Best lefty off all time? My vote is Koufax!

[G1911]

Originally Posted by cammb

Groves stats as well as others in that era and before are suspect because we have no idea how records were kept, how lenient scoring was and most of all the hitting Just wasn’t that great. I hope that my opinion satisfies your craving as to my meaning of suspect.

Once again, this is easily proven to be completely false garbage. We do know how records were kept. The majors have excellent documentation of this period, for every single league game. What game are the records incorrect or incomplete for? Just one, solitary example.

How was scoring more lenient in 1930 than in 1965?

Hitting WAS great. Far better than during Koufax's period. We can see this in the stats. It's basic math; many more runs were scored in an average game in 1930 than in 1965. This has been explained about 300 times in this thread.

You did not say they were "suspect", you actually said his stats were made up by jock sniffers (implying that God Sandy's are not). But fine, we'll go with suspect.


Have any evidence for your charges about Johnson? Whatsoever? No?


Can we please find a rational argument for the views advanced? We've had logical cases presented for Grove and Johnson. I guess logic is for jock sniffers. This is even more ridiculous than basing a case upon anecdotes one likes. Denying easily verifiable facts is absurd.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by G1911

Lefty Grove’s stats are made up by jock sniffers and Randy Johnson was a steroid abusing cheater because... he was alive when some other people did?

How is this the actual argument for Koufax? This is the stupidest argument one could possibly make. Can we move on to applying some rationality and considering the actual candidates instead of this garbage?

Originally Posted by G1911

Once again, this is easily proven to be completely false garbage. We do know how records were kept. The majors have excellent documentation of this period, for every single league game. What game are the records incorrect or incomplete for? Just one, solitary example.

How was scoring more lenient in 1930 than in 1965?

Hitting WAS great. Far better than during Koufax's period. We can see this in the stats. It's basic math; many more runs were scored in an average game in 1930 than in 1965. This has been explained about 300 times in this thread.

You did not say they were "suspect", you actually said his stats were made up by jock sniffers (implying that God Sandy's are not). But fine, we'll go with suspect.


Have any evidence for your charges about Johnson? Whatsoever? No?


Can we please find a rational argument for the views advanced? We've had logical cases presented for Grove and Johnson. I guess logic is for jock sniffers. This is even more ridiculous than basing a case upon anecdotes one likes. Denying easily verifiable facts is absurd.

I have to evidence against Johnson because I did not accuse him of directly taking steroids. He is suspect as others who performed over their heads as they got older