SGC Grading Turnarounds

[LACardsGuy]

Once I thought it was a fluke, but twice...? Two day turnaround on standard submission. Do they have an army of robots?

[bobbyw8469]

They found a price point that works for them.

[gonefishin]

Same here, 5 days total from when I mailed them USPS until I had them back in hand graded. Amazing!

[Natswin2019]

Sent a submission through Nashcards and had them back in about a week. Super fast and impressed so I just sent off another sub

[rdwyer]

Originally Posted by Natswin2019

Sent a submission through Nashcards and had them back in about a week. Super fast and impressed so I just sent off another sub

Same here. But their grading I feel is super harsh.

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

They found a price point that works for them.

Bobby, in my humble opinion, this quick turnaround shows that SGC’s prices are too high. SGC having a 2-day turnaround indicates the demand for its grading services is too low. In theory, lowering the price would increase its grading demand and SGC would have a little inventory to work through.

At some point, PSA will have the backlog completed and it’s east coast facility fulling up and running. SGC will is probably waiting for that moment to drop its price. I think it will not have a choice. I like SGC, but, at least for me, $30.00 a card is too high.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

Same here. But their grading I feel is super harsh.

I prefer SGC but their current graders pass out "A's" like Chiclets on a border-town street. They need a primer that pre-war cards were not always cut to exact specifications at the factory.

[wazoo]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

Bobby, in my humble opinion, this quick turnaround shows that SGC’s prices are too high. SGC having a 2-day turnaround indicates the demand for its grading services is too low. In theory, lowering the price would increase its grading demand and SGC would have a little inventory to work through.

At some point, PSA will have the backlog completed and it’s east coast facility fulling up and running. SGC will is probably waiting for that moment to drop its price. I think it will not have a choice. I like SGC, but, at least for me, $30.00 a card is too high.

That’s why their are great sub groups on Facebook that can get it for $24/card. But I agree with your logic here.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Accurate and fair, not overly harsh, grading would seem FAR more important than turnaround time as long as that time is within reason. I frankly don't understand the obsession with turnaround time as evidenced by all the duplicative threads on the same topic, are people THAT impatient/in need of instant gratification? To me if a card comes back super fast graded one or two grades low, that's a disaster, not something to celebrate.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Accurate and fair, not overly harsh, grading would seem FAR more important than turnaround time as long as that time is within reason. I frankly don't understand the obsession with turnaround time as evidenced by all the duplicative threads on the same topic, are people THAT impatient?

Yes
.

[Orioles1954]

Harsher grading is not better grading.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Harsher grading is not better grading.

Especially if your cards already, for the most part, sell at a discount.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Accurate and fair, not overly harsh, grading would seem FAR more important than turnaround time as long as that time is within reason. I frankly don't understand the obsession with turnaround time as evidenced by all the duplicative threads on the same topic, are people THAT impatient/in need of instant gratification? To me if a card comes back super fast graded one or two grades low, that's a disaster, not something to celebrate.

Call me impatient, but I find the lack of clear expectations about PSA turnaround times unacceptable. Don't they still have submissions from early 2021 that they haven't finished grading?

[Lorewalker]

As discussed routinely here, both PSA and SGC are just killing submissions. If asked they will tell you nothing has changed. It has and it is very obvious. Only thing that SGC offers over PSA at this point is fast turnaround times and much cheaper cost per card. Neither of which are enticing to me. Selling an under graded SGC card for a strong price is virtually impossible.

And there is an obsession in our hobby with fast turnaround times. It is very overrated. Get the job done right in a reasonable amount of time for a reasonable fee. Getting all giddy over your cards coming back in 5 days is nothing I can relate to.

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

are people THAT impatient/in need of instant gratification?

Answering this question requires knowing the submitter’s intent. A business/flipper may require a quick turnaround time to maintain cash flow to pay overhead. Cards do not make money sitting in a warehouse at PSA for over a year. However, a PC submitter has the luxury of waiting.

