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  #1  
Old 06-10-2021, 10:37 AM
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Default 1940 Diamond Dust Punchboard Cards - How rare are these?

Hello....been looking for a Greenberg for a while now and never seen one....they are relatively inexpensive in the Standard Catalog but I've only seen a few for sale over the years....anyone familiar with these? What punchboard were they available in? any input appreciated....Michael.
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Old 06-10-2021, 10:45 AM
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One of my 'pet' sets. Throw the catalog out the window on them. They are rare, so if you want a specific player you just have to pay up. I have been collecting them for about 20 years. The most I ever saw at once was 3-5 and they were all from the same find. I have never seen a Greenberg for sale. I've seen:

Averill
Camilli
Dean
Dickey
DiMaggio
Feller
Grove
Hartnett
Hubbell
Johnson
Klein
Newson [sic]
Ott
Travis

As for which board they were in, I know but if I told you I would have to kill you because I am searching for them actively.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 06-12-2021 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 06-10-2021, 10:54 AM
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Haha! Thanks for the information....that is very helpful....without divulging which card can you tell me if it was only 1 card or more than that? Do you think the SC checklist is possibly faulty or they had an actual source for that? if 1 card, and you have seen/owned one, does the entire run of players come from that card so that an unused card would have the entire "checklist" of cards? thanks again...I really appreciate it....I'm thinking Greenberg shows up on the list but if it exists is very questionable....
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Old 06-10-2021, 08:03 PM
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I suspect SCD built its checklist off a board front from one of the boards that does not actually contain the cards. Either that or they used the Exhibits salutations to make it up.

Also, I added a few confirmed to the list. I am only listing the ones I have visual evidence of. Speaking of which:






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Last edited by Exhibitman; 06-10-2021 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:13 PM
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Thanks for posting the pictures....just amazing! Hopefully we will figure it all out one day....
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  #6  
Old 06-10-2021, 09:45 PM
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A Hartnett has now been spotted on the internet.

Brian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg diamonddustpunchboardhartnett 001.jpg (35.0 KB, 521 views)
File Type: jpg diamonddustpunchboardhartnettback 001.jpg (24.5 KB, 515 views)
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  #7  
Old 06-11-2021, 05:15 AM
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SO Yeah - these things are really cool!

Quick check shows a Feller 1 of 1 PSA A on the feePay - asking $4K

https://www.ebay.com/itm/37349823298...oAAOSwPm5gTnrD
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Old 06-12-2021, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianp-beme View Post
A Hartnett has now been spotted on the internet.

Brian

Added to the list above, thanks.

Amazing how few of these have the original white borders intact. FWIW, total PSA pop is 32 cards of which 31 are "A". And this one:



PSA has 27 different and for the OP has a record of one Hank Greenberg.

PSA's auction function reports one sale, a Gehringer in 2019 by PWCC for $72. Scott B sold a Dean in 2014 for $24.75 (sigh).

All of which reinforces my initial premise: these things are rare.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 06-12-2021 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 06-15-2021, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Added to the list above, thanks.

Amazing how few of these have the original white borders intact. FWIW, total PSA pop is 32 cards of which 31 are "A". And this one:



PSA has 27 different and for the OP has a record of one Hank Greenberg.

PSA's auction function reports one sale, a Gehringer in 2019 by PWCC for $72. Scott B sold a Dean in 2014 for $24.75 (sigh).

All of which reinforces my initial premise: these things are rare.
Does anyone have an unpunched Diamond Dust game board? If some of these paper cards can be going for that much and are that rare, then what would an unpunched game board with all the player cards still intact possibly be worth? Guess that would be like finding an unopened pack of cards from back in the 30's or 40's. Except, wouldn't the unpunched Diamond Dust game board likely have all, or at least a majority, of all the cards in the set still locked inside? Or would it possibly be worth more to punch all the paper cards out?

Last edited by BobC; 01-14-2023 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 06-16-2021, 10:17 AM
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There were some game boards on eBay in the $200 to $400 range. No clue to if they are vintage or reproduction.
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Old 06-16-2021, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTDean View Post
There were some game boards on eBay in the $200 to $400 range. No clue to if they are vintage or reproduction.
That was why I was asking. If an original one with the paper cards still intact could be acquired for so little, you'd expect someone to buy them and punch out the individual cards to sell.

