Why aren’t slabs more resistant to scratching/cracking/breaking?

[parkplace33]

The title says it all. Grading companies have improved visuals, apps, etc, but the slab material hasn’t improved. I have seen stories of slabs being damaged over the years, while I cracked a slab once by accidentally dropping it on a table

The only exception is Beckett. You could survived Armageddon by building a bunker of Beckett slabs

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

...to increase their odds of your wanting to resubmit for more profit because of some scratches that won't buff out? They don't see it as a problem that needs fixing.

[Johnny630]

Do some people use those grading bag sleeves those plastic Mylar bags that go around their slabs to protect them still? I always thought that was a good idea. Some people are just careless with the way they handle their slabs.

[ullmandds]

because that would cost them $$$$$$$...and they only want to make $$$$$.

[bnorth]

That is why we need a slab to protect the slab we are using to protect the slab that is protecting the slab that is protecting the original slab that contains our precious card.

Or you could just order your own higher grade PSA slabs made to exact specifications from one of many suppliers in China.

[Bcwcardz]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Do some people use those grading bag sleeves those plastic Mylar bags that go around their slabs to protect them still? I always thought that was a good idea. Some people are just careless with the way they handle their slabs.

I use them still for the few slabs I do have. I’ve seen some slabs scratched to hell.


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[Fred]

There are sleeves for slabs. Most AHs send the slabs in those sleeves. I used to discard the sleeves but now I keep the slabs in the sleeves but it makes for sloppy storage.

now say this 5x quickly - slabbers sleeving slabs sloppily

[steve B]

There are only a few materials that are clear, inexpensive, easily formed, and light.

All of them are somewhat easily scratched.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by steve B

There are only a few materials that are clear, inexpensive, easily formed, and light.

All of them are somewhat easily scratched.

Yup. So use the sleeves, there are some great ones out there. Or if you buy a slab that has scratches, most can be greatly improved with Novus 2.

[Chuck9788]

I have all my graded cards in sleeves. And I'm going to tell you the best sleeve company available (I have no relationship with them) is called "Superior Fit Innovations", based out of British Columbia. Check out their website in the link, I can firmly attest that they are great!

"Superior Fit Innovations"
https://www.superiorfitsleeves.com

[dealme]

I feel like this same argument could be made for modern vehicle headlights.


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[bnorth]

Originally Posted by dealme

I feel like this same argument could be made for modern vehicle headlights.


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LOL, and why is it almost always just the drivers side headlight?

[GRock]

PSA and SGC use Crystal Polystyrene, it's inexpensive and not very durable.
Beckett uses (or at least used to)Poly Carbonate, more expensive but its super durable in comparison.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Chuck9788

I have all my graded cards in sleeves. And I'm going to tell you the best sleeve company available (I have no relationship with them) is called "Superior Fit Innovations", based out of British Columbia. Check out their website in the link, I can firmly attest that they are great!

"Superior Fit Innovations"
https://www.superiorfitsleeves.com

I have repeatedly had issues with their SGC sleeves being too small. Shellz are better IMO.

[Snowman]

It's pretty easy to remove scratches from a slab using some polish. Although I don't know how the purists would feel about that? Probably a big no-no! Might get your name and pics posted somewhere with the word "FRAUDSTER" plastered next to it!

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Snowman

It's pretty easy to remove scratches from a slab using some polish. Although I don't know how the purists would feel about that? Probably a big no-no! Might get your name and pics posted somewhere with the word "FRAUDSTER" plastered next to it!

What kind of polish do you use? I used some white toothpaste that had baking soda in it and rubbed it on with a microfiber cloth and worked pretty well.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Snowman

It's pretty easy to remove scratches from a slab using some polish. Although I don't know how the purists would feel about that? Probably a big no-no! Might get your name and pics posted somewhere with the word "FRAUDSTER" plastered next to it!

The only acceptable method is soaking them in virgin spring water from Icelandic glaciers.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

The only acceptable method is soaking them in virgin spring water from Icelandic glaciers.

I bought a 16ox bottle of that for $8.99 off the internet. When it arrived I looked at the ingredient list. It said Source: Houston TX municipal water.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

What kind of polish do you use? I used some white toothpaste that had baking soda in it and rubbed it on with a microfiber cloth and worked pretty well.

Not sure. I think maybe Mcguire's? It's for my car. Bought it at an auto parts store. Any polish should work though. If it says it's for headlights, that's probably ideal?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Not sure. I think maybe Mcguire's? It's for my car. Bought it at an auto parts store. Any polish should work though. If it says it's for headlights, that's probably ideal?

Novus Plastic Polish No. 2 works well in my experience. PSA generally easier to clean up than SGC.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by GRock

PSA and SGC use Crystal Polystyrene, it's inexpensive and not very durable.
Beckett uses (or at least used to)Poly Carbonate, more expensive but its super durable in comparison.

I would love to know how you found that out?
I've made some brief attempts at it, but figured it would be closely held as a trade secret so I didn't put much effort into it.

[bnorth]

Kinda off topic but how close are we to being able to easily 3D print our own PSA slabs at home? I know nothing about 3D printing so curious.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yup. So use the sleeves, there are some great ones out there. Or if you buy a slab that has scratches, most can be greatly improved with Novus 2.

Yep - Have used Novus for several years on every slabbed card I buy - Once done with the NOVUS - then into a new Slab Sleeve

If the slab is simply scratched (or needs cleaning) and isn't a complete disaster the Novus 3 Step process will improve the aesthetics considerably.

https://novuspolish.com/products/2-o...tic-polish-kit

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Kinda off topic but how close are we to being able to easily 3D print our own PSA slabs at home? I know nothing about 3D printing so curious.

