There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards

[Archive]

Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

For the better part of three years, we have preached that ultra high condition pre war
baseball cards are under-valued. In terms of establishingg long-term value,
nothing matters more than condition.

Whilst PSA and SGC make a few mistakes (less than 1/10 of 1% of what they now
grade), an ultra high grade card- especially for a rare card of a highly desirable player.
has appreciated at a rate far. far above that of the best performing (if there are any left)
equities or other financial instruments.

Last evening's Goodwin Auction is a case in point. The ultra high grade Brunners Bread
Hall of Famers realized prices that stunned everyone. The PSA 8 Cobb for example,
realized over $270,000.

A number of other cards topped all prices realized expectations by a factor of 3 o 4.

Those who argue that plastic does not matter...might also suggest that the quality of
loans does not matter or that Russia is not a threat to America's safety and security.

We understand and appreciate that ultra high grade collecting is the sport of an elite
few collectors in much the same way that other collectibles have segmented their markets.

And much like the very best impressionist paintings, D flawless diamonds, Faberge Eggs and other
extraordinary collectibles, ultra high grade rare cards will continue to appreciate in value,
despite the economy, interest rates, gas prices, wars, layoffs and politics.

If you have the resources, the courage and the eye...investing in ultra high baseball cards will
pay off in ways one could only begin to imagine.

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Martin

Yawn......pass the popcorn.

[Archive]

Posted By: Sean C

That blinding flash of the obvious from the Dorskind "Group" just cost me my vision. Now how will I be able to collect cards?

[Archive]

Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

Sean

Now that you can no longer see, perhaps someone in your family can put
your ultra high grade cards up for auction. Hopefully you have ones that are
valuable enough to pay for the seeing eye dog you are sure to need.




Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Come on guys, it's too early in the morning to get ourselves into a lather.

[Archive]

Posted By: JimCrandell

I wasn't aware of this Bruce--thank you. Same trend for Memory Lane and Mastro?

[Archive]

Posted By: Sean BH

See Bruce can be funny:

Now that you can no longer see, perhaps someone in your family can put
your ultra high grade cards up for auction. Hopefully you have ones that are
valuable enough to pay for the seeing eye dog you are sure to need.

[Archive]

Posted By: Randy Trierweiler

Bruce, what did you win from Goodwin?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Bruce, no asset only goes one way in value. None. Not Bear stock, Lehman stock, housing prices or even baseball cards.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tom Boblitt

Econ 101 theorem.........

[Archive]

Posted By: David Goff

Tom...No Ryder Cup? Thought you'd be there..

[Archive]

Posted By: Tom Boblitt

Night...........got 8 out of 12 of the Americans autographs on a nice pin flag. Hoping to go back Sunday.

[Archive]

Posted By: andy becker

jeff,
i would agree with bruce (i did just write that....), baseball cards that are scarce (high grade or not) have been pretty consistant over the last 20 years. there is an ebb and flow to the market with "timing" dips, but the graph is pretty much up, up, and away.
maybe the scarce card market will go through a correction in the future, but that is speculative at best.

baseball cards are still in their infancy compared to other non-traditional forms of investments.

that all being said, i'm a collector....and if the market does correct i will be buying much more than i am now.

[Archive]

Posted By: Eric Pugh

Bruce,

What are your thoughts on rare LOW grade cards? IE honus wagner in the grade of PSA 1 and others like that, or ultra rarities in the grade of 1 or 2. thx.

Eric

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob

"Those who argue that plastic does not matter...might also suggest that the quality of
loans does not matter or that Russia is not a threat to America's safety and security."

some of us care more about the card than the plastic ...

Rob

[Archive]

Posted By: boxingcardman

You never seem to do anything except cheerlead.

Armchair commentary is easy. Perhaps it's time to stop talking, take the shrink-wrap off your wallet and actually use it...

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Prizner

I have to agree with Bruce, ultra high grade pre-war is selling for insane money.