Does anyone even know how to tell if a particular punchboard has the baseball player cards inside it, or what the ones that do definitively look like? In the SCD catalog description they merely state the punchboard was for a 5 cent per chance/selection Diamond Dust game from 1940 with 624 punch holes or spots on it, and that the paper cards were a consolation prize to someone if they didn't get lucky and pick one of the correct punch holes to get one of the the fifteen different player cards that resulted in a $1 prize then. Based on that it would seem that each of the 624 punch holes would have a paper card in it then, with the 15 different listed $1 prize winner player cards limited to no more than a few per punchboard so whoever was seller the chances could make money off the card. That would leave the player cards in the remaining punch holes to likey be filled with a mix of cards of the other 18 players from off the 33 player checklist shown in the SCD catalog. In that case, even if every one of these paper player cards was only worth a few dollars each, with 624 cards per punchboard, that should easily make any complete, unpunched punchboard of this variety worth at least a couple thousand dollars, if not more.

And based on the SCD catalog description, it would seem likely the checklist was put together by someone acquiring and then punching open all 624 spots on the punchboard to see what player cards were in them. The SCD catalog checklist notes that 3 of the 15 different $1 winning player cards are unconfirmed (Joe Cronin, Red Ruffing & Rudy York). I'm guessing then that those 3 player's cards were listed as $1 winners on the face of the punchboard itself, and that is why they are still included in the checklist, though unconfirmed. If that is the case, and yet no one to date has found an example of any of those 3 player cards, isn't it possible there are also still unknown/unchecklisted cards of other players that were not winnig cards? Would seem to make sense at least.

The SCD catalog description also stated that earlier and later versions of Diamond Dust punchboards, that apparently also used these same or similar paper player cards, also existed, but were not checklisted in the catalog. That would seem to open up the possibility of there being even more unknown and unlisted Diamond Dust player cards out there beyond just the ones that were found and checklisted in the SCD catalog from the sole 1940 Diamond Dust punchboard card version they to chose to use. Truth is, if you do an online search you'll find a large number of different versions of these Diamond Dust punchboards were made over a number of years. No telling how many different versions were ever actually produced, or how many different player's may have actually had cards made of them.

I actually have a small collection of these gambling punchboards, including many baseball related ones that are generic and don't list player names or have images or cards of them included and given out as prizes. None of these were put out by Diamond Dust. However, I also do have one actual Diamond Dust baseball punchboard that is completely untouched and unpunched. It even still has the unbroken seal on it that covers the hollowed out space on the back of the punchboard where the actual punch key still rests. And like the 1940 Diamond Dust punchboard described in the SCD catalogs, it is also a 5 cents per play game. However, unlike the punchboard described in the catalogs, mine only has 600 punch holes (24 rows of 25 punch holes), and only lists 12 winning $1 players:

Feller
DiMaggio
Fox (misspelled with only one X on the punchboard)
Selkirk
Derringer
Ruffing
Greenberg
Lombardi
Werber
Herman
French
Frey

The 1940 SCD catalog's listed punchboard version included 15 winning players, with only DiMaggio, Foxx (spelled correctly), Ruffing, and Lombardi shown as $1 winners on both there's and my punchboards. The Selkirk, Derringer, Werber, Herman, French, and Frey winners listed on my punchboard are not included at all on the SCD's 1940 punchboard checklist.

My punchboard is not that large, measuring only about 5-1/4" wide by about 7-7/8" tall. A copy of the exact version I have was sold in a Huggins and Scott auction that ended back on 3/31/2011, lot #713, if you want to see what my version looks like. My actual one does not have the instruction sticker on the back, but does have the intact punch key cover/seal and another sticker that indicates it is size 600 R and also shows a hand written serial number and operator number, along with a hand checked box indicating the ticket color was white, out of four different choices also including blue, pink, and yellow. Never was sure what the ticket color referred to. It didn't go for very much in the 2011 auction either. And then maybe strangest of all, my punchboard is only about 9/16" thick. The SCD catalog describes the Diamond Dust cards as being printed on a ribbed paper measuring about 1" X 1-3/4", which pretty much conforms to any images of these paper cards that I've ever seen. But with my punchboard being only about 9/16" thick, there's no way any 1" X 1-3/4" paper card would fit into the punch holes on my punchboard, unless maybe the paper cards were also somehow folded in half? But if that were done, you would think the fold mark would be clearly visible as it would have to run perpendicular to the fold marks from the ribbed paper used. I've never seen such a fold mark on any Diamond Dust card or image I've ever come across before. So that makes me wonder if these Diamond Dust cards ever came in smaller sizes, or how they actually were originally folded and placed in the punch holes then. Anyone have any clues or ideas, or ever gone ahead and tried punching one of these cards out of a punchcard before? Would love to hear/see any info out there.

