BBCX wrapping and what it exactly represents..

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Originally Posted by 55koufax

Not a huge collector of unopened material, however, I am curious if it is well known what exactly a Steve Hart BBCX wrapper on a box exactly represents...

I would naturally assume it means the product is authentic and unsearched.

Is this correct?

There are 2 types of authentication. Their regular wrapper means the box is complete and all packs are factory sealed. The From A Sealed Case (FASC) means that they received the original intact case of cards and they guarantee they are exactly as you would have gotten from the company when they were released. Boxes that don’t have FASC have all sealed packs but they can come from different boxes. There’s no way to tell if all of the packs in a 1983 Topps box are original to that box. Hope that helps.

[55koufax]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

There are 2 types of authentication. Their regular wrapper means the box is complete and all packs are factory sealed. The From A Sealed Case (FASC) means that they received the original intact case of cards and they guarantee they are exactly as you would have gotten from the company when they were released. Boxes that don’t have FASC have all sealed packs but they can come from different boxes. There’s no way to tell if all of the packs in a 1983 Topps box are original to that box. Hope that helps.

Yes, in the past 24 hours I have come to learn this.....that said, why doesn't Steve Hart disclose this (without expecting one to research it) on the label? Until yesterday, I had no idea he did TWO diff types of authentication, and I have bought and consigned stuff with him. He has even been to my house.

It would be easy to disclose and differentiate the two, and even put a disclaimer of sorts on the "non-guar" aspect of it.

The whole thing smells and the big picture is in this industry, virtually nobody can be trusted. Hard to believe there are scumbags who would cherry-pick cards, replace them sloppily, then somehow, at some point, somebody (REA?) would authenticate in a BBCX wrapper.

[Hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by 55koufax

Yes, in the past 24 hours I have come to learn this.....that said, why doesn't Steve Hart disclose this (without expecting one to research it) on the label? Until yesterday, I had no idea he did TWO diff types of authentication, and I have bought and consigned stuff with him. He has even been to my house.



It would be easy to disclose and differentiate the two, and even put a disclaimer of sorts on the "non-guar" aspect of it.



The whole thing smells and the big picture is in this industry, virtually nobody can be trusted. Hard to believe there are scumbags who would cherry-pick cards, replace them sloppily, then somehow, at some point, somebody (REA?) would authenticate in a BBCX wrapper.

I knew a dealer who would search 1987 Donruss for Greg Swindell rookies..so if it can be searched it likely was. Probably a cynical view but at today's prices I just don't have the confidence as a buyer.

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[55koufax]

Brian at REA got back to me last pm, with a full apology, and sent a call tag - 100% refunded - nothing in question. He did say they arrived BBCX wrapped from consignor.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by 55koufax

Brian at REA got back to me last pm, with a full apology, and sent a call tag - 100% refunded - nothing in question. He did say they arrived BBCX wrapped from consignor.

Edit: read your early posts wrong and incorrectly lambasted you. Sorry about that.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Next time, do better research, IMO. You got much more than you should have expected. If you didn't realize a BBCE wrapped box could be a Frankenstein box of loose packs assembled, then you should learn more before purchasing and opening them.
REA did more than enough for you, and IMO, probably set a bad precedent. But hey, that's what whining on message boards gets you nowadays.

Except these were sets, not wax boxes.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Except these were sets, not wax boxes.

Ah, didn't see that. I am not sure how Steve certifies sets as unopened without them coming from a sealed case. Cards are rarely in order. My apologies to the OP.

[Directly]

Around a month or so ago a collector I have known for years called me wanting to sell his 3 or 4 boxes 89 score FB and 17 or so factory sets. He has owned the product since 1989. I thought his asking price was high, but after reading this discussion and again revisiting some recent sales, comparing last month prices, this product has really escalated in price ! (the factory sets I bought in 1989 were shrink wrapped ??)

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by 55koufax

Brian at REA got back to me last pm, with a full apology, and sent a call tag - 100% refunded - nothing in question. He did say they arrived BBCX wrapped from consignor.

That's good on them. More than likely the buyer thought it was legit, and BBCX definitely thought it was good.

[ALBB]

Oh yea, stuff from the early -mid 80s... I recall guys figuring out the sequence,
I remember in a card shop with guy saying..about 85 T...if you see Joe. xxx . in the pack..the next card is Eric Davis rookie...and it was

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Hxcmilkshake

I knew a dealer who would search 1987 Donruss for Greg Swindell rookies..so if it can be searched it likely was. Probably a cynical view but at today's prices I just don't have the confidence as a buyer.

