Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Would one of you grow some balls and post the ID, or PM me and I'll do it.

Maybe if folks weren't so offensive, such as this post of yours, they would. But I don't blame the original seller whatsoever for not wanting to get into this. And I am not going to be bullied into doing anything before I am ready to. It will all come out. And nice scrambling orf your name. But we got that fixed for ya. Also, i will be going back and putting full names by everyone's ID who wants to spout off. No worries about any one saying anything but if you do your name needs to be by your post, per the rules.
ps...I have made the name known to a few people working on this but just don't want to say publicly quite yet.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jad22

It appears some people know the name. Is it a member of this site?

The only name I have isn't a member according to records checked. That doesn't mean they aren't here, they can crawl under the fence fairly easily. Caveat Emptor...

[egri]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Dunno...it will be interesting to see as this unravels if this trickles down to chase cards/auto cards in modern era sets distributed by the big guys like topps?

I would not be surprised for this forger to go to tough signers from way back when, like what us_caine does. Not necessarily stars, but guys who died young or just disappeared after they stopped playing. He doesn't get anywhere near what an authentic one would bring, but I've still seen him turn a $5 card into a $200+ card. This new guy evidently is a better crook than us_caine, so his payoff would be correspondingly higher.

[CrackaJackKid]

I’m guessing it’s Battlefield....

[irv]

Originally Posted by whitey19thcentury

People have touched on the fact that all of these other signed tobacco issue cards and Goudeys that have hit the market over the past couple of years deserve scrutiny, but has anyone raised an eyebrow over the sudden influx of signed 1952 Topps cards that seemingly are in every auction now, too?

I don't think anything, at this point, unless it has some real good provenance, can be assumed as being real.

This fiasco will set everything on its ear for a long time, especially now that we know tried, true and trusted authenticators/TPA's made some serious errors!

My only signed (non factory) card that I purchased here sometime ago. I was very happy to receive it and I almost jumped in with collecting signed cards when I heard they were getting hot. Glad now I didn't have the funds to support that!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Charles, Charley, and Charlie all on one card, that's pretty good.

[swarmee]

Too bad we can't access SGC's old cert lookup tool, because that would help us find other candidates subbed at the same time. Or to look for gaps in how many in the submission failed authentication at the time.

[Fred]

Wouldn't it draw the suspicion of auction houses or TPGs if one person kept making submissions of signed T206s, 1933 Goudeys, 1952T etc? Am I missing something? Was the person selling this stuff ungraded and then the buyers were having the cards authenticated by TPGs?

Wouldn't the TPGs see this huge influx of signed cards as a possible indication that something's wrong?

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Too bad we can't access SGC's old cert lookup tool, because that would help us find other candidates subbed at the same time. Or to look for gaps in how many in the submission failed authentication at the time.

Somebody else had mentioned about forgers possibly sending in 20 examples and if they got one passed, it made up for the losses and then some. But TPGs have to have a system in place where the failed authentications would raise a red flag, right? None of these TPGs could possibly get 20 submissions (or more) from one submitter (either of the same auto or the same set, etc.), fail 19 and authenticate one without raising submissions, right?!? That seems downright crazy...

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Too bad we can't access SGC's old cert lookup tool, because that would help us find other candidates subbed at the same time. Or to look for gaps in how many in the submission failed authentication at the time.

Beat me to it! Lol.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by Fred

Wouldn't it draw the suspicion of auction houses or TPGs if one person kept making submissions of signed T206s, 1933 Goudeys, 1952T etc? Am I missing something? Was the person selling this stuff ungraded and then the buyers were having the cards authenticated by TPGs?

Wouldn't the TPGs see this huge influx of signed cards as a possible indication that something's wrong?

From what I hear, they don't even keep scans of the cards they grade. Talk about a lack of transparency. They should be scanning and uploading each autographed card to a searchable online database. That way the hobby can connect the dots if something is wrong.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Charles, Charley, and Charlie all on one card, that's pretty good.

Some collector I am!

I didn't even notice that, Peter.

[jad22]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

Somebody else had mentioned about forgers possibly sending in 20 examples and if they got one passed, it made up for the losses and then some. But TPGs have to have a system in place where the failed authentications would raise a red flag, right? None of these TPGs could possibly get 20 submissions (or more) from one submitter (either of the same auto or the same set, etc.), fail 19 and authenticate one without raising submissions, right?!? That seems downright crazy...