Last edited by BobC; 06-16-2021 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 06-16-2021, 05:55 PM
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If my memory is correct, there hasn't been an unpunched board found that could've held these cards as the boards are not thick enough to fit them. My memory has been known to be faulty at times though.
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Old 06-16-2021, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe View Post
If my memory is correct, there hasn't been an unpunched board found that could've held these cards as the boards are not thick enough to fit them. My memory has been known to be faulty at times though.
And that's why I brought this all up. Something doesn't make sense when you look at the cards and all the punchboards still out there. So now I wonder what exactly is in all these unpunched punchboards that are still out there. Surely someone has to have one of these that has been partially punched so they could go ahead and punch one more out right now to see exactly what is in them, without having to ruin an unpunched game board.
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Old 06-16-2021, 07:22 PM
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We had a similar conversation in another thread. Essentially proved that the cards were too wide to fit into most boards. I bought one and opened it and got nothing but numbered pieces of paper.
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Old 06-16-2021, 08:13 PM
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We had a similar conversation in another thread. Essentially proved that the cards were too wide to fit into most boards. I bought one and opened it and got nothing but numbered pieces of paper.
Thanks for confirming that. Did you specifically buy a Diamond Dust punchboard though, and if so, did it also have a list of ballplayer's names on it that were shown as $1 winners? Assuming so, I would think that the slips for winning selections would have at least had the ballplayer's names on them, if not images. How else would they have identified the winning selections then?
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Old 06-16-2021, 08:58 PM
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There are myriad DD boards. Only a specific version has the cards. Beyond that I won't say since I am chasing one perpetually.

Every card that is a prize will be in an intact board because the guaranteed payout is the attraction of the device.

As for value, the ones without the cards are of minimal value. One with the cards, well into four figures if the seller knows it or two bidders figure it out.
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Old 06-16-2021, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
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There are myriad DD boards. Only a specific version has the cards. Beyond that I won't say since I am chasing one perpetually.

Every card that is a prize will be in an intact board because the guaranteed payout is the attraction of the device.

As for value, the ones without the cards are of minimal value. One with the cards, well into four figures if the seller knows it or two bidders figure it out.
So is it just the one 1940 punchcard version listed in the SCD catalogs that had the cards, or are there others, but you aren't going to share the info because you are looking for these cards for yourself? If so, no problem, I get it.

Because of the dimensions of these cards and their being printed on ribbed paper, I imagine the giveaway to possibly finding a Diamond Dust punchboard with the actual paper cards still in it is to find one that is at least 1" thick then, if not even really a little thicker than that. Since the cards are about 1" wide and never been seen with a fold mark on them running perpendicular to the horizontal ribs in the paper used to make them, the cards could have only been inserted into a punch hole that was at least 1" deep. Thus the need for the Diamond Dust punchboard to be at least 1" thick then to have any chance of containing the actual cards. I've seen Diamond Dust punchboards over the years, but never one that I remember being quite that thick. Which just supports the fact that these cards and punchboards are very rare.

Thanks Adam and good luck in your collection of these Diamond Dust cards.

Last edited by BobC; 06-16-2021 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 06-16-2021, 11:21 PM
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We've catalogued at least fifty different varieties of baseball-themed punchboards -- including five variations
of those with Diamond Dust titles made by at least two and possibly three-four different manufacturers.
We couldn't guess which ones contain the little paper player-cards, but we did venture a theory in another thread
as to how they could fit in the punchboards' holes/sockets -- fold the paper up accordion fashion, as was obviously
done, then roll the resultant narrow strip into a tightly wound coil and insert that into the hole.
This way the boards themselves need be only as thick as the accordion fold of the cards is wide.
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Old 06-17-2021, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch7999 View Post
We've catalogued at least fifty different varieties of baseball-themed punchboards -- including five variations
of those with Diamond Dust titles made by at least two and possibly three-four different manufacturers.
We couldn't guess which ones contain the little paper player-cards, but we did venture a theory in another thread
as to how they could fit in the punchboards' holes/sockets -- fold the paper up accordion fashion, as was obviously
done, then roll the resultant narrow strip into a tightly wound coil and insert that into the hole.
This way the boards themselves need be only as thick as the accordion fold of the cards is wide.
Hi Butch,

Funny you posted on this thread. Talking about the Diamond Dust punchboards on here got me thinking about another, non-Diamond Dust punchboard, that I have. And I just got done posting a question about it over on your Baseballgames site. Talk about coincidences.

