This is what the postal clerk said.....

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Posted By: T206Monsta

Today for about the 4,000th time (at least it seems that long) I went to the USPO to mail a card INSURED. The clerk says "Is this paper?" I said yes, "It's a card." She goes on to tell me "You can insure it if you want but paper matter isn't insurable." I explain that I've sent and received hundreds and hundreds of items that meet this criteria and the clerks have taken the insurance money and insured them. She goes on to say that it's not correct and "How can you prove the value..." Well that's another argument in itself. Not overly concerned (as I've Never lost a package either way), I told her, I'd like to insure these and be on my way. She went on to say I should be sending card Registerd (I think this would be cost prohibitive unless the card was really expensive, wouldn't it?)and that she is good friends with the "Claims Representative" in my town and that is what she said.

So, I ask you all to give me your thoughts on this topic\question. Have I\we been foolish in assuming that they are insurable or is this woman off on her interpretation of the postal rules? I'm off to search the USPO web-site.

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Posted By: TBob

I suppose she thinks letters signed by George Washington are only worth the cost of the stationery or that postage stamps with upside down airplanes from the early 1900's are only worth 37 cents. What a moron. I have helped two collectors in the last 6 years collect on insurance where cards sent were ripped out of the envelopes or lost. The USPS paid both times. She sounds like she needs a man. Sorry Julie for the sexist comment, but this really steams me...

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Posted By: Paul

I've never heard this before. My only experience with postal insurance (aside from purchasing it) occurred several years ago. I ordered a large cardboard display piece. I suspect this would qualify as "paper" in your postal clerk's eyes. Anyhow, it arrived folded in half. I showed the postal insurance clerk the item and no objection was raised that it was paper.

There's also an interesting second half to this story. The clerk asked me whether the folded-in-half item had any salvage value. Before I answered, she very kindly told me that if it had any remaining value, the post office would keep it and auction it off. If it had no value, I could keep it, and receive a full refund. So, if you are ever in that situation yourself, you may want to think long and hard before telling the post office that the value of your item was "cut in half" rather than "made worthless."

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

USPS insurance is a scam and I refuse to play along any more. My one experience trying to recoup a lost item (sent) was akin to slow torture inevitably ending in death; they wouldn't pay up even when the buyer and I proved that they mishandled the package. $170 and several hours gone into the ether... From now on, I'll bite the postman and let the dog look elsewhere.

Bill

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Posted By: petecld

GO TO ANOTHER POST OFFICE.

The standard (and only) question I get is, "Is it liquid, fragile or parishable?" My standard answer is, "No, but I still don't want you trying to drink it, kick it, or set it on fire."

I then get the "everyone's a comedian" look and a Govt. approved smile.

You're right, registered mail for inexpensive items is cost prohibitive. I have sent more insured items - almost all cards - then I care to think about and I HAVE NEVER had to tell them what is in the envelopes and how am I going to justify making a insurance claim. They have no business beyond needing to know if what's in the parcel is hazardous or potentially illegal.

Seriously, if it's an option - go to aonther post office.

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Posted By: T206Monsta

The only reason I posted it is that this was the first time I ever heard this. I actually try to spread out my visits to various POs in the area. I think her comfort with knowing me a regular prompted her to feel comfortable to "overanalyze her reponsiblity and the USPO rules." Maybe they had a preliminary New Year's Eve Champagne bottle popped in the back. The comment, how can you put a value on it is absurd, of course you can value it.

By the way, if I send cards supported by cardboard or the like instead of the big fat jiffy bags, I do have them stamp "Fragile" and "Do Not Bend". That goes for insurance also, I always get them to mark Fragile because then they really have no excuse. WHich makes me think that they play basketball with the ones that don't say Fragile.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

One of them is a week late, and was sent at the same time as another registered card which arrived. They were sent in separate packages because sender couldn't get enough insurance to insure both in one package.

Needless to say, I am scared stiff. Yes, registered and insured is the way to go, but nothing's perfect.
If I'd wanted the money, I wouldn't have bought the card!

There is a problem with registered and insured, or maybe you consider it a blessing. The price of the postage AND insurance is right on the stamp! Registered mail has to be signed for by everyone who touches it--but I don't know if the P.O., would stoop to questioning employees if something went missing somewhere. Even if they had to pay insurance that cost $35.

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Posted By: Ben

...One was sent on the 19th, the other on the 20th. Both are registered and insured and have tracking numbers. However, the USPS online tracking service hasn't been updated since the day they were registered.

