The Shift being stopped new rule

[1952boyntoncollector]

I am amazed with the Shift being around from before Ted Williams time that all of the sudden it was a problem. Yes i know its employed a ton more but there were arguably more homers being hit with the shift on as well and some other pro hitter arguments.

I didnt realize major league hitters couldnt it a ball to a side of the field where zero people are. While we marvel at a lot of the elite talent on the field these days and yes there is a lot of it, its still amazing to me how untalented people are in terms of hitting the ball softly in 50% area of the field.that they had to make rules to change it.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I am amazed with the Shift being around from before Ted Williams time that all of the sudden it was a problem. Yes i know its employed a ton more but there were arguably more homers being hit with the shift on as well and some other pro hitter arguments.

I didnt realize major league hitters couldnt it a ball to a side of the field where zero people are. While we marvel at a lot of the elite talent on the field these days and yes there is a lot of it, its still amazing to me how untalented people are in terms of hitting the ball softly in 50% area of the field.that they had to make rules to change it.

It's a disgusting slap in the face for baseball fundamentals and a clear message from the commissioner that all that matters is home runs.

[RCMcKenzie]

I think MLB wants more baserunners. They don't want Jose Altuve playing in a rover softball position, and scooping up every line-drive, would be single to right, and throwing the guy out at first. I think we will see many left-handed hitters increase their batting averages by 50-80 points next year.

[clydepepper]

Terry Francona posted his regrets for the ban on shifts...and, as much as I dislike them...the disconnect is that hitters have not, and will never, adjust to those shifts and hit the ball the other way.

Those days are gone bye-bye.


Supposedly, the idea behind these changes is to speed up the game and thereby hoping to add excitement.

Instead, batting averages and on-base percentages will continue to drop at a faster and faster rate.


The NEW Curse of the Bambino:

'Damn the Triples, full PULL ahead!


Why not make second base out of whoopie-cushions? Great for head-first slides.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I think MLB wants more baserunners. They don't want Jose Altuve playing in a rover softball position, and scooping up every line-drive, would be single to right, and throwing the guy out at first. I think we will see many left-handed hitters increase their batting averages by 50-80 points next year.

or can train kids from 12 years old to slap a ball to 50% of the field softly...dont need any launch angle and mph off the bat can be 5 mph and will get a single or double more than 1 out of 3 times

[RCMcKenzie]

I played high school baseball over 35 years ago, and my recollection is that I was lucky just to hit a foul ball. I was trying to hit it up the middle, but today, there would be a dude there behind 2nd base with a glove.


I can only think of a few players that I have seen with enough skill to hit it where they ain't. Carew, Gwynn, Boggs, Rose, Ichiro. Who am I missing?

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I played high school baseball over 35 years ago, and my recollection is that I was lucky just to hit a foul ball. I was trying to hit it up the middle, but today, there would be a dude there behind 2nd base with a glove.


I can only think of a few players that I have seen with enough skill to hit it where they ain't. Carew, Gwynn, Boggs, Rose, Ichiro. Who am I missing?

The point is that nobody even tries anymore.

They are supposed to be the best at this...and yet, name just one who could 'go op' consistantly.

Freddie Freeman may be the closest in today's game.

[RCMcKenzie]

Freeman is a great hitter. Goldschmidt hits to all fields. He would be a star if he played in New York.

Altuve used to bat .350 with 5 homers and 50 steals. At some point in the middle of his career, he became a dead-pull hitter. .290ish BA, 900 ops, 30 homers, 10 steals.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I just think we dont give enough credit to development

NBA has seen the rise of the 3 point shot when it was said you cant win it all with jump shots as a primary way to win...yet that skill was developed..

having better bat control would be a skill, heck maybe to help it along is you allow the shift for the most innings but not in the 9th inning which would make the 'closers' appear a lot more valuable as you may of seen my posts against most closers not comparing well to starting pitchers for HOF consideration...

[packs]

The two pick off / step offs per at bat is the dumbest rule. How long will it be until people start taking free bases because the pitcher shook a pitch off and wants to reset?

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Supposedly, the idea behind these changes is to speed up the game and thereby hoping to add excitement.

Instead, batting averages and on-base percentages will continue to drop at a faster and faster rate.

I'm not sure I follow the logic there. Banning the shift does not speed up the game; if anything it should produce the opposite. Presumably, balls that used to be hits then became outs will now become hits again. How does more baserunners speed up the game, and how do these extra hits make batting averages and on-base percentages drop?

FWIW, I think banning the shift is a dumb idea.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

The two pick off / step offs per at bat is the dumbest rule. How long will it be until people start taking free bases because the pitcher shook a pitch off and wants to reset?

will be more pitch outs..

[mrreality68]

I hate the banning of the shift and I believe it takes away from baseball and the basics of baseball.
They are supposed to be pro hitters let them "Hit it where they aint" and then they will not shift on that player.
It also takes away more of the strategy of the game.

