Franchise Four is now Three - Hank's place?

[Bigdaddy]

There's several threads on Net54 about Hank's passing and what a great gentleman he was, both on and off the field, so I won't try to add to that discussion.

So my question to you is, who takes his place on the Franchise Four that MLB put out several years ago? For those not familiar, it recognized the four greatest living ball players at the time. And those were Aaron, Bench, Koufax and Mays.

As I thought about this, I came up with several different ball players and each has an argument. If Tom Terrific had not have died last year, he might have taken that spot, but alas, he is not with us. So who is your pick??? I know what mine is.

[Casey2296]

Bud Selig of course!

Gotta be Brooksy or Yaz.

[MCyganik]

I would vote for either Carl Yastrzemski or Brooks Robinson. When you say ‘franchise’ it’s hard to look past these two one-team stars of their respective franchises for three decades.

[MCyganik]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Bud Selig of course!

Gotta be Brooksy or Yaz.

Beat me by seconds. GMTA!

[Fred]

When the word "franchise" is used, does that imply a one team player?

[rats60]

None of those guys. My top 3 would be Mike Schmidt, George Brett and Rickey Henderson.

[perezfan]

Mike Schmidt tends to be overlooked a lot on these types of surveys. He was pretty much the greatest 3rd Baseman of all-time, and is still with us.

If not him, then I would say Pete Rose.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Mike Schmidt tends to be overlooked a lot on these types of surveys. He was pretty much the greatest 3rd Baseman of all-time, and is still with us.

If not him, then I would say Pete Rose.

With one more spot, Schmidt would have made my list. Considered by many (most?) as the greatest 3B ever, but doesn't usually make the cut when talking about the greatest ballplayers ever. IDK???

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Fred

When the word "franchise" is used, does that imply a one team player?

No, just 'greatest living ballplayer'. At least on this poll.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

With one more spot, Schmidt would have made my list. Considered by many (most?) as the greatest 3B ever, but doesn't usually make the cut when talking about the greatest ballplayers ever. IDK???

Don't want to be confrontational... just a hearty and heathy disagreement. Mariano Rivera was on the list, and not Schmidt. Schmidt was a perenial Gold Glover and 500 Home Run Club member. He WAS the franchise and yes, one of the greatest players ever.

To have any relief pitcher listed there (nothing against Mariano) and not Schmidt is ridiculous, IMHO. I'd put Brett, Henderson, Ripken and Ryan ahead of Mariano as well.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

No, just 'greatest living ballplayer'. At least on this poll.

Take Yaz or Brooks and you get both.

[Bigdaddy]

If you choose "Someone else", please do tell who that player is.

[yanksfan09]

Not sure who I would pick but some other guys worthy of consideration off the top of my head: Albert Pujols (maybe some suspect steroids but no evidence and all time great #s) , Ken Griffey Jr., Miguel Cabrera, Pedro Martinez, Greg Maddux, Derek Jeter, Mike Trout (lol), Alex Rodriguez (if considering steroid guys) I'm sure a few others I'm not thinking of at the moment...

[D. Bergin]

Assuming they would never give Bonds that honor, I would have to go with Rickey Henderson.

There's also a bunch of guys I wouldn't argue against if it came down to it.

[campyfan39]

Brooks

[D. Bergin]

My best bet on who they would actually pick, if they officially filled Hank's spot on that plaque, would be Griffey Jr..

[Peter_Spaeth]

Leaving steroids to one side (obviously Bonds if you don't), how is Koufax there but not Schmidt? A 150 game winner versus an easy pick for the all-time starting lineup? Koufax, all the mystique aside, isn't anywhere near Maddux or Randy Johnson either.

[FrankWakefield]

Pujols and Maddux seem sensible choices.

Yaz and B Robinson seem to be more generally accepted as bigger stars, but I think that in 20 years and thereafter, both Pujols and Maddux will be considered as bigger stars.

