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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)

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  #1  
Old 06-14-2021, 06:50 PM
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Default 6 HOF RCs in one year

1991 may never be topped:
Mussina
C. Jones
Thome
P. Martinez
Bagwell
I. Rodriguez

I think I only came up with one year where there were 5, 1957:
F Robinson
B. Robinson
Bunning
Drysdale
Mazeroski

But I may be missing something.

2018 has a lot of promising players, we'll see.
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  #2  
Old 06-14-2021, 07:01 PM
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If you use Beckett, T206 has like 30 of ‘em
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  #3  
Old 06-14-2021, 07:04 PM
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This is a post-war section, son.
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  #4  
Old 06-14-2021, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
1991 may never be topped:
Mussina
C. Jones
Thome
P. Martinez
Bagwell
I. Rodriguez

I think I only came up with one year where there were 5, 1957:
F Robinson
B. Robinson
Bunning
Drysdale
Mazeroski

But I may be missing something.

2018 has a lot of promising players, we'll see.
1957 also includes RC of Whitey Herzog.
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  #5  
Old 06-14-2021, 08:10 PM
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1957 also includes RC of Whitey Herzog.
True, but to my mind that doesn't count.
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  #6  
Old 06-14-2021, 09:06 PM
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Okay, next step is figuring out the most collectible RC for each player.

How much will you give me for a nicely centered 1991 Topps Chipper Jones PSA 8?
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  #7  
Old 06-14-2021, 09:21 PM
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Okay, next step is figuring out the most collectible RC for each player.

How much will you give me for a nicely centered 1991 Topps Chipper Jones PSA 8?
Interesting question, monetarily would be 51 Bowman, I think next would be 54 Topps.
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  #8  
Old 06-15-2021, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Casey2296 View Post
Interesting question, monetarily would be 51 Bowman, I think next would be 54 Topps.
I think it is 1949 Leaf, 1951 Bowman, 1955 Topps, 1954 Topps, 1952 Topps.
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  #9  
Old 06-15-2021, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
If you use Beckett, T206 has like 30 of ‘em
If you use PSA, 1949 Leaf has 9 because they think the set was released in 1948 despite all of the cards having stats from the 1948 season. The real number is 5 with the other 4 having 1948 Bowman cards.
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  #10  
Old 06-15-2021, 03:03 PM
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How about years with none? 1953, right? And only one from 1956 and 1958 and 1959 (counting only players not managers). 1950, none also I think.
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  #11  
Old 06-15-2021, 03:11 PM
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No rookies in 1955 Bowman either are there?
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  #12  
Old 06-15-2021, 03:13 PM
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No rookies in 1955 Bowman either are there?
No but I was thinking in terms of years not sets.

Also none in 1970. 1985?
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  #13  
Old 06-15-2021, 05:22 PM
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1988 weighs in with 5: Alomar, Biggio, Glavine, Smoltz, and E. Martinez.
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  #14  
Old 06-16-2021, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
No but I was thinking in terms of years not sets.

Also none in 1970. 1985?
1985 has Kirby Puckett.
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  #15  
Old 06-16-2021, 09:26 PM
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1985 has Kirby Puckett.
No, 1984 has Kirby Puckett. I don't buy that XRC nonsense Jim Beckett came up with. IMO, his only RC is 1984 Fleer Update.
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  #16  
Old 06-16-2021, 10:02 PM
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No, 1984 has Kirby Puckett. I don't buy that XRC nonsense Jim Beckett came up with. IMO, his only RC is 1984 Fleer Update.
Who is your rookie in 1986? Agree to disagree on Puckett. It was the hobby and collectors not Beckett who decided that rookie cards had to be available to the majority of collectors and not regionals or limited releases like 1984 Fleer Update.
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  #17  
Old 06-17-2021, 12:14 PM
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You're right, no 1986 either, although I suspect McGriff and/or Bonds eventually will make it.

