Possible cut t206 sheet from ebay... Opinions?

[t206fix]

Recently Greg Morris auctions sold a group of Sweet Cap factory 25s on ebay that I believe were part of an original sheet (or sheets). The back cuts are alcl the same, which may be too big of a coincidence coming from the same collection. Also, all of the cards are marked with either a HD back stamp, or a cursive HD. I've reached out to GM on ebay, but they had no idea of where the collection came from (I was hoping for more info from them). Here is a link to one of the auctions, and you can use "sold items" to view the rest of the auctions:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38465728832...AAAOSwj~Rh1K6X

I'll also apologize in advance for the multiple posts. I can't seem to figure out how to post pics in between words .

A few observations from that auction:

1. There were a significant number of tougher Sweet Cap 350 factory 25s. I've been following all 25s for awhile, and there were multiple cards in that auction that I only see pop up in auction every few years. However, in this auciton, there were multiple single copies.

2. The Bender 350.25 has a visible pencil mark (possible indicating hand cut). I do believe other cards have pencil marks as well, but it's hard to tell from the scans.

3. The Meyers has a paper fragment, as if it was cut recently. This may be a large jump, but I thought it odd that a card cut 110+ years ago has this dangler (I know that it may be something else, so this is a wildly speculative).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/31381964466...p2047675.l2557

[t206fix]

4. So, a number of the cards also have the exact same back cut. This is print group 350a:

[t206fix]

Print group B

[t206fix]

And the two of them together (which may indicate they were on the same sheet, or maybe not... see further posts). He also sold other 350 a/b group cards that I haven't spliced together yet, but I'm guessing based on other groupings, they will have the same cut.

[jason.1969]

I am very interested to see where this goes! I bought the Wheat and a Wilhelm in the auction. My two cards appear appropriately sized but I passed on some other Brooklyn players whose cards seemed small. I’d assumed trimming but perhaps hand cut then is an option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[t206fix]

5. He also sold 4 E12 SC.30s. They all seem to be cut from the same sheet:

[t206fix]

Jason, your Wheat is on the far right.

[t206fix]

6. Now this is where it gets weird... The E12s, a 460 grouping, have the same cut as the 350.25s!!!!

Why????

[GasHouseGang]

They definitely look like they were cut from a sheet. I wonder how they measure? That might be an indication also. Maybe Jason can let everyone know how the cards he bought measure when he gets them.

[t206fix]

7. He also sold a group of 460.25s. There are two distinct groupings of cuts. Here are both:

[t206fix]

It also appears that the 350.25 has the same cut as the 460.25s (and 460.30s) Which for the life of me, I cannot figure out why. They couldn't have been on the same sheet, right?


Again, this isn't just a couple of cards. This is 50+ cards backstamped with HD.

Alright, when I have a chance, I may do a little bit more with backscans, and post more.

[jggames]

I thought the very same thing for the Piedmont’s in that group of cards but only because the borders were so wonky, like hand cut scraps/blank backs/BOM etc. I purchased several of them.

Your analysis on these is great.

[Ronnie73]

I think the original owner probably worked at the print shop, so he also had the knowledge of the print and cut process. They are all nicely cut for hand cut cards. Maybe he set up a simple jig to slice the cards into strips and then into singles.

When I bought the majority of the Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 "No Prints", they also had pencil lines on the fronts of the cards, but they were poorly cut and didn't follow the lines that well. It was definitely a sheet or two that saw scissors used by hand. To a point that you could see a few cards that actually fit side by side or top's to bottom's. But it wasn't enough to reassemble a sheet of the cards.

[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

They definitely look like they were cut from a sheet. I wonder how they measure? That might be an indication also. Maybe Jason can let everyone know how the cards he bought measure when he gets them.

Yes, definitely will measure and let folks know. Also won the Wilhelm from same group.

[wolf441]

It's would be a pretty huge deal to find one person that had multiple T206 uncut sheets with several different backs. Great investigative work, Tony!!

Here's hoping that someone can get the consigner info from Greg Morris Cards.

[Tao_Moko]

I was beginning to think we may never have a full sheet turn up. This is getting damn close.

[t206fix]

Originally Posted by wolf441

It's would be a pretty huge deal to find one person that had multiple T206 uncut sheets with several different backs. Great investigative work, Tony!!

Here's hoping that someone can get the consigner info from Greg Morris Cards.

I can't figure out why the 350s, 460.25s and 460.30s would have the same cut. They couldn't possibly be on the same sheet. It's as if he stuck multiple sheets on top of each other and cut. But that doesn't make sense.

[atx840]

Awesome work! Need some time to wrap my head around this one, thank you for sharing your findings.

[jason.1969]

The cards finally arrived. Pics distort the measurements a bit since ruler is raised. Actual
size of Wheat is just a hair under 2-5/8” tall and pretty much exactly 1-7/16 wide. These measurements more or less match the official size attributed to the set.

Interestingly the Wilhelm I won in the same auction comes in a full 1/16 of an inch shorter and perhaps 1/32 of an inch narrower.

[t206fix]

Thanks for sharing Jason. I don't think the 150s with the GB back stamp are related. They look to be trimmed on all three boarders (maybe be handcut, maybe a bored child). The Wheat def seems connected. I received my cards as well, they seem to measure as well.


For what its worth, there were also 4 SC.350.30s sold from that lot that have the same back dimensions. No back stamp however, not sure if from the same collection, but looks to have similar cut to others. I honestly haven't had a lot of time to try to splice these together and play around with them. There seems to be a slight diagonal cut on the tops/backs that gradually changes. I'm wondering if there is any significance to this. Will post more later when there is more time:

[joshleon]

I bought a Dick Rudolph in this auction which is a tad taller and narrower than other cards. Does not have the same back as these but from same auction.

I'd post but I'd think Dick (Rudolph) pics are frowned upon?

If the taller/narrower thing is normal then let me know

[t206fix]

Originally Posted by joshleon

I bought a Dick Rudolph in this auction which is a tad taller and narrower than other cards. Does not have the same back as these but from same auction.

I'd post but I'd think Dick (Rudolph) pics are frowned upon?

If the taller/narrower thing is normal then let me know

Stricken from the record!

[t206fix]

my bad

[dougscats]

Hi Tony.

I was going to write you when I won these, excited as I was to get Camnitz, but I've been relocating, busy, waiting for them to arrive at my new address, and just got a printer/scanner that I'm still learning to use.

I was wondering if these cards were trimmed. But I think that you may be onto something, that they may be handcut from the same sheet. That's exciting if it is the case and may well help to solve the mystery of the uncut sheet.

I'll be interested to hear what our resident experts think.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by t206fix

Josh, I'd love to see your dick!

We are not going to have any of that on this forum!
.

[dougscats]

See Post 24, above.

[fkm_bky]

This Herzog is definitely not a Trim and I'm almost certain it's cut from a sheet, but obviously there's no definitive proof. It now resides in an SGC-A tomb.

SC-460 f. 30

Bill

[JollyElm]

Is that red area on the Camnitz printed like that, or was it added later? If printed, maybe someone out there has a matching card that appeared to the right of him on the sheet.

[dougscats]

It appears that the red mark on Camnitz is just that, a red mark, not a printing mark.

I'm surprised that no one has really pursued Tony's hypothesis, that these SC 350's and 460's are hand-cut from the same sheets.

Maybe it's gone as far as it can go?

Are there any more of these HD back-stamps out there?
Or any other similarly cut SC 350's and 460's? [Possibly, particularly as we see no doubles, they could have been split up with other collectors.]