Help with Oriole old-Timers Team Photo (plus Honus)

[OldOriole]

All,

I recently picked up a very interesting baseball photo from the family of Old Oriole Hall-of-Famer Joe Kelley. It contains 19 ball players, at least 10 of which are wearing Orioles uniforms (not all from the same year). This appears to be when the old Baltimore Orioles came back on an "Old Timers" Day along with some other former big leaguers, including Honus Wagner.

I'm hoping to get some help in identifying the players. Also, the approximate year of this reunion (in Baltimore?). The back of the photo indicates a few of the names already:

Top Row (Left to right):
1. Hans Wagner
2. Butcher Boy Schmidt (this makes sense as he was born and died in Baltimore. Additionally, he played on the minor league Baltimore Orioles teams from 1907-1912).
3. Ed Walsh
4. Alan Russell
5. ? Left Russell ?
6. Bill Bradley
7. Joe Kelley (in the hat and bow tie)
8. Bernard Gough
9. ? Steve Brodie?
10. Rube Parnham (played for Baltimore 1917-1926)

Middle Row (Left to right):
1. Clark Griffith
2. Lew Ritter
3. Bill Byers
4. George Maisel
5. Fritz Maisel (born and died in Baltimore. Played with Baltimore 1911-1913, 1919-1928)
6. Al Shacht (seems like quite a character)

Bottom Row (Left to right):
1. Jimmy Collins
2. Doc Kerr
3. Buck Herzog (in his NY uniform, also born and died in Baltimore)
4. Nick Altrock
5. Rube Oldring


THANK YOU!!!

[spec]

It's Al Schacht, not Shack.

[jjp3rd]

Fantastic piece


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OldOriole]

Originally Posted by spec

It's Al Schacht, not Shack.

Spec, thanks for the correction.

[lumberjack]

Jimmy Collins could be the man sitting at the far left. Bresnahan could be the man standing next to Rube Parnham. Late 1930s?
Great image.
lumberjack

[OldOriole]

Originally Posted by lumberjack

Jimmy Collins could be the man sitting at the far left. Bresnahan could be the man standing next to Rube Parnham. Late 1930s?
Great image.
lumberjack

Thanks for chiming in. I think your guess of late 1930's is a good one. Out of the players positively ID'ed, Joe Kelley passed away first in 1943. I'm alson looking at what the fans are wearing in the stands.

[Casey2296]

Mid to late 30's based on the hats in the crowd. I wanna say that's Rabbit Maranville middle back row but he was never with the O's.

[TheBig6]

Kinda looks like Clark Griffith far left middle row.

[OldOriole]

Here's a couple of close ups....

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by lumberjack

Jimmy Collins could be the man sitting at the far left.
lumberjack

I agree with the ID of Collins. Here is a 1930 photo of him with the 1903 Boston infield:

[lumberjack]

The man next to Maisel is wearing a 1919 Cubs uni. I think it's Charlie Pick, who lived in Virginia and would have been semi-close to Baltimore.
The hatless guy is the back row is Ed Walsh. I'm sure of it.
What I don't understand is how they brought this disparate group of men together for a on-field reunion. Some have Baltimore connections, others nothing.
lumberjack

[OldOriole]

This is great! Thanks lumberjack and RUKen. What an interesting gathering of baseball players, especially on the all-star side.

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by TheBig6

Kinda looks like Clark Griffith far left middle row.

I agree.

[OldOriole]

Thanks for all the contributions, I've tried to update the original post.

The jerseys are also interesting. It looks like Rube Parnham is wearing his original Baltimore uniform from the late teens-early 1920's. Buck Herzog and Charlie Pick are too. Someone (still unidentified so far) is wearing an A's uniform in the front row. Then, there are 10 former players with identical "Baltimore" jerseys. This includes some who never played for Baltimore. I can't pin this design to a specific year (although someone else may be able to) and think they may be generic. So, maybe these were given out for the occasion. I can see some had different hats though. Wish I knew my hat identifications better.