I just don't see how you can call a 1985 Puckett a rookie when he has a nationally distributed card from a top three brand in 1984, but whatever.
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  #18  
Old 06-17-2021, 12:15 PM
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Who is your rookie in 1986? Agree to disagree on Puckett. It was the hobby and collectors not Beckett who decided that rookie cards had to be available to the majority of collectors and not regionals or limited releases like 1984 Fleer Update.
So why is 1992 Topps Traded Garciaparra indisputably his rookie card? And 1991 Topps Traded Bagwell and I Rod? And the 1989 Griffey traded and update cards? And the 1988 Alomar and Biggio traded and update cards? The only difference I see is that Beckett dropped the XRC after 1987.
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Old 06-17-2021, 01:01 PM
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All disputes in this thread may be attributed to rookie mistakes.
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  #20  
Old 06-17-2021, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
You're right, no 1986 either, although I suspect McGriff and/or Bonds eventually will make it.

I just don't see how you can call a 1985 Puckett a rookie when he has a nationally distributed card from a top three brand in 1984, but whatever.
Calling a set that most card shops didn't order and was never available at retail a "national" distribution is a stretch. Michael Jordan's RC is universally recognized as the 1986 Fleer and not the Star issues that had similar distribution problems and were the only NBA license at the time.

1986 Topps Traded was the first set of its kind to have any type of wide spread distribution. That would be differentiating point to me. Sets that are restricted from the collecting public intentionally by manufacturers don't meet the RC definition. A RC should be widely available to the hobby, not just to a select few.
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  #21  
Old 06-17-2021, 03:46 PM
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I collected all Topps, Fleer and original Bowman sets. A lot of folks do not think you need the Traded/Update sets to be complete. I do but have no idea how many set collectors have the 84 Fleer Traded set. I would bet however that every Kirby Puckett master collector has his 84 Fleer card
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  #22  
Old 06-17-2021, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
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Calling a set that most card shops didn't order and was never available at retail a "national" distribution is a stretch. Michael Jordan's RC is universally recognized as the 1986 Fleer and not the Star issues that had similar distribution problems and were the only NBA license at the time.

1986 Topps Traded was the first set of its kind to have any type of wide spread distribution. That would be differentiating point to me. Sets that are restricted from the collecting public intentionally by manufacturers don't meet the RC definition. A RC should be widely available to the hobby, not just to a select few.
It won't come as any surprise that I view the 101 as Jordan's true rookie.

I'll go with first officially licensed card in a major league set. I think that works across the board for me but maybe there are exceptions. Qualities such as "readily available" are too subjective for me.

How do you feel btw about cards in Topps Tiffany and Fleer Glossy sets? Those were intentionally restricted, yes?
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  #23  
Old 06-17-2021, 06:24 PM
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It’s pretty simple: rookie card = first card. That’s the whole draw of rookie cards, to have the player’s first card. And, of course, I’m not including minor league issues since they’re a whole different ballgame. The whole XRC thing is and always was nonsense. If you really think 1985 is the year for rookie cards for Kirby Puckett, Roger Clemens, Dwight Gooden, etc., then you just don’t get it.
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Old 06-17-2021, 09:14 PM
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It’s pretty simple: rookie card = first card. That’s the whole draw of rookie cards, to have the player’s first card. And, of course, I’m not including minor league issues since they’re a whole different ballgame. The whole XRC thing is and always was nonsense. If you really think 1985 is the year for rookie cards for Kirby Puckett, Roger Clemens, Dwight Gooden, etc., then you just don’t get it.
So with that mindset, is the 2009 Bowman Chrome Trout considered his RC? Or is it 2011? I've always though of 2011 as his rookie year and not 2009. Same way I think 1985 is Puckett's rookie year and not 1984.
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:52 AM
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So with that mindset, is the 2009 Bowman Chrome Trout considered his RC? Or is it 2011? I've always though of 2011 as his rookie year and not 2009. Same way I think 1985 is Puckett's rookie year and not 1984.
The 2011 cards are his RC, first year in the majors. The Bowman 1st cards have become popular, but those players are in the minors, and those sets are correctly labeled as Draft Pick, etc, and should be viewed as a minor league card. But, first cards have been and remain popular. Derek Jeter in 1992, Joey Votto in 2002, and Mike Trout in 2009.