They wouldn't necessarily send them in themselves. They might send them off to multiple Auction Houses that way it gets spread out.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Fred

Wouldn't it draw the suspicion of auction houses or TPGs if one person kept making submissions of signed T206s, 1933 Goudeys, 1952T etc? Am I missing something? Was the person selling this stuff ungraded and then the buyers were having the cards authenticated by TPGs?

Wouldn't the TPGs see this huge influx of signed cards as a possible indication that something's wrong?

You would think that the TPA's and AH's would get suspicious.
But money trumps all else,,,,,, stuff, ethics, integrity, etc.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by irv

Some collector I am!

I didn't even notice that, Peter.

You may have to Chuck the card now.

[Orioles1954]

There's still a few living players from the 1952 Topps set. Not nearly as difficult as pre-war cards.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

From what I hear, they don't even keep scans of the cards they grade. Talk about a lack of transparency. They should be scanning and uploading each autographed card to a searchable online database. That way the hobby can connect the dots if something is wrong.

Soooo, they don't research the cards, they only reference what "known examples" they already have in their data-base, and they don't keep scans of newly submitted autos to grow said database for reference. How can you get better if you don't collect new data points? Oh, wait...you don't.

For all we know, they're comparing newly faked autos with previously faked autos...."yup, that's a match...slab it!"

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You may have to Chuck the card now.

Good one!

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by conor912

Soooo, they don't research the cards, they only reference what "known examples" they already have in their data-base, and they don't keep scans of newly submitted autos to grow said database for reference. How can you get better if you don't collect new data points. Oh, wait...you don't.

For all we know, they're comparing newly faked autos with previously faked autos...."yup, that's a match...slab it!"

My theory is that once 1 fake gets through, it becomes an exemplar. After 2 fakes get through, that's 1 more exemplar, and so on...after a decade or two, the exemplar file will be completely contaminated and no one will know what's real and what's not.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You may have to Chuck the card now.

Originally Posted by irv

Good one!

Chuckle worthy

[Peter_Spaeth]

We should start a poll. Closest to guess the time the name is posted without going over wins.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

after a decade or two, the exemplar file will be completely contaminated and no one will know what's real and what's not.

...or after 3-4 years.....starting 3-4 years ago

[egri]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

There's still a few living players from the 1952 Topps set. Not nearly as difficult as pre-war cards.

The average 1952 Topps is easier than the average pre-war, but there are still plenty of tough signers or players whose demand far outstrips the supply. Fred Hutchinson, Vern Bickford, Vern Stephens and Howie Fox come to mind, as do a lot of the Brooklyn Dodgers.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

We should start a poll. Closest to guess the time the name is posted without going over wins.

6 15 pm EST

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

We should start a poll. Closest to guess the time the name is posted without going over wins.

Peter,
But what if someone knows the name and fixes this poll .

[ejharrington]

My hope is that justice includes a full accounting of the extent of the fraud. I have a feeling it could be 100's of cards.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

Somebody else had mentioned about forgers possibly sending in 20 examples and if they got one passed, it made up for the losses and then some. But TPGs have to have a system in place where the failed authentications would raise a red flag, right? None of these TPGs could possibly get 20 submissions (or more) from one submitter (either of the same auto or the same set, etc.), fail 19 and authenticate one without raising submissions, right?!? That seems downright crazy...

It would seem so, but that could happen a few different ways.


Like if someone bought a bunch of autos from some random flea market guy and one was actually real.

Or they inherited a collection and started sending them in a few at a time.


If someone is constantly buying bad stuff and paying me to tell them it's bad I'm not sure I'd want them to stop. I'd probably tell them after a while, but that's in the "I feel bad for them but kinda don't "category.

[tazdmb]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

There's still a few living players from the 1952 Topps set. Not nearly as difficult as pre-war cards.

Totally OT, but I having lunch Saturday with Whiz Kid, Bob Miller-who is featured in the 1952 Topps set. 92 years old and still sharp as a tact

[atx840]

Heads up these cards were bought by the same buyer, not sure if there are known signed copy.
March 8, 2015


August 22, 2015


August 21, 2015

[Promethius88]

[QUOTE=atx840;1831683]Heads up these cards were bought by the same buyer, not sure if there is a known signed copy.


If there's not, there will be soon!!

[Shoeless Moe]

What if his Ebay ID is:

T206Forger

Wouldn't that be a kick in the ass!