[ClementeFanOh]

PeterSpaeth- While we are on the subject of "not understanding" things, I
think you're falling into your own category. I am not "obsessed" with card
grading turnarounds, I think appropriate turnaround is an expectation of
people we pay in advance (!), to know their stuff. There appear to be 2
major camps at play in these grading chats. The first is people who expect
their graders to get the job done before the collector dies of old age. The
others, tacitly at least, put up with PSAs lag times and unpredictable grading
because of hammer values. The complicating factor currently in play is both
PSA/SGC seem to regard vintage as the whipping boy of the card world,
and it affects consumers of both products. There's no "obsession", at least
not with me- my family and job consume the vast majority of my time and
this is an avocation. We are on a card forum after all, so it stands to reason
that controversial or persistently unresolved topics will reoccur. This is the
place for those chats, and people are free to ignore them without
commenting (lest they become obsessed with commenting about the
perceived obsession). Trent King

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Call me impatient, but I find the lack of clear expectations about PSA turnaround times unacceptable. Don't they still have submissions from early 2021 that they haven't finished grading?

I qualified my statement by saying "within reason." 1.5 years (and a friend of mine and I are still waiting on a sub from early 2021) is not within reason.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Trent as I am sure you deduced, the main point of my post, by which I stand, is that IMO fair grading is much more important than turnaround times, within reason. Do you disagree?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I qualified my statement by saying "within reason." 1.5 years (and a friend of mine and I are still waiting on a sub from early 2021) is not within reason.

I agree with that assessment. My point is that, when customers have no idea about turnaround time, there's no way to know whether or not it will be "within reason". Whether SGC's turnaround is 5 days or 5 months, at least it seems like I can trust knowing ahead of time that that's what it will be, unlike PSA.

[ClementeFanOh]

Peter- Well, I believe fair grading is more important, but I feel confident
saying many posters don't agree with your sentiment. Between PSA and
SGC, strictly regarding "fairness" of grading, it's my opinion that SGC is
far more consistent than PSA ever has been. Does that make SGC more
fair? I'd say yes; however, even they have fallen into this trap of seeing
who can be harshest/finest in their grading, like it's a badge of honor in
some game no one else wants to play. Their relative speed is a bonus.

I'll stand by my comments about "obsession", though. Sports cards
enthusiasts and sports fans (people who can talk the sport, not just the
card) tend to be passionate folks. Within the small context of this hobby,
the wait times and "moving the goalpost" grading standards are issues
that continue to frustrate many collectors; however, it's not even close to
an obsession. It's a first world problem that sure beats talking about work
life, but I'm not on the verge of becoming Private Pyle from "Full Metal
Jacket" over it. Trent King

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think you're reacting too strongly to "obsession" which was just dramatic phrasing but if it makes you feel better I'll modify the point to say I don't understand people's emphasis on turnaround times.

[hockeyhockey]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Only thing that SGC offers over PSA at this point is fast turnaround times and much cheaper cost per card. Neither of which are enticing to me. Selling an under graded SGC card for a strong price is virtually impossible.
.

and that's not even the case anymore. PSA value is $30. i used SGC a few times and have nothing bad to say about their customer service, but if i'm choosing between the 2 with no cost difference and no 16 month turnaround, it's an easy choice with PSA. at least for me.

[ClementeFanOh]

Peter- and I think you're behaving as doggedly as the people you've
criticized for being "overly concerned" with turnaround times, or for
"overemphasizing" those times. After all, you are most certainly a
participant in the very event you are condemning. You are complaining
about the verbal tennis match while being a continuing part of it. And I'll still
say that getting cards back in a timely manner is a benefit, and openly
question those who can't (or won't, more probably) admit it.

Trent King

[Peter_Spaeth]

My point which seems lost on you in all your verbal sparring is that fast turnaround doesn't do one much good or is overrated if the cards are undergraded. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play kinda thing. How was your sub, Trent? Well, every card was too low by 1 to 2 grades, but it came back in two weeks!!!! I somehow doubt that result would thrill you.

[RCFire82]

Crazy turnaround times, exorbitant fees, inconsistencies and "favors" for certian submitters. All this makes me appreciate not being on the business side of the hobby. My only concern with grading is not damaging the card when cracking the case.

Side note. Peter and Trent...have enjoyed following some of your recent debates. Both pationate about your respective position on subjects.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by hockeyhockey

and that's not even the case anymore. PSA value is $30. i used SGC a few times and have nothing bad to say about their customer service, but if i'm choosing between the 2 with no cost difference and no 16 month turnaround, it's an easy choice with PSA. at least for me.

True that PSA has a $30 service level but it does not allow for cards that are valued up to $1,500 like SGC permits. You have to pay $100 at PSA for cards valued at $1,500 and they will take 30 business days.