I personally collect low grade stuff and can appreciate true rarity much more than grade rarity, but I can't argue against recent sales results. Nice call Bruce.

[Archive]

Posted By: Alan U

IMHO, the ULTRA-high grade cards do seem to have a high rate of appreciation and sell for some unbelievable prices, but I also believe they have a possiblity of taking a big dive in value due to the following:

-Am I the only one that believes most ULTRA-high grade vintage cards have been altered in some way (pressed, trimmed, cleaned up, etc)? For some reason, it's just hard to believe so many high condition cards could have came out of cigarette, candy packs, etc so nice and clean.

-With the publication of the book "The Card" some of this is coming to light and a bigger more widespread scandal (maybe with the auction houses?) of some sort could really hurt the values of these cards.

-Alan

[Archive]

Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Tom,

Who did you get to sign the flag? Obviously not Tiger, I take it. I don't want to steer this thread too far off-course, so feel free to drop me a line privately if you'd care to share.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Prizner

maybe Alan (and I feel the same way about them being 'cleaned' up), but we're not seeing it yet. 'The Card' has been out for awhile now and card doctoring is nothing new.

The prices blow my mind, and they happen over and over again. If I was in it only for the money, I would be all about high grade and filling the top Registry guys' want list.

This is actually a good topic for discussion. I think the Bruce jokes have been done to death (guilty myself), and yes he comes off very arrogant (no offense Bruce), but he does make a good point.

[Archive]

Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

The $273,000 reported price for the Brunners Bread Cobb is amazing. Approximately how many of the card exist, regardless of condition?

[Archive]

Posted By: andy becker

i know the thread is about "ultra high condition cards", but my point in my earlier post was that the real upward push is in scare cards. there are two types of scarcity, scarce period and scarce in "x" condition.

both types of scarcity have done very well over a 20 year period. which type of scarcity you collect (or don't) is a personal choice.

this is fact, imo it's not really debatable.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

If I had to guess on how many D304 Cobbs there are in existence I would venture to guess 100-200....that's just a guess though but I bet it's fairly accurate...

[Archive]

Posted By: Shawn Chambers

We feel the real value lies in the Bruces' pun.

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards (ignoring the fact the title has errors) they proceed to mention Brunner's Bread...dough, bread get it...get it...

We would rather watch a bad Foghorn Leghorn cartoon .

Shawn

[Archive]

Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

You're correct. Your statement can be applied perfectly to any form of collectible. If turning a future profit is at least in the back of your mind (even for the sake of your family's security), your words can and should be taken as great advice.

[Archive]

Posted By: jay wolt

"The $273,000 reported price for the Brunners Bread Cobb is amazing"

Actually it went higher, with the juice it exceeded $320,000

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

I do agree but......

270k for high condition (low pop) could really be a downside if 2 didn't show up for the next sale...

Get that same card in a 4 holder for about 20k and I think it's a much wiser investment....but I have been wrong before.....

[Archive]

Posted By: JK

"The PSA 8 Cobb for example, realized over $270,000."

I have no idea if there is any merit to this theory or not, but Ive spoken to at least one person who believes that the consignor, who decided to auction the cards to free up funds for another purchase that fell through (an auction that he did not win), would bid whatever it took to purchase the d304s back himself.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Sso the person that consigned them might have bought them back? That's interesting. I personally have no issue with that kind of thing but it is sort of ironic.....I guess the stock in my D304 Cobby/Martens might have gone up a little.....

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

I was fortunate to win the Tango lot last night and it looks like the final bid prices on the website DO INCLUDE the buyers premiums......still some pretty healthy prices....best regards

[Archive]

Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

Jay,

According to the Goodwin site, the $273K includes the buyers premium.