I saw Mike Schmidt play. Several times in person, and a bunch of times on television; and probably listened to about 150 of his games on a radio. He deserves to be in the Hall of Fame in my opinion, and more so than some subsequent inductees. He was great in the field. He was respected, he had a strong arm and could hit a ball a long way. But his lifetime average was in the .260s, he lead the league in strikeouts 4 seasons. My recollection of his at bats was having the sense that something was about to happen. There were usually consequences to him being at the plate... a home run was realistically possible, no matter the pitcher. Hits and RBIs were possible. A walk was possible, he walked a lot. And he could srtike out and ground into double plays. With a winning or tying run at second base late in a game, I'd pick Yaz to hit over Schmidt every time, regardless the pitcher.

So...

1- a tie, Pujols or Maddux
3- Yaz
4- B Robinson

[bnorth]

Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, or Albert Pujols.

[Robbie]

George Brett

[tedzan]

I'm in agreement with Frank Wakefield....Yaz is the guy.

I was at Cooperstown the weekend Yaz was inducted in the HOF. I met him earlier that day, and we had a really nice conversation...... "Talkin' BaseBall".
But, this is not the reason I favor him.

I admire him for achieving something, that only one other ballplayer (in modern times) has achieved. Yaz stepped in the "footprints" of one of BaseBall's
greatest legends, Ted Williams, and Yaz achieved greatness. This is not an easy task to accomplish (just think about it).

The other guy to achieve this feat, was of course Mickey Mantle.






TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Shoeless Moe]

Joe Rudi

[riggs336]

Clemens, Schmidt, Pujols, Yaz in that order.

[luciobar1980]

I could have sworn Yaz had already passed. Whoops! My vote is Pete Rose though.

[doug.goodman]

Mariano Rivera?

Really?

Ugh

The guy averaged 78 innings played per year.

He seldom, if ever, entered a game where his team didn't already have a 90% chance of winning.

Great at the job he was asked to do, I get it.

But come on, if he was so f'ing good how come he sat on the bench for more than 1380 innings each year?

Maybe we should add Herb Washington to the poll options.

[Ricky]

Ken Griffey Jr.

[Big Red Machine]

My vote would go to Mike Schmidt, the greatest 3rd baseman of all-time.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Big Red Machine

My vote would go to Mike Schmidt, the greatest 3rd baseman of all-time.

+1

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[maniac_73]

Did Greg Maddux pass away? Because that would be the only reason he's not on this list

[pokerplyr80]

Mays, Bonds, Griffey, Clemens

[Bigdaddy]

Note - this is not an endorsement of any of these measures and the intent of the OP is not to get into a discussion of the merits of WAR or HOF vote. My only intention is to highlight some other measures of a player's career. So, one way to measure a player's career is to look at their % of HOF votes. Not perfect, but a lot of (at least somewhat) knowledgeable folks voted. Of course, this doesn't include any current players or ones who recently retired. The top 15 living players (1-15):

Rivera
Jeter
Griffey, Jr
Ryan
Ripken
Brett
Gwynn
Randy J
Maddux
Chipper
Schmidt
Bench
Carlton
Rickey
Yaz


Another way to measure a career is by WAR. Here is the top 12 living position players by WAR (and Mays is 3, Aaron 5 and Bench 50):

Bonds, #1 overall
Arod
Rickey
Schmidt
Albert
Yaz
Ripken
Beltre
Boggs
Brett
Chipper
Griffey, Jr

And the top living pitchers, by WAR (Koufax is 89, due to his short career):

Clemens
Maddux
Randy Johnosn
Blyleven
Gaylord
Pedro
Carlton
Ryan
Mussina
Fergie
Schilling
Glavine

[Bigdaddy]

So who's your pick, Doug??

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Mariano Rivera?

Really?

Ugh

The guy averaged 78 innings played per year.

He seldom, if ever, entered a game where his team didn't already have a 90% chance of winning.

Great at the job he was asked to do, I get it.

But come on, if he was so f'ing good how come he sat on the bench for more than 1380 innings each year?