[milkit1]

Rube Oldring first row far right

[milkit1]

Dazzy Vance second row, second from left

[OldOriole]

Thanks, Sean. I've added Vance and Oldring. I see Oldring is wearing his old Brooklyn cap.

[Hankphenom]

Clark Griffith is not in this photo.

[OldOriole]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Clark Griffith is not in this photo.

Hank, I'll put a question mark by his name in the OP since it's not unanimous the guy on the far left in the middle row is Clark Griffith or not.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by OldOriole

Hank, I'll put a question mark by his name in the OP since it's not unanimous the guy on the far left in the middle row is Clark Griffith or not.

There is some resemblance, so I'll give it 90-10 it's not him. Also, what would be his connection to Baltimore? Don't know that I'd bet my house on it, but it's not Griffith.

[milkit1]

I agree I dont think its Griffith though there is a resemblance. Its driving me crazy whom it is because he is very familiar. Same with the player 5 from the left on top row. Someone please figure this out so ai can sleep tonight

[lumberjack]

No, that's not Clark Griffith, who by this time looked rather frail. I don't think that's Dazzy Vance, either. He was this big, red-faced guy who always looked old, but that is not him.
lumberjack

[milkit1]

The thing that makes me lean towards that being Vance is that appears to be a Brooklyn hat and not a Baltimore one. Could just he a resemblance again though

[OldOriole]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

There is some resemblance, so I'll give it 90-10 it's not him. Also, what would be his connection to Baltimore? Don't know that I'd bet my house on it, but it's not Griffith.

I know of no Baltimore connections for Griffith. Then again, some of the other players (Honus Wagner, Jimmy Collins) don't have a Baltimore connection either. I have no idea how it was decided who should attend the "Old Timers" Day. Some make sense, some don't - at least not initially.

[OldOriole]

Originally Posted by milkit1

I agree I don't think its Griffith though there is a resemblance. Its driving me crazy whom it is because he is very familiar. Same with the player 5 from the left on top row. Someone please figure this out so ai can sleep tonight

I agree with the guy 5 from left on the top row - he's got a very unique look. Those ears stick out further than Eddie Collins.

[OldOriole]

Originally Posted by lumberjack

No, that's not Clark Griffith, who by this time looked rather frail. I don't think that's Dazzy Vance, either. He was this big, red-faced guy who always looked old, but that is not him.
lumberjack

I'll put a question mark by Vance too. I do think it's a Brooklyn cap, even if it's not Vance.

[ThomasL]

Well this was likely an actual Old Timers Game with one team of Orioles and the other various Old Timers. A quick search I found such a game in Baltimore on 8-8-1931 with Wagner participating. Will check to see if there is a box score (upload failed for the one article I have found so far)

"Nick Altrock and Al Schacht, comedians de luxe, will be the masters of ceremonies."

[ThomasL]

Ya newspaper articles are too big to upload I guess. But this photo is from that game

[ThomasL]

Lew Ritter is middle row, 2nd from left

[ThomasL]

Butch Schmidt is top row 2nd from left

[ThomasL]

Rube Parnham is Top row 1st on the right

[ThomasL]

Bill Byers is middle row 3rd from the left (center)

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by ThomasL

Well this was likely an actual Old Timers Game with one team of Orioles and the other various Old Timers. A quick search I found such a game in Baltimore on 8-8-1931 with Wagner participating. Will check to see if there is a box score (upload failed for the one article I have found so far)

"Nick Altrock and Al Schacht, comedians de luxe, will be the masters of ceremonies."

A blurb from the New York Times mentions the game and identifies a handful of participants, all but one of whom is listed in this thread--- Steve Brodie. I leave it to you all to find him.

[GeoPoto]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Clark Griffith is not in this photo.

When somebody first mentioned Griffith, just looking at the mystery photo, I said to myself: "No way". But then I pulled up this 1931 Senators Photo Pack picture and said: "Well, maybe".

Altrock and Schacht worked for Griffith. Griffith's only connection to the Orioles, besides proximity, was taking over the Highlanders for their first season after they replaced Baltimore in the AL.

