1989 Fleer Randy Johnson #381 Marlboro Errors - 30 Years Later

[bnorth]

I find it crazy how little these are discussed. It is the rookie card of a HOFer with multiple error versions. Like the Ripken from the same set I absolutely love all the Randy Johnson error versions and have horded them for many many years.

I personally hated Randy as a player, I collect them because of all the cool variations. I can't be the only one that hated him because IMHO these should sell for WAY more than they do.

Hatorade, When you get the site updated please post it on here with a link.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Sorry for my ignorance on this topic, but I can't see the difference between the two images. Which one contains the obstruction you are referring to and what am I looking for?

Thanks in advance for your help.

AndyH

[Hatorade]

They are really fun cards to collect and rather affordable to do so. I heard about the errors around 10 years ago and thought it was really strange to not hear about a major 80's error until so much later and that such little was known about the cards 20 years after their release. They sure have flown under the radar a bit and maybe these two factors have contributed some to that.

I think its interesting that 2018 Topps cards have over 15 parallels with different colors, Fleer kind of did that with these cards 30 years ago and now this much later modern card companies are artificially recreating this for collectors. The Marlboro variations can almost be viewed as the much older predecessor to these modern variation cards, but with unknown production numbers for the specific variations.

[Hatorade]

Andy,

Sorry, both of those are examples of cards with the rectangle area from the obstruction on them. I uploaded 100 or so images onto my Flickr account before I realized that my remaining images were in pdf format and that I needed to have them as JPEG to upload. You can view multiple images of variations that either have or don't have the rectangle in the area left and above Randy's head there.


https://flic.kr/s/aHsmccCSY8

[JoeDfan]

Wow. I thought I had all the versions already.
Now I have to go home and dig them out again.

[JustinD]

I admit I have several copies but the faint differences are such minutia compared to the mostly easily identifiable Ripken differences make the Ripken so much more fun in my mind.

I think many collectors just need one copy and are satiated, but end up with the Ripken in uncensored first and then end up with scribbles, black box, white outs and sawcuts rather quickly.

Interested in hearing you talk about it to perhaps bring me to a new train of thought. Please add more info as the big Randy collectors and now you and Bnorth.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I admit I have several copies but the faint differences are such minutia compared to the mostly easily identifiable Ripken differences make the Ripken so much more fun in my mind.

I think many collectors just need one copy and are satiated, but end up with the Ripken in uncensored first and then end up with scribbles, black box, white outs and sawcuts rather quickly.

Interested in hearing you talk about it to perhaps bring me to a new train of thought. Please add more info as the big Randy collectors and now you and Bnorth.

The very slight differences will drive you crazy with these cards. I have started to catalog them several times and never get it done. It was many years ago so my # might be off a little, At one time I had around 18-20 different versions cataloged.

Considering the extremely short period of time they printed them compared to the Ripken. They had to be making changes to it every few days with some done daily.

I will leave the so called completely clear sign version out of this. The rarest version IMO is the green scribble(scan). I have found 3 distinct versions of just this variation.

1) The blob/scribble covering Marlboro This is the version pictured.

2) Same as above with added black bar through the middle of the blob/scribble.

3) This one took me a few years to find. This one only has the black bar and you can clearly see the tops of the l and b in Marlboro.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by Hatorade

Andy,

Sorry, both of those are examples of cards with the rectangle area from the obstruction on them. I uploaded 100 or so images onto my Flickr account before I realized that my remaining images were in pdf format and that I needed to have them as JPEG to upload. You can view multiple images of variations that either have or don't have the rectangle in the area left and above Randy's head there.


https://flic.kr/s/aHsmccCSY8

Hatorade,

Are the slightly darker rectangular boxes that I've circled what you are talking about? Again, sorry for my ignorance here, I'm just trying to learn something new.

Thanks again,

AndyH

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

Hatorade,

Are the slightly darker rectangular boxes that I've circled what you are talking about? Again, sorry for my ignorance here, I'm just trying to learn something new.

Thanks again,

AndyH

Yes those are the rectangles he is referring to.

[Hatorade]

Andy

Yes, as Ben confirmed, those are two examples of the rectangles. The rectangles can be very faint as well as others that are more prominent. I was hoping someone could answer if this is an obstruction from something that was possibly a small piece of cardboard or from something else during the printing process. Would the area be progressively effected as the item got in the way and essentially caused a more prominent rectangular stamp on the cards from the area continually being blocked? Also, if there was an item obstructing the printing process once it was removed would the rectangular area instantly disappear? Anyone's help here would be greatly appreciated.