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I remember back in the mid to late 80's doing card shows in CT, you would have won the lottery if you could find a 1984 Topps Rack pack at a dealers table that still had a Don Mattingly rookie in it.

They were so easily searched and the collations cracked, unless you saw it come straight out of a sealed case, somebody likely had already snagged all the packs with Mattingly in it.

There was one particularly unethical dealer who had cases and cases of 1984 Topps wax and rack packs, but you could spend a week opening packs from him, and you'd never pull a Mattingly or Strawberry from one of his boxes.

[GrayGhost]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I remember back in the mid to late 80's doing card shows in CT, you would have won the lottery if you could find a 1984 Topps Rack pack at a dealers table that still had a Don Mattingly rookie in it.

They were so easily searched and the collations cracked, unless you saw it come straight out of a sealed case, somebody likely had already snagged all the packs with Mattingly in it.

There was one particularly unethical dealer who had cases and cases of 1984 Topps wax and rack packs, but you could spend a week opening packs from him, and you'd never pull a Mattingly or Strawberry from one of his boxes.

Louie the crook. He was as bad with 85 topps if you remember

[Bcwcardz]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I remember back in the mid to late 80's doing card shows in CT, you would have won the lottery if you could find a 1984 Topps Rack pack at a dealers table that still had a Don Mattingly rookie in it.

They were so easily searched and the collations cracked, unless you saw it come straight out of a sealed case, somebody likely had already snagged all the packs with Mattingly in it.

There was one particularly unethical dealer who had cases and cases of 1984 Topps wax and rack packs, but you could spend a week opening packs from him, and you'd never pull a Mattingly or Strawberry from one of his boxes.

I believe it because I bought some 84 racks in the late 90s. I bought 6. Guess what? 3 Mattinglys and 2 Straws. It wasn’t a coincidence, whoever sold those to the guy I got them from probably knew.


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[dani0100]

It seems that there are still some things that are misunderstood about BBCE. Here's what I know from my experience in collecting 80's unopened material:

1) For items like factory sets or vending boxes, BBCE will not wrap items unless they are FASC and come directly from a sealed outer case that BBCE examines, determines to be unopened, and then opens. It's not clear to me from the thread here whether the OP is saying he got a factory set that was wrapped but not marked FASC, but such a thing should not exist and I think BBCE would buy such a thing back.

2) In the case that a FASC wrapped box turns out to be bad, it is possible that BBCE mistakenly believed that a case it opened was sealed. Crazier things have happened, but I believe this is a fairly rare occurrence since most cases are pretty easy to tell if they've been opened, tampered with, and resealed. Again, I think if this happened and there were video evidence of it, BBCE would happily refund.

It doesn't seem like there are many unopened wax collectors in here since mostly that's a hobby that pertains to the late 70s and 80s, but I can tell you that among serious collectors of this stuff, Steve Hart and BBCE have a very sterling reputation, and for good reason. Steve is extremely responsive in communicating, always willing to go above and beyond, and generally does work that's about 100% more reliable than most "professional" authenticators in the hobby.

[Pack The Ripper]

Originally Posted by dani0100

It seems that there are still some things that are misunderstood about BBCE. Here's what I know from my experience in collecting 80's unopened material:

1) For items like factory sets or vending boxes, BBCE will not wrap items unless they are FASC and come directly from a sealed outer case that BBCE examines, determines to be unopened, and then opens. It's not clear to me from the thread here whether the OP is saying he got a factory set that was wrapped but not marked FASC, but such a thing should not exist and I think BBCE would buy such a thing back.

2) In the case that a FASC wrapped box turns out to be bad, it is possible that BBCE mistakenly believed that a case it opened was sealed. Crazier things have happened, but I believe this is a fairly rare occurrence since most cases are pretty easy to tell if they've been opened, tampered with, and resealed. Again, I think if this happened and there were video evidence of it, BBCE would happily refund.

It doesn't seem like there are many unopened wax collectors in here since mostly that's a hobby that pertains to the late 70s and 80s, but I can tell you that among serious collectors of this stuff, Steve Hart and BBCE have a very sterling reputation, and for good reason. Steve is extremely responsive in communicating, always willing to go above and beyond, and generally does work that's about 100% more reliable than most "professional" authenticators in the hobby.

Hey fellow unopened wax collector! That makes two of us.

Seriously though, I've been collecting unopened wax for a long time and BBCE wrap is a must for anything of real value. Sports and non-sports alike, I won't touch anything over 100 bucks without authentication. Almost all of my collection is BBCE wrapped.