Insurance

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Paradis

I know this topic was discussed before. I did a forum search but found topics from 2002.

Who are you using for insurance for your card collections? My homeowners insurance covers everything but cards (they do have an option to insure cards but it is a little expensive).

Edited to add:
I just called Collectibles Insurance Agency (from the "Misc" link on the forum). Their rates are:
$601 for $100k
$468 for $80k
$325 for $60k

Thanks.
Dan

[Archive]

Posted By: JK

I use Collectibles Insurance Agency. Very good company. Their rates have gone up significantly in the past couple of years.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

We have work with Chubb since 1975

We have found them to provide great service. They
are especially interested in working
collections with a value of more than $ 1 million

For those of you with multi-million dollar collections, we believe
that Chubb provides the best collectibles policy (and most reasonable
rates|) in the country


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

[Archive]

Posted By: Al C.risafulli

"For those of you with multi-million dollar collections, we believe
that Chubb provides the best collectibles policy (and most reasonable
rates|) in the country"

Excellent. I'll call them when I get around to insuring my multi-million dollar collections. I wasn't sure what to do about them, and now I know.


Has anyone ever needed to file a claim with CIA? I've been considering using them, and hear lots of good things, but I've never actually heard anything from anyone who has needed to file a claim. How are they?

-Al

[Archive]

Posted By: David Atkatz

"Listen closely to what my opponent says... "

<<We have work with Chubb since 1975

We have found them to provide great service. They
are especially interested in working
collections with a value of more than $ 1 million>>

Notice that the Bruces don't actually say they have a multi-million dollar collection.

They just imply that they do.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

Perhaps if this poor pathetic excuse for a teacher,
(we suggest everyone visit www.ratemyprofessor.com
and see what the students who have the misfortune
of being in the same room as this as this second rate
semi professor), spent as much time on learning how
to teach as he does attacking us, his students and
the University would benefit greatly.

The value of our collection was not the point here.

David the Nutty Professor has trouble reading unless
it is between the lines. The only point we wanted to make
is that Chubb is a company one should consider if one has
a very valuable collection.



Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List.

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul S

Pass the popcorn, please.

[Archive]

Posted By: JimCrandell

Nutty Professor,

So what if he did not say it? Bruce has a lot of great cards.

It was still a very good post--I was not aware that Chubb insured collections and may follow up with them.

[Archive]

Posted By: Zinn

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Whilst I support everyone's right to voice their opinion it is my opinion that you are now being more of a trouble maker than anything else. Either you add positively to this forum or please don't post. Thanks in advance for your consideration.....kindest regards

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul S

Lol Zinn -- you remembered the butter!

[Archive]

Posted By: James Gallo

I have a dealer policy with them. Over the past 2 years I have had to file 2 claims.

One was around $1200 worth of stuff that was stolen from me at a show. They rep was a dick and wasn't going to accept ebay as proof of value. After I put in a call I had my check about 7-10 days later.

The second claim was a shipment that paypal pulled the funds back on me. It was $250 or so and they covered everything except the shipping costs. Again I got a check quickly.

I do believe they changed the parent company so there is a deductible for me at least of either 250 or 500 I forget.

Regardless I think they are reasonable and I have never heard of anyone having a problem with them.

I also really like the fact they don't make you keep a inventory except of items valued at over $5000.

I would certainly use CIA over any others.

As another side note, I actually did a loss claim for Chub, and they seem like they may be good as well, but this is more towards the 6 figure+++ collections. If you got something under a million I think CIA is the way to go.

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

I have two policies with Collectibles Insurance Services, LLC. One for my collection and one for business inventory. I have been with them for 6 or more years and have recommended them to many collectors and dealers. Within the last 12 months they have changed underwriters to Lloyd's London. They have increased their premiums and reduced coverage significantly on the business policy making the policy virtually useless. I have had to file only 2 claims with them over the last 6 years and they were terrific.

[Archive]

Posted By: boxingcardman

I deal with Lloyds all the time; they are a PITA. CIA used to use Hartford but had to switch to Lloyds recently to maintain the same sort of coverages for the collection policy. I don't know their commercial policy but I would not put anything past Lloyds. The basic problem is that "Lloyds" isn't a real insurance company as we normally think of it; it is an insurance market. Lloyds does not take on risks for pay. It packages risks and pairs them with investors willing to take the premiums in return for covering with their assets. When you deal with a Lloyd's adjuster you are really dealing not with Lloyds but with the "Name" [that's what they call them] who signed on for the risk. Consequently, trying to get anything done on a claim can be very cumbersome since the decision maker is some anonymous person in London and the adjuster handling your claim is often a third party claims adjuster hired by the agent in London to handle things.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

[Archive]

Posted By: Anthony S.

I have a doberman.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Paradis

Thanks for your help. I put in a call to CIA and filled out an application.
I'm pretty sure I will go with them.

Dan

[Archive]

Posted By: Clint

Hopefully this isn't too dumb of a question but how are taxes figured on a claim?

Dan, do you still have that number for CIA?