[ClementeFanOh]

PeterSpaeth- yesterday I got 2 cool cards in the mail, bought a third, and
traded for 2 more. THAT is the fun part of the hobby, and I'll continue it
today. So, my reply here will be succinct...

I have consistently held that quick turnaround times (still 3+ weeks) are
a boon to the seller/hobbyist, and I'm stunned it gets so much backlash. The
devil I'm choosing currently includes inexplicably harsh grades on vintage.
I find it odd that those collectors who pay (outrageously in many cases) for
a service, are so quick to forgive molasses-like return of cards by PSA.
Conversely, there are people who think I'm in the wrong. The point? The topic
has legs, which is why people keep coming back to it! We are all in search of
a magic grader who grades every card fairly, gets them back while we are
still alive, and doesn't extort us in the meantime. Until that time, there WILL
be debate. Trent King

[hockeyhockey]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

True that PSA has a $30 service level but it does not allow for cards that are valued up to $1,500 like SGC permits. You have to pay $100 at PSA for cards valued at $1,500 and they will take 30 business days.

ahh yes, i guess i never had to worry about that since my collection isn't that high end. maybe one day i'll find that joe jackson

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Call me impatient, but I find the lack of clear expectations about PSA turnaround times unacceptable. Don't they still have submissions from early 2021 that they haven't finished grading?

Correct....we sent one in around Fed/March of 2021 that didn't get officially entered until May.....still outstanding......outstanding as in, not completed.

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

PeterSpaeth- yesterday I got 2 cool cards in the mail, bought a third, and
traded for 2 more. THAT is the fun part of the hobby, and I'll continue it
today. So, my reply here will be succinct...

I have consistently held that quick turnaround times (still 3+ weeks) are
a boon to the seller/hobbyist, and I'm stunned it gets so much backlash. The
devil I'm choosing currently includes inexplicably harsh grades on vintage.
I find it odd that those collectors who pay (outrageously in many cases) for
a service, are so quick to forgive molasses-like return of cards by PSA.
Conversely, there are people who think I'm in the wrong. The point? The topic
has legs, which is why people keep coming back to it! We are all in search of
a magic grader who grades every card fairly, gets them back while we are
still alive, and doesn't extort us in the meantime. Until that time, there WILL
be debate. Trent King

Sometimes it seems like Peter likes to argue just to argue. I bet he’d argue with a stump.

[Yoda]

What I wonder is what with the huge number of new graders hired by the TPG's, how are they trained, how are the work flows organized and perhaps how are remunerated? Consistency is the benchmark of grading and there seems to be a paradigm shift towards much tougher grading by SGC. If so, I believe their whole business model becomes flawed.
And I agree with Peter, I would rather be patient to receive my T206 Brown, knowing it has been properly graded and receives a fair 4 rather than a 2.5 with an expeditious return.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Yoda

What I wonder is what with the huge number of new graders hired by the TPG's, how are they trained, how are the work flows organized and perhaps how are remunerated? Consistency is the benchmark of grading and there seems to be a paradigm shift towards much tougher grading by SGC. If so, I believe their whole business model becomes flawed.
And I agree with Peter, I would rather be patient to receive my T206 Brown, knowing it has been properly graded and receives a fair 4 rather than a 2.5 with an expeditious return.

The harsh grading is not just at SGC but PSA as well. PSA has 2 to 3 times as many graders as SGC has. Tricky to get everyone up to speed and be on the same exact page with regards to grading. SGC has always been the more reliable and consistent grader between the two. And they still are.

No clue what their training is but it is easy to conclude that the harsh assessments coming out of both companies is indicative of a management decision to error on the side of conservatism. Good for business too since there is a much better chance a 7 in a 5 holder is coming back for another look as opposed to a 5 in a 7 holder.

Whatever the case is both are denying it and doing absolutely nothing to address it internally. Why should they? Most are submitting anyway knowing the outcome.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The good news about the harsh grading is, if you're mostly a buyer, there are some great undergraded cards out there. 6 is the new 7 in many cases or even the new 8.

[Prof]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I prefer SGC but their current graders pass out "A's" like Chiclets on a border-town street. They need a primer that pre-war cards were not always cut to exact specifications at the factory.

I thought SGC was a little more relaxed about A's vs numbers. I've heard of at least a few people getting A's from PSA because cards had been in screwdowns. Then, they'd submit to SGC and get number grades.



I've never submitted before, but will probably send a handful soon, with the intent to resell.

