Mastro Results: Proof of Shilling or other factors at play?

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Posted By: Aaron M.

Jeff, I don't think leon is saying he'd be a happy victim of fraud so much as he is saying he would still be freidns with the Mastro guys even if they were criminals and had defrauded people throughout the hobby so long as he was not specifically vitimized (i.e., they just sort of anonymously ripped him off along with a bunch of other people, as opposed to specifically saying, "let's jack up the prices of lots that leon is bidding on").

I think that's a very strange opinion, but he's certainly entitled to it.

As to Barry's observation, let's not kid ourselves. If charges are brought against Mastro, I think shortly thereafter we probably wouldn't have the option of continuing to do business with them. Either their quality consignments would dry up (who would risk their investment by consigning to a firm that is on trial?) or they'd have to at the least suspend operations until the matter was resolved in their favor. That's the practical answer, but I don't know the legal one: could the government shut them down before they were found guilty?

It's crazy to think about where we are in the hobby, but in all seriousness, we could be a few criminal charges away from major auction houses going under and the hobby going through a major transformation (both in terms of value of collections and the way in which we continue to pursue our hobby).

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Posted By: boxingcardman

But here goes anyhow:

1. Economy: Personally, I have been reluctant to go with big cash out of pocket lately. A number of other collectors I've spoken to feel the same way. I had some consignments that did pretty well and I applied all of the proceeds towards my bids. On the last lot I was not willing to pitch in that last bid because I would have had to come out of pocket several hundred dollars for it. Not that I would have won anyhow (see #3 below). My generalization from this is that if I am not willing to commit the cash for that last bid, and others follow suit, the final prices quickly erode. The winner may have been willing to pay more but if no one pushes him-her, they won't.

2. I have never seen any evidence of shilling on the lots I've won from Mastro; the last one I won came in several increments below my max bid (and I was pretty high because I really wanted the card).

3. The items I follow were very strong in this auction; all exceeded my estimates. The results on Exhibit cards were record-setting and would have been even better if the lots hadn't been so big. If I was the consignor of the exhibit lots I would have been rather unhappy with the lotting (my pet peeve, as many of you know, w/Mastro).

4. I do agree that the auction was sparser than others have been. There were under 5 boxing card lots, for example.

5. Frankly, I think we may be reaching a saturation point in the auction field. We've had how many auctions over the last six months? I mean Mastro alone had the monster in April (up against REA's annual effort), the crappy stuff auction in June, the epic in your face at the end of July, and this one in August. In between we had several others from other auctioneers. I know I can barely find enough quality toilet time to read each catalog Oh, and the National is in there somewhere too...

6. Because of #5 some collectors are waiting for other auctions that promise once in a lifetime materials (you know who you are, you bastards...Iwon't ID it here ).

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: Matt

"I know I can barely find enough quality toilet time to read each catalog"

My wife has a special dinner that she makes when she sees an auction catalog in the mail - I can get you the recipe if you would like

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Posted By: JimB

I think Mastro got low totals in the last auction because the material was weak. I did not find the prices realized weak on the lots I was watching. T206s seemed fine. PSA bat on Cobb went for around 30k! Others were strong too. I suppose Mastro is sort of dividing their August premier auction into two: the live event at the National, and the August catalog auction. Combined, they grossed over 10 million. I would still say it was a weak offering by Mastro standards, but c'est la vie. Maybe it was just that there was not much I was particularly interested in pursuing.
JimB

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Posted By: Bob Beyerle

FWIW- I'm usually competitive in 3-5 Mastro auction lots per event. (also, usually the underbidder) I also watch 3-5 lots typically. I had no interest in their last auction , based on what I collect. Seems like I was not alone. The material offered was not as diverse or interesting as usual. Maybe consignors are waiting for the economy to pick up.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

The Live auction had a lot of high end lots, many of which likely would have have appeared in the latest auction-- T206 Wagner, N123 SF Hess Near Set, Gehrig game used jersey, 1933 Sport Kings uncut sheet, T206 Ty Cobb Tobacco, etc.