Needless to say, I'm pretty pissed off, $10 extra was spent on each card for them to be registered, and I don't even know if they've moved an inch in the past 2 weeks? That's a load of BS if you ask me.

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Posted By: Tom B.

okay a plug......we scan everything at every stop along the way. And UPS is FAR cheaper than the post office when you have to purchase some insurance. We're 35 cents per 100 bucks, they're $2.00 for the first hundred and a buck up from there.......second day air is a good value for the service...........

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Posted By: kyle lentine

I encountered this same thing a few months ago. I was shipping some cards off to be graded and the clerk said to you want insurance? I said yes for $4,000. She said do you mind me asking what is in the box. I said some valuable baseball cards. She told me dont waste your money, she works on insurance claims all the time.
She said the post office would not pay out on this insurance claim if the package was lost and probably not even it was damaged. She said they "are paper items" and they would only pay off on the cost of reprinting or copying them. Also that amount of insurace for that type of item poses a problem for them.
She also said I would actually have to prove the cards condition at time of shipment, and have copies of acutal bills of sale for them to even consider paying on them, and that would only be in the case if they were damaged. If they were lost, I would have to prove the cards were actually in the package at the time they were sent, and again it would be highly unlikely they would pay on it anyway.

She said, again that she deals with this regularly, she is a SUPERVISOR, and knows from experience this to be the case and not to waste my money on insurance that would likely not be paid, being these were "paper items" and the insurance was for such a "large amount". Obviously this statement comes out of clerks mouths more often than some people may think
The post office stinks!!

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

For both the card that arrived and the c ard that's a week late, I have tried every day to track them with their tracking numbers, and USPS.com always says it never heard of either of them.

Hurrah for the bonny blue post office...

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Posted By: rod

Just received some large old photos clearly marked-Fragile Do not bend. Naturally, it was folded in half by good old USPS. Bill is right . I have had many deliveries thru UPS with no problems. And they are fast. USPS tracking is a joke.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Sorry, but anyone that thinks UPS is great and gives a rats arse about your package, is sadly mistaken. 15 years later, I still hold a seriously deep hatered for UPS because of over $100,000 in memorabilia disapearing in a one month span. Investigation of the driver dilvery packages to me. No investigation at all to see who might have opened the packages and emptied the contents. No attempt to make a customer happy. Just a "Here's your check. Now get the hell out of here and leave us alone."

In 20+ years of using the post office I have had zero packages lost and 2 items damaged. In 5 years of using UPS I lost all items from 6 packages and had items in 5 others damaged. Would you use?

UPS will never EVER get my business again and I will bad mouth them until the day I die.

Jay

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Posted By: Tom B.

they paid your claims, unlike what everyone is saying about USPS. Plus a lot happens in 15 years and it's short-sighted to not re-investigate our/their service. Carry that grudge to the grave..........My opinion only.........

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Posted By: jay behrens

This is exactly the attitude I got from UPS, "Be glad youa re getting the insurance money." Myself and my clients could ahve cared less about the money. 2 one-of-a-kind pieces were stolen.

you tell me, if you have $100k worth of stuff stolen, several that could not be replaced, the company tells you there will be no investigation and be glad you are getting any money from us, would ever be willing to do business with that company again, regardless of how much time passed?

Jay

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Posted By: rod

I can understand being bitter about losing $100,000 worth of stuff. But I can guarantee you that if a popularity poll on service was done in this area ( N.E. Ohio ), UPS would win hands down. However, I have also heard that USPS service varies a lot regionally.Personally I can' t conceive of shippng $100,000 of stuff with anyone.I'd Probably want to deliver it personally in an armored truck.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Jay-

15 years later? I don't know much about UPS's service, but 15 years ago is a lifetime for any company. I'm not advocating that you switch carriers, just that you hug your mailman for his continued excellence

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Posted By: T206Monsta

Just to follow up on what I started.

Here is what ththe USPS web site says under what is Eligible for Insurance.

Eligible Matter
1.2
The following types of mail matter may be insured:
a. Package Services.
b. First-Class Mail (including Priority Mail), if it contains matter that may be
mailed as Package Services.
c. Standard Mail pieces subject to the residual shape surcharge (bulk insurance
only).
d. Official government mail endorsed “Postage and Fees Paid.”

There is no mention that paper isn't covered.

Further, I asked to seperate postal clerks today at a completetly different office and they said. "You can insure anything as long as you have proof of it's value such as a receipt or an appraisal."