I know PSA commands a slight premium, but on the whole, between PSA and SGC, which do you all think is the most fair?

[cammb]

Originally Posted by Yoda

What I wonder is what with the huge number of new graders hired by the TPG's, how are they trained, how are the work flows organized and perhaps how are remunerated? Consistency is the benchmark of grading and there seems to be a paradigm shift towards much tougher grading by SGC. If so, I believe their whole business model becomes flawed.
And I agree with Peter, I would rather be patient to receive my T206 Brown, knowing it has been properly graded and receives a fair 4 rather than a 2.5 with an expeditious return.

You mean if you wait longer you will get the grade you want?

[Yoda]

Not at all, the grader will grade the card as he sees it or has been instructed to see it. My point was I am willing to wait for my card within reason rather than have my expensive pre-war item rushed through the grading cycle to meet management expectations about turnaround times.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Not at all, the grader will grade the card as he sees it or has been instructed to see it. My point was I am willing to wait for my card within reason rather than have my expensive pre-war item rushed through the grading cycle to meet management expectations about turnaround times.

You are assuming that the card graded in two days is rushed and not the proper grade where as the card graded in two weeks was properly graded because the grader had plenty of time to render his opinion. I would rather have my cards back sooner than later

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't think there is a relationship necessarily between turnaround time and harshness of grading. I think the recent harshness of grading is an independent phenomenon.

[GasHouseGang]

Many of the people that collect/speculate on modern cards would like their graded cards back quickly before the market changes. This isn't necessarily the case with vintage where most of the Net54 collectors live.
I saw a YouTube video with a dealer at the recent Burbank show, and he and a customer were laughing and saying PSA can keep the cards they submitted over a year ago. The values for those players had fallen so much and the market had moved on. They knew the market had completely changed in the year they had been waiting for their cards to come back from grading.

[LACardsGuy]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

Same here. But their grading I feel is super harsh.

Absolutely. Always has been. Maybe it's my imagination, but I have always thought they come in same or lower than PSA.

[Natswin2019]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

Same here. But their grading I feel is super harsh.

I really havent felt hard done by sgc yet. Maybe on a few cards I felt like should have been like .5 or 1 grade higher but nothing super terrible really. Im not super well versed in the standards but have a general idea of what each card should get so im not too terribly disapointed. Granted I submit cards that I want protected for my pc so im not really in it for the money. Maybe that's why im never disappointed.

I've also never submitted to PSA but to reflect on what people have said, it's mostly cause the price and turn around time. I paid good money for my cards, why would I want them stuck in some warehouse for 4 months to a year and have no idea when I would get them back when I could pay a single fee and have them back in under a month. I do think if I had a real banger of a modern card I'd probably pay the fees and send to PSA anyway.

Patrick Kearney

[babraham]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

True that PSA has a $30 service level but it does not allow for cards that are valued up to $1,500 like SGC permits. You have to pay $100 at PSA for cards valued at $1,500 and they will take 30 business days.

My last $100 "regular" submission from PSA earlier this month had this timeline:

Fri 8/12: dropped off at USPS
Mon 8/15: arrived at PSA
Tues 8/16: entered at PSA
Tues 8/23: shipped from PSA
Thurs 8/25: delivered to my house

I was thrilled with the turnaround time (much quicker than I expected), and the card got the grade that I was anticipating.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by babraham

My last $100 "regular" submission from PSA earlier this month had this timeline:

Fri 8/12: dropped off at USPS
Mon 8/15: arrived at PSA
Tues 8/16: entered at PSA
Tues 8/23: shipped from PSA
Thurs 8/25: delivered to my house

I was thrilled with the turnaround time (much quicker than I expected), and the card got the grade that I was anticipating.

But you had to pay $100 per card. Meanwhile, $10 per card orders sit languishing for a year and a half.

[babraham]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

But you had to pay $100 per card. Meanwhile, $10 per card orders sit languishing for a year and a half.

It was only one card.
It seems like all of their levels are getting quicker leadtimes...hopefully they can get thru their backlog of older/cheaper submissions and start offering lowered pricing tiers again.