Maybe we should add Herb Washington to the poll options.

[cardsfan73]

Non active? Schmidt or Griffey Jr.

Active? Pujols

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

So who's your pick, Doug??

Yaz

[71buc]

Griffey
Rickey
Trout

[Exhibitman]

Bonds. Head to head he is head and shoulders above the rest, considering play only.

[bmattioli]

Considering on field only, Pete Rose..

[MVSNYC]

The word Franchise was used because it was highlighting the 4 best living players who played their entire careers with one team (save for one or two throw a way seasons at the end of their careers).

I'll submit Derek Jeter and Cal Ripken Jr....Mike Trout will be there someday, needs more years with his team.

[Ricky]

Barry Bonds should never replace Henry Aaron on anything ever again.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

The word Franchise was used because it was highlighting the 4 best living players who played their entire careers with one team (save for one or two throw a way seasons at the end of their careers).

I'll submit Derek Jeter and Cal Ripken Jr....Mike Trout will be there someday, needs more years with his team.

I think the term franchise refers to players that you would want to start a franchise with. You have the greatest center fielder, the greatest left handed pitcher, the greatest catcher, adding the greatest third baseman fits the theme best.

[ClementeFanOh]

Rod Carew (certainly belongs in the conversation given many of the players
already mentioned)- Trent King

[Aaron Seefeldt]

Rickey or Albert

[MVSNYC]

Originally Posted by rats60

I think the term franchise refers to players that you would want to start a franchise with. You have the greatest center fielder, the greatest left handed pitcher, the greatest catcher, adding the greatest third baseman fits the theme best.

Actually, players were voted via teams, and which players represented each of the 30 "Franchise" the best. Then they created a "Mt. Rushmore" of the 4 best.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-teams-history

https://www.mlb.com/news/greatest-li...ed/c-136694204

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/...o105nu9pfsqpww

[7nohitter]

Griffey Jr.

[71buc]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

The word Franchise was used because it was highlighting the 4 best living players who played their entire careers with one team (save for one or two throw a way seasons at the end of their careers).

I'll submit Derek Jeter and Cal Ripken Jr....Mike Trout will be there someday, needs more years with his team.

I felt crazy saying Trout in this conversation. I’m old school Roberto and Hank are my favorite all time players. I live in the NW and saw JR from the beginning to end of his career. My Dad is 80 and grew up at Municipal and Forbes. He saw DiMaggio, Williams, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Clemente and their ilk. When I asked him who the best player he ever saw was he answered Mantle, Griffey, and Trout. I would say the best I ever saw were Griffey and Trout. After a decade of amazing feats, production, and accolades Trout most definitely belongs in this conversation.

[David W]

Willie Mays. Mic drop

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Bonds. Head to head he is head and shoulders above the rest, considering play only.

And what a head it was!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

In the spirit of the exercise let's replace the previous greatest living Brave with the current one Maddux.

[Fred]

My fab 4:

Mays - no reason necessary for this pick.

This one even surprises myself because I hate the Yankees, especially after watching game 4 of the 1998 WS from the stands and having to see the Yanks dog pile on my Padres infield - Jeter. Jeter is old school. He kept his mouth shut and let his skills do the talking.

Steve Carlton - how do you win 27 games on a team that only wins 59 games all year? 300 game winner, 4K K's. Yeah, Blyleven has more ShOuts lifetime, but lefty was a great pitcher. Tough to pick a pitcher out of the bunch that's on the living list. I just can't pick a reliever. If so, it'd have been Mariano, hands down. I'd probably have picked Koufax but his star burned bright for a short period of time. He also pitched at a time when ERAs were pretty low. Yup, baseball sacrilege. Koufax was INCREDIBLE for 6 years.

Pick 4 goes to Ricky Henderson. Very colorful and misunderstood but arguably the best lead-off hitter to play the game.

[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Bonds. Head to head he is head and shoulders above the rest, considering play only.

I second this. It’s Bonds. He’ll be a HOFer when all is said and done.