Ben

I think you are essentially correct on those green scribble versions. Is the attached image pretty close to version #3?

I also wanted to take step back and post a link to our fellow board member's site with a ton of info on the Marlboro errors. The site has been essential for knowledge on these cards and moving the general discussion forward on them. I think the site probably lead to some of the flip changes at BGS, which is really cool. There are 13 cards pictured in the article and I wanted to get Dylan, Ben and others' opinions regarding the cards pictured all being different variations or if, for example, the two green or red cards pictured are the same card with slight differences resulting from something that Fleer had done inadvertently.

https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/20...ro-variations/

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Hatorade

Andy

Yes, as Ben confirmed, those are two examples of the rectangles. The rectangles can be very faint as well as others that are more prominent. I was hoping someone could answer if this is an obstruction from something that was possibly a small piece of cardboard or from something else during the printing process. Would the area be progressively effected as the item got in the way and essentially caused a more prominent rectangular stamp on the cards from the area continually being blocked? Also, if there was an item obstructing the printing process once it was removed would the rectangular area instantly disappear? Anyone's help here would be greatly appreciated.

Ben

I think you are essentially correct on those green scribble versions. Is the attached image pretty close to version #3?

I also wanted to take step back and post a link to our fellow board member's site with a ton of info on the Marlboro errors. The site has been essential for knowledge on these cards and moving the general discussion forward on them. I think the site probably lead to some of the flip changes at BGS, which is really cool. There are 13 cards pictured in the article and I wanted to get Dylan, Ben and others' opinions regarding the cards pictured all being different variations or if, for example, the two green or red cards pictured are the same card with slight differences resulting from something that Fleer had done inadvertently.

https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/20...ro-variations/

Yes from your picture that looks like the 3rd version.

Dylan has a great site, the green scribble I have pictured is from his site. I have a horrible time getting scans that show the Marlboro section clearly.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

With the Johnson and Ripken there are several distinct variations made where the original plate was altered. That is clear.
It is important to keep in mind that cards are printed on a printing press - and it is an imperfect process. Sometimes there is too much of one color ink and too little of another. Sometimes there is ink spray. Sometimes a plate moves and the colors are out of register. There may also be human error involved. There may be bleeding, smudging, etc, etc. If you look at 100 examples of the any one card, you can find lighter, darker, blurry, crisp, yellow tint, red tint, and so on.
Johnson had a few different versions - but those are limited to the actual alterations on the plate. The others have to be classified as print defects.

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

With the Johnson and Ripken there are several distinct variations made where the original plate was altered. That is clear.
It is important to keep in mind that cards are printed on a printing press - and it is an imperfect process. Sometimes there is too much of one color ink and too little of another. Sometimes there is ink spray. Sometimes a plate moves and the colors are out of register. There may also be human error involved. There may be bleeding, smudging, etc, etc. If you look at 100 examples of the any one card, you can find lighter, darker, blurry, crisp, yellow tint, red tint, and so on.
Johnson had a few different versions - but those are limited to the actual alterations on the plate. The others have to be classified as print defects.

While this is true for many scrutinized and popular variations, this is not so simple regarding the Randy Johnson changes. In fact, my blog noting 13 variations is just meant as a simplified guide to the amount of distinct “types” which there are definitely more than four of even when removing print flaw/plate shift type aberrations from the equation.

I have personally seen far more variations in these cards than I had at the point of publishing that article. If you take a decent size sampling of any one of the major “types” I.E. “red box” “green tint” etc etc, you’ll find that there are several variations within each. Real variations where alterations were made to the plate as efforts to obscure the sign. Shape of the bar over the word, box size, and saturation and density of coloring/masking over sign area and on and on. These are NOT the same as color tone differences due to different ink levels and plate alignment. After 16 years of studying thousands of copies of these cards, I am very confident that there exists at least a couple dozen unique versions of this card.

And finally, for the record, I am no longer confident that a clear version ever made its way into packs. The one and only image I’ve seen, also shown on my blog, no longer feels convincing to me that photoshop wasn’t involved. I’d like to be wrong and with this card, anything is possible but I remain skeptical.