[raulus]

PSA is quoting these turnaround times:

SERVICE LEVEL ESTIMATED TURNAROUND TIME*
(in calendar days)

Premium + 3 Days
Walk-Through 3 Days
Super Express 7 Days
Express 14 Days
Regular 15-30 Days
Economy 45-90 Days
Value** 90-120 Days
Reholder 90 Days

My experience is that these are a little bit aspirational. At the same time, there's an element of randomness. I have an economy submission for 5 items that they entered on 5/4 that is very close to being done (2nd QC check), so it's at about 120 days, which isn't toooooo far over their estimate. And I have a value submission for 47 items entered on 6/28 that is also at 2nd QC check, which is just over 60 days, which is obviously well under their estimate. At the same time, the economy submission is for a vintage regional issue with very low pop counts, and the value submission is for mainline cards from the junk wax era. So perhaps that's part of the magic.

In some ways, it seems like they must have a great big pile that any given grader is working off of, and when they finish working on one submission, then they close their eyes and randomly grab one off of the pile. Maybe the piles are sorted based on submission level so that the higher submission levels have a higher probability of getting picked. If your submission gets picked up today by a grader when they're working through the pile, then you get lucky. And if it doesn't get picked up, then it might languish for weeks or months until they get to it.

Update:

Since writing this post this morning, my economy submission for 5 items that was entered into the system on 5/4 has been completed. So almost exactly 120 days by my count. And I'm even reasonably happy with my grades!

[jchcollins]

I am encouraged by the apparent consistency in SGC's recent turn times, and for the first time in 18 months, dropped off a small submission of 2 cards at the post office yesterday evening.

I walked away from them with my hands thrown up last March, not over turn times or grading harshness, but due to faulty inserts that had tiny plastic shards sticking out at random places right up against the edge of my cards. I had always said I would give SGC a second chance, but given how upset I was at the time it was going to have to be awhile. I did notice in recent months that at least one thing I had complained about - the corner cutouts on the black inserts - have been modified slightly to blunt the edge that formerly was right down against the card. No clue if my angry feedback in early 2021 played a role in that, but it seemed to me as if they were at least willing to listen to suggestions.

I am hopeful that the "harsh grading" trend doesn't hit me too hard, but felt I owed it to them to try again. I had been a big SGC fan in the past who got soured over the initial mismanagement of their backlog in the early pandemic, and then over my own situation. So we will see. Only one card is raw grading anyway, and it's fairly well centered (an aspect of grading that the ostensibly new graders during the pandemic seemed to have a hard time with...) The other is a reholder.

[jchcollins]

Quick update on my submission. Very pleased. Below is the timeline:

*Thursday, 9/1 - Submission entered / cards mailed priority.
*Tuesday, 9/6 - Cards officially received and logged by SGC. They had actually arrived Saturday, but then Monday was a holiday.
*Wednesday, 9/7 - Cards graded and status updated on the website.
*Thursday, 9/8 - Cards shipped, grades and images pop on the website.
*Saturday, 9/10 - Cards delivered to me via priority mail.

9 days total door to door, on an estimate of 20-25 business days. Not too shabby.

Again this was a very small order, only 2 cards - and one was a reholder - so that left me with only one card on which to judge current grading toughness. I had submitted this '59 Mantle, and was expecting it to get a 5 or a 5.5. It got a 5.5:



Can't complain. My budget is such that I'm just never going to spend a ton on grading, and I will always have more raw cards that would make good grading candidates - but in the end I'm not going to do it for all of them. I will slowly submit to SGC again, as long as their service remains this constant - for a few more of my cards I'd like to get in their holders.

[jimmer77]

Talk about fast...I submitted a 4 card submission last week. Mailed from Wisconsin on Monday 9/12, received at SGC on 9/15, post grading process on 9/16 and received notification that order had shipped today 9/19...unbelievable.

[Frank A]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Accurate and fair, not overly harsh, grading would seem FAR more important than turnaround time as long as that time is within reason. I frankly don't understand the obsession with turnaround time as evidenced by all the duplicative threads on the same topic, are people THAT impatient/in need of instant gratification? To me if a card comes back super fast graded one or two grades low, that's a disaster, not something to celebrate.

Who the hell want's to wait a year before they get their cards back. You could be dead by then. Thats not impatient, that's common sense

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Frank A

Who the hell want's to wait a year before they get their cards back. You could be dead by then. Thats not impatient, that's common sense

Wait times at PSA on recent subs are not going to be anywhere near a year but I get your point. I think if I am submitting for resale I will remain patient. PSA tends to bring more money and until recently they were grading less harshly.

For me neither SGC nor PSA is an option at this present time.