekellyslide]

Thanks for the link...I had never heard of Upper Deck counterfeiting their own cards...I also had no idea that McWilliam had died this year. Very interesting read.

[Jay Wolt]

Eventually something caught up with him. McWilliam, 59, was found dead at his $3.7 million Rancho Santa Fe, Calif., mansion on January 5 of this year. The medical examiner noted that he had been “vomiting for for the past few days and was binge drinking

Rich thanks for posting this.
I didn't know McWilliam had died this year.
As stated earlier Card Sharks was an eye opening book about the greed of Upper Deck.
It was a shocking book at the time.

[MVSNYC]

Very interesting read...just to clarify, what exactly did they counterfeit? was it real product, but they just made more than advertised (on the limited releases), or they literally forged cards? didn't fully understand that.

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Very interesting read...just to clarify, what exactly did they counterfeit? was it real product, but they just made more than advertised (on the limited releases), or they literally forged cards? didn't fully understand that.

Rich, it was donruss, you are right....see how confusing it was!!! Ha

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Very interesting read...just to clarify, what exactly did they counterfeit? was it real product, but they just made more than advertised (on the limited releases), or they literally forged cards? didn't fully understand that.

I think in essence they made more then advertised. I remember that French Hockey, we were going crazy for it up here in the Northeast for awhile. Boy, did it crash and burn hard. I wouldn't be surprised if they made even more then what was stated in the article.

[HRBAKER]

Another sad tale of greed.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Very interesting read...just to clarify, what exactly did they counterfeit? was it real product, but they just made more than advertised (on the limited releases), or they literally forged cards? didn't fully understand that.

They did it twice, or at least that's how many times they got caught.

The first was canadian hockey- limited run, for a limited market. But then packs started showing up with a different assortment of cards. 620 original cases, 900+ cases printed for company insiders.

Then in 2007-8 "fake" rare yugio cards were turning up in retail boxes made by Treat. Looking into it Treat said they got them all through manufacturers, not from dealers. Which led directly back to UD. UD finally admitted reprinting heir own stuff to sell to Treat.

Both were mentioned in the article.

I suspect there were a few other instances. We'll probably never know for sure.

I always laugh when I hear the old "unlicensed cards are worthless because they can be reprinted at any time". Right, because a license is what makes it something that can't be reprinted Proven false, but still believed.

More interesting is the production number for -if I'm reading it right - 1990 of 3 Billion baseball cards. That makes for 3.75 Million of each.

Steve B

[ctownboy]

Wasn't it also alleged that a few years after the Ken Griffey Jr card was released and had skyrocketed in price that someone at Upper Deck had thousands more printed off and kept some for themselves and gave (sold cheaply?) others away to influential friends?

David

[Exhibitman]

Card Sharks covers it all; a must-read.

What everyone seems to forget is that the UD product was beautiful. Just so many great looking pictures, front and back, on that '89 set. If it looked like '81 Topps no one would have cared. They also invented the signed chase card.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Card Sharks covers it all; a must-read.

What everyone seems to forget is that the UD product was beautiful. Just so many great looking pictures, front and back, on that '89 set. If it looked like '81 Topps no one would have cared. They also invented the signed chase card.

They did make a nice card, although I never really took to them. I think at the time the thin cardboard made them feel cheap even with the hologram and better printing than other brands. (To me anyway, lots of people really like them)

By the mid-late 90's, their standard product seemed like they weren't making much effort. The usual nice picture with a foil name. I did like some of the higher end stuff, SP and eventually SPX mostly for the die-cuts and the SPX layered look.

I bought a couple packs of the semi- unlicensed Goodwin cards they made a year or two ago, pretty disappointing considering what they'd been able to do in the past.

The new semi licensed stuff might be interesting.

Steve B

[midwaylandscaping]

From 89-93 they made some nice looking cards. Good pics, very nice.
After that, it was by the numbers.

[Rich Klein]

The 1988-89 Score sets were beautiful as well. Full color photos on both sides. 1989 UD was just a better set, as it was also beautiful AND made with the best card stock at that time. And better times were just around the corner for UD. It's been a fun ride and I agree, Card Sharks is a must read for the background to the Big Lead story.

My Sports Collectors Daily story -- no advancing of that story, just some more random notes

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...nd-upper-deck/

Rich

[whitehse]

I traveled to the Field of Dreams show that was mentioned in this article and set up at the card show the Upper Deck sponsored for that event as well. My kids still talk about the great time they had and it was 20 years ago. There was the show, a baseball game of baseball greats and a evening of entertainment with many Hollywood "stars" of that time period.

What really hit home to me about that article was that I was able to have a rather long conversation with Jay McCracken at that show as he sat at my table going through a large pile of 1992 Leaf black border cards I had for sale. He was putting this parallel set together for his own collection and I always found it curious that this Upper Deck Executive was putting together a set from another competitor at the time. I found Jay to be a genuine guy who loved what he was doing and was happy to talk about the company to anyone who would listen. I knew he left the company but I had no idea he was fired three days after this event.

[rhettyeakley]

I have very vivid memories selling at card shows in New England in 1991 how high the demand was for the French Upper Deck product. Packs were $20-30 each or more and I remember selling a Pavel Bure or Sergei Federov for more than $100. Then a few shows later it seems like everyone had the product and the prices were still high but they came down fast after that. Seems like any time there was a hot new Upper Deck product they started with a lower print run then flooded the market a few months later.

It sounds like the CEO was a real pos doing what he did to his customer base and rightfully had the rug pulled out from under him after a while. Too bad they didn't use a bit more common sense instead of applying the Gordon Gecko tactics that they did.

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by whitehse

I traveled to the Field of Dreams show that was mentioned in this article and set up at the card show the Upper Deck sponsored for that event as well. My kids still talk about the great time they had and it was 20 years ago. There was the show, a baseball game of baseball greats and a evening of entertainment with many Hollywood "stars" of that time period.

What really hit home to me about that article was that I was able to have a rather long conversation with Jay McCracken at that show as he sat at my table going through a large pile of 1992 Leaf black border cards I had for sale. He was putting this parallel set together for his own collection and I always found it curious that this Upper Deck Executive was putting together a set from another competitor at the time. I found Jay to be a genuine guy who loved what he was doing and was happy to talk about the company to anyone who would listen. I knew he left the company but I had no idea he was fired three days after this event.

I guess we now know why he was fired!

[Rich Klein]

Actually some of the brand manager at Fleer way back in the day also bought boxes of their competitor's products, that way, they could see what the competitoin was doing. But yes, something strange in that but I understand why.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

[/B]

I guess we now know why he was fired!

Of course, that's much more egregious than printing more product for yourself and self dealing!