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That is exactly why ERA is a better judge of a pitchers effectiveness. Thanks for proving yourself wrong.
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#2
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ERA and ERA+ aren't necessarily good judges either. Jim Palmer led the AL in ERA in 1973 and beat out Nolan Ryan for the Cy Young by 16 points. His ERA was an AL best 2.49, Ryan's 2.87. Ryan set a MLB record with 383 Ks, Palmer struck out 158, 225 less than Ryan. That was 225 balls hit in play that his fielders turned into outs. The Orioles had the #1 defense in MLB, the Angels had one of the worst. The left side of the Orioles defense had 2 of the 5 greatest defensive players of all time. In CF a 8 time GG winner. At 2B a 4 time GG winner. Ryan had a FIP of 2.49, Palmer 3.38. Ryan even had a bWAR of 7.7 to Palmer's 6.3. Bert Blyleven also had a stronger case for best pitcher than the ERA leader.
Wins is an important stat. So is quality starts. The same for ERA, ERA+, GS, CG, IP, SHO, FIP, WHIP, K, K/9, K/W and even fWAR and bWAR in the context of all stats. There isn't one stat that is better or the best because taken out of context, it doesn't tell us enough. |
#3
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Very good illustration. I'm sure that Ryan had the mentality that he had to go for the strikeout, because he didn't have 'the Three B's behind him. Palmer had all the advantages. I miss pitchers going deeper into games, but, because they no longer do, aces like Scherzer can toss a gem, only to get a ND or L. Clearly Wins as an mark of the best starting pitchers has gone by the way-side. Felix Hernandez got his CY with a 13-12 season and DeGrom won his with 10 and 11 wins. These changes in the way the Game is played have made all the additional statistics viable and necessary. However, for an old-school guy like myself, they give me headaches like the exit velocities of ground-balls that get through the infield. Launch Angle, Barrel Pct.; Spin Rate, Think I'll go play some PONG and read a good book.
__________________
. "A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson “If you have a chance to make life better for others and fail to do so, you are wasting your time on this earth.”- Roberto Clemente |
#4
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__________________
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#5
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https://www.mlb.com/gameday/twins-vs...ox,game=661808
Give it up for Mr. Bundy! Pitched 5 innings...didnt appear in the 6th...yet his team scored a run so his 5 innnings and 4 earned gave him the W. glad to see his team gets 6 innings of at bats, but the home pitcher would of only had 5 innings of at bats had he pitched 5 innings...... |
#6
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Why would this not be the natural order of things? The visiting pitcher doesn't have to pitch the bottom half of the 9th if their team is losing after the top half either. You could make the same argument that the home team should be able to have a chance to pad their stats and get guys some more hits or home runs, etc. The game is over after the top half of the 9th if the home team is winning because it wouldn't make sense for them to bat. It's not an advantage. It's practical. Last edited by packs; 08-15-2022 at 09:47 AM. |
#7
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right but batters not hitting in the 9th is 1/9th of the total hitting.. plus only 3-5 hitters will get a chance to hit lose their chance , not all of them and if their team won then its likely the best hitters already had a good offensive day pitchers who dont have to pitch in the 6th is impacting it at 1/6th which is a huge difference., plus zero need to hit in the bottom of 9th when up but always a need for pitching in the 6th so its not apples to apples... it can be practical not to credit the pitcher with the Win as well ... he gets 6 offensive innings and the home pitcher only gets 5 innings...that a huge difference....afterall this thread talks a lot about how many 'wins' for HOF consideration Also people were arguing with me on this issue not thinking you get a W in that situation because to them it was not believable as opposed to not being practical Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-15-2022 at 01:11 PM. |
#8
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Hear thee! Hear thee!
I have made a few expressions that are used on the board like waterside property cards
Now if a Visting Pitcher gets a W due to his team only because his team got 1 more inning to hit versus the home pitcher.i am now calling those Ws, practical Wins. So Mr. Bundy in this received received a practical W, i wonder who leads the league in practical wins, baseball reference needs get on this ASAP https://www.mlb.com/gameday/twins-vs...ox,game=661808 Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-15-2022 at 01:40 PM. |
#9
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I also think betting odds are very important as it factors into your teams total ability, if you start 10 games and your team was +180 in every start and another pitcher was -300 and the underdog pitcher's team only lost 1 more game due to large part because of their starting pitching, that underdog pitcher would rate higher to me even if 'lost' one more game. Sort of like in foootball if a NFL team in a 17 game season was an UNDERDOG every single game and only won 3 games but covered the spread the other 14 times how can that coach get fired.. talk is cheap, put money where your mouth is.. Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-13-2022 at 09:28 AM. |
#10
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I just love stupid comments like this saying absolutely nothing to prove anything.
"That is exactly why ERA is a better judge of pitcher effectiveness. Thanks for proving yourself wrong." Exactly WTF does "that" mean. Once again, no evidence, logic, facts, proof, etc., and nothing to even show exactly what statements or comments they are supposedly referencing to or disagreeing with. And what exactly was it that was proven wrong? Just another typical, "I'm right, and you're wrong." argument by those that prove or say absolutely nothing. Last edited by BobC; 08-13-2022 at 12:34 PM. |
#11
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You talk about wins defining a pitchers effectiveness, then you talk about unearned runs? You get defensive when people disagree with you. You ignore when others present evidence, then claim that they never presented evidence in the first place. Then you play the victim? |
#12
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#13
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Gee-why does that sound so very familiar? By the way, does anyone agree with me when I think unearned runs created by the pitcher's fielding errors should be listed as earned runs? Wouldn't that add more credence to saying how important the ERA stats is? .
__________________
. "A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson “If you have a chance to make life better for others and fail to do so, you are wasting your time on this earth.”- Roberto Clemente |
#14
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That and wild pitches.
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