And then there was MLB and Topps decision to create the official RC stamp that creates further confusion about 1990 RCs.

Because Topps Traded in the 1980s are generally recognized as RC, I consider any 1980s Traded set to be a RC. I disagree with XRC labels.

Note: this argument is meant solely for modern 1980 - present.

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Old 06-18-2021, 10:04 AM
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1954 Topps was pretty spectacular in terms of quality: Aaron, Banks, Kaline. All are top-tier HOFers.

1975 Topps had a pretty good run too: Brett, Yount, Rice, Carter.
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Old 06-18-2021, 10:20 AM
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The 1949 Bowman set has a lot more rookies than I remembered too:

Campy
Early Wynn
Robin Roberts
Richie Ashburn
Duke Snider
Bob Lemon

And could break the tie at 6 if Hodges ever gets in.
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Old 06-18-2021, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
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1954 Topps was pretty spectacular in terms of quality: Aaron, Banks, Kaline. All are top-tier HOFers.

1975 Topps had a pretty good run too: Brett, Yount, Rice, Carter.
1955 -- Koufax, Killebrew and Clemente.
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Old 06-18-2021, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
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1954 Topps was pretty spectacular in terms of quality: Aaron, Banks, Kaline. All are top-tier HOFers.

1975 Topps had a pretty good run too: Brett, Yount, Rice, Carter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
1955 -- Koufax, Killebrew and Clemente.
1951 Bowman had Mantle, Mays, and Ford.
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Old 06-18-2021, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
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No, 1984 has Kirby Puckett. I don't buy that XRC nonsense Jim Beckett came up with. IMO, his only RC is 1984 Fleer Update.
Here, here!

XRC is sham, 1985 Mcgwire is not an XRC and is not even a major league card...

The emperor has no clothes over there in their designations.

For me personally, I consider the first card issued in a major league uni the RC and agree fully that includes the Star sets, the 86' Fleer is years away from being a RC and easily the most overvalued and over hyped card in the hobby other than the 2nd year 1952 Mantle which is first place hands down.

I know that not everyone has the same thoughts nor do I expect them to. These are my thoughts and beliefs and I would personally never call either a rookie.
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Old 06-18-2021, 04:37 PM
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The '49 Bowman set also has Larry Doby and George Kell, along with Jackie Robinson and Satchel Paige, whose true rookies are up for debate, considering that the 1948 Leafs came out in 1949.

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
The 1949 Bowman set has a lot more rookies than I remembered too:

Campy
Early Wynn
Robin Roberts
Richie Ashburn
Duke Snider
Bob Lemon

And could break the tie at 6 if Hodges ever gets in.

Last edited by Chris Counts; 06-18-2021 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 06-18-2021, 05:02 PM
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What in high mother effin' heck is XRC??? The "RC" part has gotta be 'Rookie Card,' but 'X'??? Is this some sort of a modern collecting acronym???
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Old 06-18-2021, 05:16 PM
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Who is your rookie in 1986? Agree to disagree on Puckett. It was the hobby and collectors not Beckett who decided that rookie cards had to be available to the majority of collectors and not regionals or limited releases like 1984 Fleer Update.

Unless Beckett asked every collector, then it is Beckett who made the final determination.

That premise established by Beckett is slowly being chipped away. 1984 Fleer Update Roger Clemens and Kirby Puckett are their rookie cards and are far more desirable cards than any of their 1985 cards. The fact they were harder to obtain makes it even appealing...not worse. As long as they are baseball cards, and not photos or something, how they were distributed (widespread or not) is meaning less and less in the eyes of many collectors. At this point, I prefer the regional and/or tougher issued cards. The 'traditional' counterparts get a little boring since there are so many of them in circulation.

The 'true rookie card' has always been a moving target and viewed differently by everyone and is a contrived notion much like the Holiday of Sweetest Day is...so it doesn't really matter at that point.

What it comes down to is if the 1984 Fleer Update is a better card than any of the 1985 issues. I say 100% yes they are. The fact they are more rare is a far more appealing factor than what Beckett says is a rookie card or not...but to each their own. Nobody will convince anyone who already has their mind made up on that topic anyway.