Clint

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Paradis

http://www.collectinsure.com/

888-837-9537

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob Casmer

Clint,

How a theft loss is treated for tax purposes depends on if it is for business assets (ie: a dealer's inventory) or for personal assets (a hobbyist's collection). Assuming you are more interested in the personal side, the loss comes under the Casualty and Theft loss rules of the IRS. The theft loss is determined as the lesser of the fair market value or the adjusted basis (ie: what you paid for it) of the items stolen. The amount of loss is then reduced by any insurance proceeds you receive. Any remaining loss, after insurance proceeds are received, must be at least $100 and, it must also exceed 10% of your Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) on your tax return to be deductible. It ultimately gets reported on Schedule A (Itemized Deductions) on your 1040 federal tax return.

[Archive]

Posted By: Anonymous

Thanks Dan and Bob.

Bob, if you make more on the claim than what you paid for the item are you responsible for any taxes?

Clint

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Koyama

I think I've posted this before, but I was robbed in Feb of this year and about 10k worth of cards and over $30k worth of comics (prices that I paid for these items, not FMV) were taken (as well as the usual jewelry, laptops, digital cameras, etc).
The max payout for my cards was $1k, $2.5k for electronics and $2.5k for jewelry.
They paid me a decent FMV for my comics and cut me a check for about $80k.
This would piss me off if I have to pay taxes on the $60k difference as I wasn't planning on selling those items (they were for my personal collection). If I use the money to buy back the comics that were stolen, do I still need to pay it back since they are going to be replaced?

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Paradis

Brian, who did you have insurance with? I hope not CIA (i.e. limit $1k per card).

Dan

[Archive]

Posted By: JK

CIA doesnt have a per card limit except to the extent that you must individually schedule any cards worth over 5k (its the only exception to their policy that they dont require an inventory).

[Archive]

Posted By: JimB

Ironically, my renewal notice for CIA just arrived in the mail today.
JimB

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob Casmer

Brian,

Unfortunately, the answer to your question could very well be yes, some of the proceeds from insurance could be taxable. You said you had about $10K worth of cards, for which you received about $1K in insurance proceeds. This is a loss of about $9K. Then you had comics, jewelry, electronics, etc. for which you paid about $30K and received insurance proceeds of about $80K, resulting in a net gain of around $50K. For tax purposes, you would offset the gains and losses to determine your net result. In your case, about a $41K gain ($50k - $9k). Your loss falls under treatment for what is known as an "involuntary conversion". Your collectibles and other property were involuntarily converted to cash received from the insurance company. Because the conversion was not voluntary on your part, there is some relief from taxation which sort of follows the "like-kind exchange rules" but, you would have to take the proceeds received from the insurance company and try to replace all the property you had stolen with similar, like-kind assets. Anything you left in the form of cash, or used to buy something else that did not replace what was stolen (up to the approximate $41K of gain you realized from the insurance), would be taxable as a capital gain on Schedule D of your 1040 return. The gain would be long-term if the items stolen were owned more than 1 year. For an involuntary conversion like yours, the replacement period would generally be two tax years after the end of the tax year in which you realized a gain from the involuntary conversion. So if your stuff was stolen in 2008, it looks like you have till the end of 2010 to replace your property and not have any tax due. But remember, you would have to spend the entire amount of insurance proceeds to totally escape gain. Whatever you kept in cash, or used to buy anything else that wasn't like-kind, replacement property, would be taxable gain to you, up to the approximate $41K net gain you realized.

Also, to defer the recognition of the gain you must actually report the details of the gain on your tax return in the year in which the gain is recognized/received. The required statement should include the date and details surrounding the involuntary conversion, details of what was stolen/involuntarily converted, the insurance proceeds received and the potential gain to be recognized. If you've already acquired some of the replacement property at the time you file your tax return, you'll need to include a description of that replacement property, and probably what you've paid for it. For any items you'll be replacing after the year of the theft, you'll need to state that you intend to replace the balance of that property within the specified replacement period.

These are the formal rules in a nutshell. You should talk to your tax advisor to get into more specifics surrounding your particular case. Also keep in mind, I don't believe the insurance company is required to forward any information to the IRS regarding claims paid. Hope this helps.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Koyama

No. I didn't have insurance with CIA. It was with my regular homeowners insurance (Farmer's). I never thought of getting insurance until after this happened. It took over 7 months to get the settlement due to the amount owed to me.
Well, at least now I get to start from scratch.

[Archive]

Posted By: TONY GALOVICH

They were great till I filed a claim
Supposedly all claims are settled within 60 days
After 6 months I asked what's going on & all I got from the agent investigating the claim was
"Your Claim was Denied"
No Reasons
NO Nothing

Spend your money & Cross your Fingers
I should have bought a bunch of Lottery tixs
Probably would have to come out ahead
instead of insuring items I had in A storage Unit

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff O

Tony, if your insurance carrier actually denied your claim without providing you a reason in writing, they may have acted contrary to the laws in the state in which you live (or in which the loss occurred).

A large number of states (if not all) require that such a denial be made in writing. They also often require that an insurance carrier provide you a written letter (often referred to as a Reservation of Rights letter) on a specified interval if they are investigating your first party claim.

If what you allege is true, you can utilize your state's Department of Insurance to assist you or hire an attorney to represent your interests.

Jeff

[Archive]

Posted By: Tom Boblitt

this thread became atkatzless as soon as the Bruces posted the ratemyprofessor website. Or did leon zap him?

[Archive]

Posted By: David Atkatz

Neither.