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1627671333
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1627671341

[ThomasL]

Other said to be on hand for this game:

Jimmy Collins, Ed Walsh, Bill Bradley, Ned Hanlon, Steve Brodie, Joe Kelley, Jack Doyle, Buck Herzog, Clark Griffith, Red Kronau, Alan Russell, Bill Rapp, Gene McCann, Harry Frank, "Runt" Walsh...guessing Ed Walsh Jr, George Maisel, Buck Freeman, Bernard Gough who was a bat boy but guessing became Magistrate of Baltimore?

[ThomasL]

Clark Griffith was on hand so yes he could be in the photo

[ThomasL]

Joe Kelley...guessing he is one of the men in a suit

[ThomasL]

Article in the Baltimore Sun (8-7-31) a few days before the game with a list of people expected to attend

[ThomasL]

They had a keg of beer off of third base...really wish could upload the pics from the newspaper

[milkit1]

Well that confirms that is Griffith and that is not Vance. I'm wondering if the guy I thought was Vance is Dan Brouthers one year before his death?

[ThomasL]

Who you have as Roger Breshnahan could be Steve Brodie

Also I dont see Charlie Pick as being mentioned in any of the article surrounding this game and I dont think he is in this picture.

[ThomasL]

Originally Posted by milkit1

Well that confirms that is Griffith and that is not Vance. I'm wondering if the guy I thought was Vance is Dan Brouthers one year before his death?

No middle row 2nd from left is Lew Ritter...there was a picture of four of these players in the newspaper IDed and he is one of them

[ThomasL]

Alan Russell is top row 4th from left

[milkit1]

Originally Posted by ThomasL

No middle row 2nd from left is Lew Ritter...there was a picture of four of these players in the newspaper IDed and he is one of them

good call! Thus the Brooklyn hat. I wondered whatever happened to that hat

[milkit1]

Originally Posted by ThomasL

Who you have as Roger Breshnahan could be Steve Brodie

Also I dont see Charlie Pick as being mentioned in any of the article surrounding this game and I dont think he is in this picture.

Definetly not Bresnahan. I agree that could be Brodie

[ThomasL]

I am having trouble finding a picture of him as an old man but I THINK Buck Freeman is Top Row 5th from left

[ThomasL]

Some guys I cant find photos of including the Magistrate Gough (who could be the other guy in a suit maybe?)

Here's what I have and Im 100% sure on the ones that dont have ???

Top Row (Left to right):
1. Hans Wagner
2. Butch Schmidt
3. Ed Walsh
4. Alan Russell
5. ?Buck Freeman?
6. Bill Bradley
7. Joe Kelley
8.
9. ?Steve Brodie?
10. Rube Parnham

Middle Row (Left to right):
1. Clark Griffith
2. Lew Ritter
3. Bill Byers
4. George Maisel
5. Fritz Maisel
6. Al Schacht

Bottom Row (Left to right):
1. Jimmy Collins
2. ?Doc Kerr?
3. Buck Herzog
4. Nick Altrock
5. Rube Oldring

[OldOriole]

Thank you much for the research and the added IDs. Only a few unknowns left. Also thank you for pinpointing the date of the game and photo. That would have been some game to witness.

[Mark17]

For those who wonder why the famous comedy team of Altrock and Schacht aren't posing together, and are basically ignoring each other, here's this from retrosheet:

Ironically, in the midst of this success Altrock and Schacht stopped speaking to each other in 1927. Although Altrock never spoke about the specific reasons for it, their rift was often attributed to a fake prizefight routine that got a little too real. The story is that Schacht thought it would be funnier if he actually hit Nick and so punched the older comic unexpectedly and knocked him to the ground. Altrock got revenge a few days later during a routine where he would normally fire a hard baseball at Schacht for him to dodge and follow it with a soft baseball that Schacht took on the head. Altrock switched the baseballs, and Schacht took a hard blow to the skull and hit the turf.

[lumberjack]

I was extremely wrong about Pick and Bresnahan. Bill Bradley is the man standing next to our right of Rubberarm Russell. Pretty sure about that.
lumberjack