Last edited by HistoricNewspapers; 06-18-2021 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 06-18-2021, 07:24 PM
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What in high mother effin' heck is XRC??? The "RC" part has gotta be 'Rookie Card,' but 'X'??? Is this some sort of a modern collecting acronym???
X for extended.... Some liked the update sets, and considered them the rookie cards. But then more dealers came along who were just dealers and didn't know cards and often didn't qualify to buy direct from Topps or any of the other companies. They complained (whined) that they couldn't just buy the update sets so they shouldn't count. And regionals shouldn't count, and ......

So Beckett settled on a sort of fake definition, which I've reworded somewhat cynically.

Rookie card- A card issued sort of near the year a player debuted in the league, and was also sold in quantities large enough that every dealer who wanted to could capitalize on the hype.

XRC - A card issued possibly in the players actual first year, but sold to actual businesses, not just guys working out of their garage and the local flea market. OR that were available to any dealer but most of them didn't think the player had potential/had their cash tied up in the football release and didn't buy any.

By 88 it was just silly. Score rookies counted, because there were a ton of them avialable through Toys r Us etc. I forget which year Topps started selling the update set in packs, so they counted after that, while companies that didn't still got the XRC designation.

Going by the logic of "it should only count if everyone could buy it" ...
75 minis were regional, so a 75 Brett is a RC while a 75 mini Brett shouldn't be.
Many areas were serviced by distributors that didn't buy the high numbers. So high numbers were in fact regional and shouldn't count. (but they do!)

To my mind, once the hobby progressed into a somewhat more major hobby the whole RC thing became stupid.
Old days, most kids only collected for 3-4 years, and only the big stars or favorite players survived the wrath of mom. So while Mantle got saved, that kid in Milwaukee (Aaron) probably didn't.
Say around 1977 and people bought hundreds of Joe Charboneau figuring he would become a big star. Since then at least nearly every rookie card has been hoarded and saved in huge qauntities. I would go so far as to say that 89UD Griffeys are more common than any other 89UD card.
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Old 06-18-2021, 07:52 PM
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Here, here!

XRC is sham, 1985 Mcgwire is not an XRC and is not even a major league card...

The emperor has no clothes over there in their designations.

For me personally, I consider the first card issued in a major league uni the RC and agree fully that includes the Star sets, the 86' Fleer is years away from being a RC and easily the most overvalued and over hyped card in the hobby other than the 2nd year 1952 Mantle which is first place hands down.

I know that not everyone has the same thoughts nor do I expect them to. These are my thoughts and beliefs and I would personally never call either a rookie.
I would call McGwire a RC because it's in a Topps set, I don't care about the ML uniform thing.

Agreed on 101 vs 57.
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Old 06-18-2021, 08:11 PM
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Here, here!

XRC is sham, 1985 Mcgwire is not an XRC and is not even a major league card...

The emperor has no clothes over there in their designations.

For me personally, I consider the first card issued in a major league uni the RC and agree fully that includes the Star sets, the 86' Fleer is years away from being a RC and easily the most overvalued and over hyped card in the hobby other than the 2nd year 1952 Mantle which is first place hands down.

I know that not everyone has the same thoughts nor do I expect them to. These are my thoughts and beliefs and I would personally never call either a rookie.

Amen.
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Old 06-19-2021, 04:04 AM
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1991 may never be topped:
Mussina
C. Jones
Thome
P. Martinez
Bagwell
I. Rodriguez

I think I only came up with one year where there were 5, 1957:
F Robinson
B. Robinson
Bunning
Drysdale
Mazeroski

But I may be missing something.