[jad22]

[QUOTE=Promethius88;1831685]

Originally Posted by atx840

Heads up these cards were bought by the same buyer, not sure if there is a known signed copy.


If there's not, there will be soon!!

https://huntauctions.com/phone/image...162&lot_num=10

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Peter,
But what if someone knows the name and fixes this poll .

What if the villain turns out be be a beloved board member.

This could end like a bad Scooby Doo episode with a rubber mask being ripped off.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by steve B

If someone is constantly buying bad stuff and paying me to tell them it's bad I'm not sure I'd want them to stop.

Auction houses ask me for opinions and it's always hard stuff where they don't have the answer. I'd like sometimes for them to send me a scan and I get to reply "It says reprint right there at the bottom."

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

What if the villain turns out be be a beloved board member.

This could end like a bad Scooby Doo episode with a rubber mask being ripped off.

it's happened before!

[Shoeless Moe]

The biggest mystery since "Who Shot JR?"

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

What if the villain turns out be be a beloved board member.

This could end like a bad Scooby Doo episode with a rubber mask being ripped off.

G-g-g-g-ghosts?!?

[scooter729]

This thread has gotten 40K views already - my over/under on passing 100K views will be 6PM ET Saturday.

I must be in for about 200 of those views myself by now!

[peterose4hof]

Originally Posted by scooter729

This thread has gotten 40K views already - my over/under on passing 100K views will be 6PM ET Saturday.

I must be in for about 200 of those views myself by now!

That's good. The more exposure this gets the better.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by drcy

G-g-g-g-ghosts?!?

Those meddling Net 54 kids!!!!!

[swarmee]

JSA just sent out an email advertisement for an auctionhouse. A little tone deaf, huh? All publicity is good publicity?

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

My theory is that once 1 fake gets through, it becomes an exemplar. After 2 fakes get through, that's 1 more exemplar, and so on...after a decade or two, the exemplar file will be completely contaminated and no one will know what's real and what's not.

This is likely the scary truth for some subjects, although I would guess that any autographs of the most popular athletes (and others), such as Mantle, Williams and the ilk, have many verifiable examples to use as the baseline.

[The Nasty Nati]

Originally Posted by tazdmb

Totally OT, but I having lunch Saturday with Whiz Kid, Bob Miller-who is featured in the 1952 Topps set. 92 years old and still sharp as a tact

Better take a picture of him signing that card because that is the only proof worthy nowadays.

[AGuinness]

45 pages of posts already... and on one, somebody mentioned the experience of getting an autograph at a show, taking it to a TPG booth and it not passing.

It hit me - why the heck don't TPGs that have booths at shows offer a service to witness the auto in person and then slab it there, they could even include "WITNESSED" on the flip? I would guess there would be many people willing to shell out extra $$ for this, and it would certainly be a welcome addition for anybody looking to purchase an autograph.

[The Nasty Nati]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

45 pages of posts already... and on one, somebody mentioned the experience of getting an autograph at a show, taking it to a TPG booth and it not passing.

It hit me - why the heck don't TPGs that have booths at shows offer a service to witness the auto in person and then slab it there, they could even include "WITNESSED" on the flip? I would guess there would be many people willing to shell out extra $$ for this, and it would certainly be a welcome addition for anybody looking to purchase an autograph.

Excellent point. To me there is no greater proof than a physical witness or at the very least a picture of an athlete signing that particular item (although nowadays you can also photoshop that in).

Also, even TTM autos are a gamble. Many of those autographs are not signed by the actual athlete, but by their assistant or spouse. In the 1970s my mom worked with a high profile actress and she signed all of her autographs for her.

[Pat R]

Here's the Jesse Tannehill.

Tannehill Auto.jpg

[Powell]

I'd greatly appreciate any help on the authenticity of the signatures in my signed T 206 collection:

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Here's the Jesse Tannehill.

Attachment 335937

Ahhh, finally! I've been looking for that one.

List updated.

[painthistorian]

I know there have been posts asking us to post specifics to a very serious criminal activity that does affect the entire industry-FORGED VINTAGE COLLECTIBLES, it sucks and should not be tolerated...I believe e bay has been notified and I believe that certain law enforcement have been notified.....I have spoken to a few people that want to be absolutely sure in collecting facts but I believe the T206's signed are part of a much larger operation.

[Duluth Eskimo]

You kids quiet down in the backseat and let the adults handle this.