1896 Paterson Silk Weavers w/ Honus Wagner - Magic Lantern?

[Jobu]

I have the following 3.25" x 4" glass slide of the 1896 Paterson Silk Weavers with Honus Wagner, but I am not quite sure what it is. My best guess is a Magic Lantern slide, but I know very little about them so it is really just a guess.

Thanks in advance.

[oldjudge]

Bryan-I’m gonna guess it is not period

[drcy]

Early 1900s, as glass was discontinued in the 1930s. But, as said, probably not 1896.

So it is Pre-War

[Jobu]

Thanks. I agree with both of you that 1896 is out. Knowing that these were discontinued in 1930 helps a lot, so a 1910-1930 range, while wide, is nice to know.

Thanks again for the input!

[drcy]

1930s not 1930.

I think 1900s-10s is a fair guess.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Jobu

I have the following 3.25" x 4" glass slide of the 1896 Paterson Silk Weavers with Honus Wagner, but I am not quite sure what it is. My best guess is a Magic Lantern slide, but I know very little about them so it is really just a guess.

Thanks in advance.

Actually have a small collection of baseball related Magic Lantern Slides (MLS), mostly from the mid-nineteen-teens. Got them from a photography collector who told me a little bit about them. One thing I learned was that period Magic Lantern Slides were professionally produced and mostly used for advertisement and entertainment purposes. And they often had the name of the advertiser, or whoever made or produced it, somewhere on the slide, either on the actual glass slide itself so the advertiser's name would be part of the projected image the viewers would see, or more so in the case of the slide's producer, printed somewhere on the paper border that covered the front and back edges of the slide. In the case of your item, I'm referring to what looks like a black border going all around your slide. I'm assuming that black border on your slide is covered in or made up of some kind of heavy paper or cardboard, correct? It doesn't look like there is any advertiser or producer's name showing on the glass slide itself, so what about on the border itself, is anything printed on either side of the surrounding border? If so, it might give you a lead to research for some further info on the slide.

From what I can see from your scans, there doesn't seem to be any printing on the borders at all though, and the borders themselves don't look to be very consistent or professionally added, like you would expect from a true, commercially produced, Magic Lantern Slide. I'm beginning to think this isn't a true, professionally produced Magic Lantern Slide, but instead maybe something created from a glass negative (called a positive) of an actual picture taken of the team? In other words, some non-professional trying to create their own homemade Magic Lantern Slide? The 1896 date is in the ballpark timewise for the process of using a glass negative to then create a glass positive, which could then have been used as a MLS. There were actually kits sold back then for people to personally create their own MLS. In using such kits they would have possibly used some border tape to go all around the edges of the glass positive, which is kind of what it looks like around the edges of your item, like it was wrapped in old electrician's tape. Look up images of Magic Lantern Slides online and you'll see what I mean about professionally produced MLS. They were meant to be used in a projection machine (like more modern slide projectors) and need to be a standard, uniform size. Something about your item doesn't quite seem to fit that mold. I am no photography expert, but am not so sure it is a true, professionally prepared Magic Lantern Slide from the period. Good question is if it was created from a true glass negative, what happened to the negative? Also, can you research and find a copy of this image or team picture anywhere to prove a glass negative once existed that pictures were actually printed or made from? If so, that could help to prove such a negative did in fact exist at one time from which this supposed MLS item you have was made. I find it a little hard to believe though that some amateur would have taken a team picture in 1896 to simply just create a MLS from. A logical reason for thinking a MLS for this would likely have been created some time after the original photo was taken, the question is, how long after? Assuming the image is legitimately created from an original 1896 photo negative, that is a great photo item including Wagner from his last year before joining the Pirates. Good luck with your research.

[Jobu]

I missed your reply, thanks Bob!

You are correct, I don't see any advertising on this and the borders seem like a heavy paper/thick tape, so I think you might be right on with your thinking that this was a kit-produced piece instead of something made for professional distribution - something of a DIY MLS.

This image is known as a cabinet card: https://www.nj.com/passaic-county/20...s-for-90k.html

I am not sure if there is any way to know whether that was produced from a glass negative or not.

Based on all of the good advice in this thread, this seems to be to most likely be a non-professional Magic Lantern Slide that wasn't produced in 1896 but is more likely from the height of Wagner's fame with the Pirates when someone would have wanted to show an old photo of him, so maybe ~1905-1915 would be reasonable.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Jobu

I missed your reply, thanks Bob!

You are correct, I don't see any advertising on this and the borders seem like a heavy paper/thick tape, so I think you might be right on with your thinking that this was a kit-produced piece instead of something made for professional distribution - something of a DIY MLS.

This image is known as a cabinet card: https://www.nj.com/passaic-county/20...s-for-90k.html

I am not sure if there is any way to know whether that was produced from a glass negative or not.

Based on all of the good advice in this thread, this seems to be to most likely be a non-professional Magic Lantern Slide that wasn't produced in 1896 but is more likely from the height of Wagner's fame with the Pirates when someone would have wanted to show an old photo of him, so maybe ~1905-1915 would be reasonable.

Hey Bryan,

You could tell in a heartbeat if that was a professionally produced Magic Lantern Slide (MLS). Since your item is on glass, it does seem that someone may have tried to produce their own MLS from the earlier picture. And the fact that you were able to track down and find the actual cabinet/picture is fanatastic as that verifies the subject matter of the item, and that it definitely includes Wagner. A great item, even if produced later than when the photo was originally taken. I doubt it would be the original glass negative from the actual 1896 photo though.

Again, I am no photo expert, but it may be worthwhile to get your item to someone who is, and see if they can tell you any more about it. Great item and image none the less. Imagine there is also some value to the piece as well. Getting it to a photo expert who knows something about MLSs could get you a better idea of how, and when, it was made.

Can't tell for certain from your scans how clear and defined the image is on your glass slide. But as I mentioned before, I have a small collection of about 15-20 baseball themed MLSs primarily from the mid-1910s, and the clarity and definition on those is absolutely amazing. Can only hope your glass slide image is of a similar condition/shape.

Good luck.

[mrreality68]

Interesting mystery

Great piece of history

[SteveS]

Here's a pin made from the same image, including a copyright date: https://www.hakes.com/Auction/ItemDe...-AND-ED-BARROW

And here's an interesting history on the company that made it. Don't know whether they had anything to do with the slide, but maybe you can glean some clues: https://www.tedhake.com/viewuserdefi...e.aspx?pn=whco