2018 has a lot of promising players, we'll see.
One thing that kind of puts me off on 1991, compared to earlier sets like 1957, is that there is no one set which has all those guys init. Like Topps is missing Mussina, Bowman is missing Pedro, UD is missing Thome, Fleer is missing almost everyone, etc.
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Old 06-19-2021, 08:50 AM
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One thing that kind of puts me off on 1991, compared to earlier sets like 1957, is that there is no one set which has all those guys init. Like Topps is missing Mussina, Bowman is missing Pedro, UD is missing Thome, Fleer is missing almost everyone, etc.
Funny, to me that makes it that much better.
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Old 06-19-2021, 09:39 AM
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For a player collector maybe, but not a set collector. On the other hand, if you are a set collector the RC debate does not matter as much

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 06-19-2021 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 06-19-2021, 09:56 AM
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Then in 1982 Topps has Ripken in the regular set and the traded set. In my mind the three card rookie card is his actual rookie card but the traded card sure gets a lot of attention as being his rookie card.

Last edited by butchie_t; 06-19-2021 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 06-19-2021, 01:00 PM
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Then in 1982 Topps has Ripken in the regular set and the traded set. In my mind the three card rookie card is his actual rookie card but the traded card sure gets a lot of attention as being his rookie card.
Slightly different topic, but I actually prefer when a player has a rookie card that is shared with other players. To me, it captures the time when the player was not known or good enough to even have his own card...capturing the essence of what it means to be the 'rookie'....sort of a baseball card hazing of a rookie .

I love that aspect of the Pete Rose rookie card...and that card takes it even further by not even giving him a neck in the photo, lol.

The 82 Topps Traded clearly came after the three player card. Some like the Traded card because of the opposite of what I said above. It is also less plentiful, and that probably accounts for it being more valuable.
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Old 06-19-2021, 01:35 PM
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In 1962 Gaylord Perry had his own rookie card. In 1963 he shared a card with three other players.
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Old 06-19-2021, 01:49 PM
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In 1962 Gaylord Perry had his own rookie card. In 1963 he shared a card with three other players.
Yes indeed. Then some guys get two years being on a multi-player rookie card like Dale Murphy.

Off topic, but I hope Murphy is the one guy from the 80's that gets HOF nod from the veterans committee at some point.

It is funny how the HOF criteria of "character and sportsmanship" is used against candidates for enshrinement, but never used FOR enshrinement. Maybe it is time to change that and put that criteria to positive use and apply it to Murphy to put him over the top.
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Old 06-19-2021, 02:32 PM
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Bill Davis was on a Topps Rookie card in 1966, 1967, 1968 and 1969 ( all multi players)

Lou Piniella appeared on Topps Rookie cards in 1964, 1968, 1969 ( multi players) and 1970 ( stand alone Rookie Award)
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Old 06-19-2021, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
Bill Davis was on a Topps Rookie card in 1966, 1967, 1968 and 1969 ( all multi players)

Lou Piniella appeared on Topps Rookie cards in 1964, 1968, 1969 ( multi players) and 1970 ( stand alone Rookie Award)
Wasn't Bill Davis on 5 cards? He was also in the 1965 Topps set, #546.

Dick Simpson was on a rookie card 4 times: 1963, 1964, 1965 and 1966.

Mike
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:48 PM
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Another pertinent excerpt from my 'New Collectorisms' thread...

59. Small Photatoes
Players who are so easily forgotten about that they appear on rookie cards in multiple years.

See also: Knucklestaller - the person at Topps who decided Gaylord Perry should appear on a multi-player rookie card the year after he had his own ‘regular’ card.
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Old 06-20-2021, 08:49 AM
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How many HOF players have appeared on more than one Rookie Stars card(2 or more players on a card). I can think of Niekro quickly not sure how many more.
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Old 06-20-2021, 09:31 AM
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Wasn't Bill Davis on 5 cards? He was also in the 1965 Topps set, #546.

Dick Simpson was on a rookie card 4 times: 1963, 1964, 1965 and 1966.

Mike
Al used to be infallible.
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Old 06-20-2021, 09:33 AM
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How many HOF players have appeared on more than one Rookie Stars card(2 or more players on a card). I can think of Niekro quickly not sure how many more.
If he ever gets in, Tony Oliva.
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Old 06-20-2021, 11:03 AM
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1978 Topps can get up to five HOF rookies with Lou Whitaker getting a lot of support.

Same for 1975 Topps with Keith Hernandez getting a lot of support.
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