I do not mind change and evolving the game but i do not think this does that

But reality they are doing it and we have to live with it

[nolemmings]

With regard to speeding up the game, I looked at the 1972 World Series stats the other day and saw that only one of the games lasted longer than 2 1/2 hours, and that was Game Seven. Six of the seven games were decided by one run, and given the high drama of such close games and the pomp and circumstance of the World Series, you would think the TV commercials combined with mound visits, tosses to first, stepping out of the box etc, would have stretched those times out mightily, yet one of the games lasted only 2:06.
It just should not be that hard to speed up play nowadays.

One thing I like is the few commercial spots they show during the game in split-screen format, for 15-30 seconds while a batter approaches the plate or there is a mound visit. Use your commercial time thusly, and eliminate the long delay between innings. Frankly I find myself at least marginally paying attention to the product during those split-screen ads as opposed to muting the damn TV between innings (as an aside, I will never in my life buy a Liberty Mutual Insurance product after being swamped with those stupid Emu and Doug commercials). Granted, with more in-game ads we might miss out on extra Eduardo Perez babble or similar inanity from the so-called "analysts", but I'm willing to make that sacrifice.

[RCMcKenzie]

Ted Williams did not beat the shift by going oppo-taco. He just kept pulling the ball. He was before my time.

Shifting on every batter after observing their statcast hitting chart cluster is a very new concept. I think Tampa and Joe Madden started it, and the Astros from 2015 have dominated with the strategy.
I'm thinking banning the shift will bring back the good ol' days, not take them away.

[packs]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

will be more pitch outs..

You won't catch a guy stealing during your pitch selection with a pitch out. The only way a pitch out works is if a runner has to wait for a pitch to be thrown before they take off. If you can't hold a guy on with a throw over, he risks nothing taking off as soon as the catcher throws the ball back to you.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

You won't catch a guy stealing during your pitch selection with a pitch out. The only way a pitch out works is if a runner has to wait for a pitch to be thrown before they take off. If you can't hold a guy on with a throw over, he risks nothing taking off as soon as the catcher throws the ball back to you.

Jon Lester like never throws to first and people werent stealing every time..not saying base stealing wont go up.

i do think they can throw to second base though as thats not a pickoff but trying to stop an attempted steal

[D. Bergin]

Weren't people just complaining not too long ago, there's not enough base stealing and small ball going on anymore.

[packs]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Jon Lester like never throws to first and people werent stealing every time..not saying base stealing wont go up.

i do think they can throw to second base though as thats not a pickoff but trying to stop an attempted steal

Again, you had the threat of a throw over at the very least with Lester. This rule eliminates the possibility of a throw over in game situations. It is not the same thing and it does give you an advantage if you're able to draw two throws. You can run at will after that.

[D. Bergin]

Lester was a Lefty, which by itself keeps most base runners somewhat honest.

Also, at the height of his yips in 2015 he DID allow 44 stolen bases at an 80% success rate...which is pretty atrocious for a lefty in a mostly non-running era of baseball.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Lester was a Lefty, which by itself keeps most base runners somewhat honest.

Also, at the height of his yips in 2015 he DID allow 44 stolen bases at an 80% success rate...which is pretty atrocious for a lefty in a mostly non-running era of baseball.

still how many bases is that a start and he was zero threat to throw to first

and after 2 throws to first you can do a pitchout and i believe you can also throw to 2nd if no runner is there, again stolen bases will of course go up but wont be much crazier that runners did against Lester..

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

Again, you had the threat of a throw over at the very least with Lester. This rule eliminates the possibility of a throw over in game situations. It is not the same thing and it does give you an advantage if you're able to draw two throws. You can run at will after that.

Lester was not a threat to throw over, when its 99% no chance to throw over thats not a real threat.

[packs]

You don't seem to be differentiating between something you choose not to do and a rule against doing it.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

You don't seem to be differentiating between something you choose not to do and a rule against doing it.

its the same thing or at least is something you can point too to show there is some type of a limit as being able to steal a base when a pitcher doesnt throw to first..which happened..

[packs]

It's definitively not the same thing. This is a rule whereas before you mentioned a pitcher who chose not to do something. Rule and option are not the same things.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

It's definitively not the same thing. This is a rule whereas before you mentioned a pitcher who chose not to do something. Rule and option are not the same things.

still im talking about the outcome not rule or option....outcome..dont care about how we got there....

several players against Lester stated they knew he wasnt going to throw to first....doest matter if rule or his option....whether they were able to steal or not is the outcome.....

[RCMcKenzie]

A Yahoo baseball writer shows this graph for next years' shifting chart. To get around the rule, teams will just move the left fielder in to short right field rover position. Basically, same for left handed pull hitters as it is today. Oh well, the mlb tried.