From that I would conclude that ebay print screens, ebay mails, payment by Paypal, MO, checks, etc. would not only prove it existed but prove a "Market Value" and therefore make it insurable.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

who order drinks and one asks for a clean glass. The waiter then comes back and asks which one ordered the clean glass.

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Posted By: Sandy

I buy and sell Civil War letters, cards etc and normally ship Priority Mail. In the past I've asked for insurance and have received the same reply from the clerk - if it's paper you can't insure it unless you send it registered mail. A friend of mine says it's "ephemera" and they let her insure it. But she sends items book rate (or whatever they call it now). I say it's a collectible and that usually gets past them.

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Posted By: marcus0202

I will soon enough get to the bottom of all legal issues regarding insruance of baseball cards. In December, I bought a card on ebay for $1700 and the card was insured for the same amount. Sure enough, the card was lost. The sender filed an insurance claim with his local branch. And the claim was lost too! I filed a duplicate claim and teh seller has been very cooperative, giveing me the insurance info and the receipt from filing the claim. In my case, I have no problem proving value as I had just purchased the card. If the branch offices can successfully transport either the original or duplicate claim to St. Louis (so retarded), I will be dealing directly with the USPS Claims Division. It is definitely the case that if I am not persistent with phone calls, follow-up claims, etc., I will never see a dime. By now, I am pretty P.O.'d about the whole experience and am going to latch on to the seat of their pants like an agry pit bull. By that I mean that if my claim is denied, I intend to appeal and then sue the post office (it helps that I'm an atty). If I learn anything interesting along the way, I will post it here. Thanks.

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Posted By: 823dek

I think that I went to the extreme of proving that the insurance is a scam. Iwas sending 10k + out and just so happened to be conversating w/ a clerk and she to my amazment stated that I would have to prove that the contents were worth 5k ( since it is the maximum) to be compensated and that they would fight me to hells end to prove me wrong !

I went home got a Krause guide and asked for the supervisor and demanded that he go over these cards w/ me and that I wanted him to sign a letter stating that we had done this ! He said we or nor other post office would do this practice, so I asked then "why" is there a price to insure these if your not going to back this up? He then mumbled some idle garble and I left to go to another P.O so that at least he couldn't screw w/ that package. I still go there , but say nothing about it anymore.

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Posted By: AdamBaxter

I used to work for the USPS and I can honestly say that these experiences some you guys have had are really odd. First of all, I have NEVER been asked what I'm mailing/insuring or to "prove" the value of the item I was mailing. The only question I usually get asked when I'm insuring something, is the value and whether or not it's fragile/perishable/liquid. So far as I know, having to substantiate the value of the item your insuring is not USPS policy, UNLESS you are filing a claim for lost or damaged merchandise. To be asked to describe the item and/or prove it's value is highly unusual and IMHO means that either the question is asked for either purposes of theft, policy overzealousness or employee ignorance. Once I tell a Postal Clerk that expense vintage baseball cards are coming and going to my P.O. Box, then it won't be long before something ends up "lost". Although it isn't an epidemic, theft (especially at the large Parcel Distribution Facilites) does occasionally occur. If a clerk askes questions that seems unusual or inappropriate my advice is to speak with a supervisor, Postmaster, go to another Post Office or deal with another carrier (UPS, etc.).

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Posted By: Mark McCleary

The USPS paid my claim for the lost baseball card (actually stolen by a USPS employee, but that's another story) I won on ebay - no problems re. insuring a paper item or not having conclusive proof that the card was actually mailed by the seller. There is a requirement to prove original cost, and I'm not sure how the seller demonstrated that, but perhaps they just accepted my (the buyer's) orignal cost which was evidenced by my ebay invoice and canceled check. It did take 4 months from start to finish, and it took a lot of time and effort on my part to bug USPS employees to do their jobs, but at least the claim was paid promptly once it reached the insurance division in St. Louie. USPS Publication 122 mentions uninsurable items, but does not mention paper items or baseball cards - I think the USPS clerks that say otehrwise are misinformed.

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Posted By: Halleygator

I have filed an insurance claim with the USPS in the past for a lost baseball card ... and they paid the claim with no hassles.

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

The USPS paid off my $400 claim promptly with no problem-- I'd agree that the employees who said that no claims are ever paid are either drastically misinformed or running some obscure scam.

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Posted By: 823dek

Not everyone has the same circumstance, my cards totaled 10,000.00 + and I had gotten the supervisor involved.
Now if the latter comments were in no reference to my post...fine , but be careful anyways. I do not want you to have a misinformed supervisor, which I did mention.

Anything can happen this day and age !...be careful .