[Archive]

Posted By: JimB

The Cobb sold for over 320k with the juice. To address Corey's question, my guess is that there are probably somewhere in the 100-150 range total, maybe less.
JimB

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Unless there is a mix mash of the way the web and lots are described, as far as winning bids, the D304 Cobb did not sell for 320k it sold for the 270k.....At least the lot I won shows the winning bid WITH the BP included.......still a healthy price tag....

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Some days I wish there were a few more boards on net54.

One for vintage graded cards would be nice... get that crap off of
here.

And one for 'Real Dough' or high dollar value cards would be good,
again, getting that off of this fine board.


Some of my favorite, most treasured cards have little monetary
value. I like them, because of the history of who the player
was, what was happening in his career when the card was issued,
something about the card issue, or a combination of those
factors. IT ISN'T ABOUT THE DOLLAR VALUE OF THE CARD. And for
those of you who are in it for the money, you're missing out on
a great hobby, ball card collecting.

I understand the use of 'whilst', I'm fine with that. "Only
kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the
right to use the editorial 'we'." Mark Twain. So Bruce, kindly
cure the tapeworms, or post a youtube link for your coronation.



and one solidarity edit...

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob D.

NOTICE: From this point on, Net54 members are requested to e-mail Frank their topics for approval before posting.

Thank you.

[Archive]

Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

"I have no idea if there is any merit to this theory or not, but Ive spoken to at least one person who believes that the consignor, who decided to auction the cards to free up funds for another purchase that fell through (an auction that he did not win), would bid whatever it took to purchase the d304s back himself."

JK,

My only response to your statement is that I very much hope Goodwin is not that stupid as to have a rigged sale with the Feds taking a close look at fraud in the hobby. If in fact this was a legitimate sale at $273K, then the bidding records will show underbids from real purchasers (who presumably have a history of collecting this sort of thing) and money changing hands to pay for the item, from a source that has have no direct or indirect connection to the consignor.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

With all due respect a little tolerance of other's views and wishes goes a long way too. Who cares if others want to collect high grade? It's their money....

[Archive]

Posted By: JK

Corey,

First, I have no inside info. Second, my comment in no way implied that this was a rigged sale. Only that the consignor would bid any price to win the items back - not that there werent legit underbids.

[Archive]

Posted By: andy becker

frank,
your opinion surprises me, i did not know you felt that way.

i think there are less than 100 d304 cobbs....way less, but that is a guess.....a guess that with the current prices, i believe more would come to market.

leon, regarding the fallout you mentioned.....i agree that there could be dips, which i look at as a stitch in time (timing is a lot in an auction driven environment), but overall performance is again up, up, and away.
i am not saying that a 20k "4" may not be a better investment than a 300k "8", i'm really not giving any investment advice.....i'm just saying that the scarce card market (d304 do apply) is very strong with no legitimate correction in the last 20 years.

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob D.

lol, Andy.

[Archive]

Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

JK,

I don't mean to imply you had inside info. Your post made it clear you were just repeating something you were told and that you had no idea if it was true.

Hypothetically, IMO ANY auction where the consignor bought the card back is not a legitimate sale. And, again hypothetically, if such a circumstance was to happen with the knowledge and consent of the auction house, then I would characterize it as a rigged sale.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jason

Wait I'm confused. (and not just because of the poor grammar)

Is Russia a threat to the card collecting hobby? :shrug:

[Archive]

Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

In Russia , the card collecting hobby threatens you !

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim VB

Just what was Stalin's rookie card anyway?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

1916 Smirnoff's "Cavalcade of Stars"

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob D.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim VB

Are you sure? I thought anything before the revolution in 1917 would have been a minor league card.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Good point. The 1916 issue was of the "Future Star" variety. I could have made that a lot funnier, but wouldn't want to risk offending anyone.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jason

I've got a high grade Trotsky for sale. (One of Russia's most wanted!)

[Archive]

Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Yakov! He brings back memories of Night Court.

How "1985" is that sweater? Rumor has it that Yakov fought Heathchliffe Huxtable in a death match for that thing.