Anyway, getting back to these Diamond Dust cards, I hear and understand what you're saying, but find it really hard to believe those paper cards could be folded as you described and then fit into a punch hole. The punch holes on all the cards I've ever seen are really small and extremely narrow. I know the paper is thin, but is also ribbed, which adds to the overall thickness. You'd be initially rolling up the paper card, over its entire 1-3/4" length, in accordian fashion just as you said. So that is already going to be pretty thick and probably close to the diameter of an average punch hole already. So how do you then coil it so the normal 1" card width can end up fitting in a much shorter punch hole that is closer to only being say 1/2" deep? You'd have to really wind that coil awful tight, and with the already fragile nature of the paper and the horizontal folds from the ribbing, I can't see how you could possibly get such a coiled paper to fit into the diameter of one of those punch holes without causing noticeable damage or additional folds/creases to the cards. And yet, of all the cards that are out there you never find even one that shows any damage or creases that could have been caused by someone trying to coil them, and then insert them into a punch hole. And even if there was no damage or creases to the card, after having been coiled up in a punch hole for so long the paper itself would still have a residual coiling effect to it. It wouldn't just lay out perfectly flat, it would still be partially coiled, and the horizontal ribbing from the accordion folds would actually magnify the residual coiling effect.

Also, as soon you took the pressure off a card you had coiled and inserted into a punch hole, it would naturally start to uncoil, which would probably make it no longer fit and it would extend out of the punch hole. And remember, each of these punchboards literally had hundreds of punch holes in them, and the material that was used to then cover the punch holes once the cards had been inserted was added as a single sheet, not hole by hole. That means every punch hole had to have had a card inserted into it before the cover sheet was then put on top of them all at once. So how could you keep enough pressure on these hundreds of coiled cards to keep them from uncoiling and popping out of their punch holes before getting a cover sheet attached?

A single individual wouldn't be folding and then insert these cards by hand into a punchboard, would they? Would take too much time as there were hundreds of punch holes per card. And if automated, i can see the accordion ribbing folds being done mechanically. Most all the ribbing on the cards looks uniform, which indicates it was likely done by machine anyway, and to have a person fold each card by hand would take too long I would think and show more inconsistency in the folds than there are. So if the cards were folded and inserted mechanically, how would you get a machine to also coil the cards after foldinhg them, and then keep them from uncoiling till after they got inserted into the punch holes and covered with a cover sheet sealing the cards in. Can't see that happening. Only way I could possibly see the coiled card theory working was if the the punch holes were much wider, which I don't ever remember seeing. Unless and until I actually saw someone pull one of these cards out of a punchboard that is less than 1" thick, I have to believe these Diamond Dust cards only came in punchboards that were over an inch thick.

Last edited by BobC; 01-14-2023 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 06-17-2021, 12:36 PM
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Hi Bob, thanks for your reply, and for your post at our own Forum to which we'll reply there later.
You're probably right about our "coiled card" theory being at best unlikely -- it's just something we considered
without ever having been hands-on with any of the punchboards, but felt compelled to mention since
our attempts to explain it in the previous thread were shot down while being totally misunderstood.
Your objections to the coiled card scenario at least "get" what we're describing and provide solid logical
reasons as to why it probably wouldn't work, and we're fine with that.
For the guys here who have more experience handling punchboards, what's the thickness of the thickest
you've seen? We've never seen photos or read a description of one described as more than about 5/8".
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Old 07-04-2021, 01:19 PM
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Just spotted a Frank McCormick on a member's ImageEvent type card collection page.

Brian
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  #22  
Old 01-14-2023, 12:48 PM
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Would love to know if anyone has any Diamond Dust cards to sell!
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Old 01-14-2023, 05:50 PM
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Not likely. There is a small but dedicated group of collectors who pursue these and they do not sell. The population of these cards is just so small. That said, it is all for sale at the right price.
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