Assuming you'd want to be able to see through it, that's not happening

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Assuming you'd want to be able to see through it, that's not happening

LOL, they can 3D print camera lenses.

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by bnorth

LOL, they can 3D print camera lenses.

I thought you were kidding, but apparently not: https://formlabs.com/blog/creating-c...eolithography/

[steve B]

Beat me to it.

It's not simple, and 3d printing at the hobby/homeowner level isn't fast, but it does do some amazing things.

[jchcollins]

This stuff is fantastic for cleaning light scratches and sometimes worse out of slabs:



As to the question on the whole, I don't think it's so much that the graders don't use durable materials, it's just that people are careless as hell with their slabs. Easily one of my hobby pet peeves, when I buy something that looks good in the pic on eBay, but then a week later the slab arrives looking like someone used it as a cutting board in their kitchen. Invest in some Superior Fit sleeves, people.


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[55koufax]

And this statement is partially correct

PSA and SGC use Crystal Polystyrene, it's inexpensive and not very durable.
Beckett uses (or at least used to)Poly Carbonate, more expensive but its super durable in comparison.

The solution to the original poster's question on how to improve a slab's durability, etc., would be to utilize polycarbonate but with a scratch resistant coating. This is truly an expensive solution, but really the only solution in the manufacturing process to create the most durable clear slab.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Novus Plastic Polish No. 2 works well in my experience. PSA generally easier to clean up than SGC.

Originally Posted by jchcollins

This stuff is fantastic for cleaning light scratches and sometimes worse out of slabs:



As to the question on the whole, I don't think it's so much that the graders don't use durable materials, it's just that people are careless as hell with their slabs. Easily one of my hobby pet peeves, when I buy something that looks good in the pic on eBay, but then a week later the slab arrives looking like someone used it as a cutting board in their kitchen. Invest in some Superior Fit sleeves, people.

Are you guys talking about applying chemicals to a slab? Is that altering the slab? Isn't that a bad thing? That's a chemical being applied to the plastic that houses the card - NOOOOOO!!!!

Hey, I'm just kidding!!!

[Leon]

This is what I use.

As for why the plastics aren't more scratch-proof? The answer to these type questions is usually "money".

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

Yep - Have used Novus for several years on every slabbed card I buy - Once done with the NOVUS - then into a new Slab Sleeve

If the slab is simply scratched (or needs cleaning) and isn't a complete disaster the Novus 3 Step process will improve the aesthetics considerably.

https://novuspolish.com/products/2-o...tic-polish-kit

[NonSportDaniel]

Originally Posted by steve B

I would love to know how you found that out?
I've made some brief attempts at it, but figured it would be closely held as a trade secret so I didn't put much effort into it.

About two minutes with an FTIR and you would know. Easy peasy.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by NonSportDaniel

About two minutes with an FTIR and you would know. Easy peasy.

That's true.

So you have access to an FTIR machine? Lots of questions out there that could be answered.
The stamp guys are using xrf and sometimes one other, But the sample area isn't usually big enough to get info without having to wreck an already damaged stamp as a reference (Like to have the data for the paper so it can be backed out of the overall stamp leaving the spectrum for the ink.)

[Bliggity]

1. Crack card out of slab.
2. Throw away slab.
3. No more scratches on slab.
4. Enjoy card.

That's my method, though I acknowledge it's not for everyone.

Otherwise, I agree Meguiars is good on slabs, I also use that for refinishing guitars.

[NonSportDaniel]

Originally Posted by steve B

That's true.

So you have access to an FTIR machine? Lots of questions out there that could be answered.
The stamp guys are using xrf and sometimes one other, But the sample area isn't usually big enough to get info without having to wreck an already damaged stamp as a reference (Like to have the data for the paper so it can be backed out of the overall stamp leaving the spectrum for the ink.)

I think that what I might try for the stamp concern is a scanning electron microscope with an EDAX attached. Unless the stamp was oversized you shouldn't have to damage it. Reference would be important for that application as I don't think I could put the composition together from an elemental scan as I don't know enough about the stamp paper composition/ glue backing/ ink top coats in that industry. You might need a combination of tools. The Smith's Detection ATR FTIRs are great, but you would probably crush a portion of the stamp.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by NonSportDaniel

I think that what I might try for the stamp concern is a scanning electron microscope with an EDAX attached. Unless the stamp was oversized you shouldn't have to damage it. Reference would be important for that application as I don't think I could put the composition together from an elemental scan as I don't know enough about the stamp paper composition/ glue backing/ ink top coats in that industry. You might need a combination of tools. The Smith's Detection ATR FTIRs are great, but you would probably crush a portion of the stamp.

The work that's being done is impressive so far.

Like
"the plates wore out too fast because the pigment was rust"
Xref says..... no iron present. And by the way brown, red brown and dark brown are chemically identical.....


I wouldn't mind seeing that sort of thing applied to maybe brown/black Lenox, or Blue Old mill.

I can make some guesses about the paper composition, but things were weird back around 1910. Lots of technology changes both in papers and inks.

[jjbond]

I don't care that they scratch or break.
I just want them to be made with a UV blocker....

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by jjbond

I don't care that they scratch or break.
I just want them to be made with a UV blocker....

Agreed. To me this is just the graders being cheap. Also given the grade of plastic they use, I would imagine they haven't found a great way to put the UV coating on and keep it looking decent.

Many of the magnetic cases (UltraPro, ProMold) do have UV protection and that is good, but you can always see at least a light film on the cases and junk sometimes from that if you hold them in a certain light. Again my guess is that PSA, et al. haven't found a way yet to make that suit their budget. The plastic that UltraPro uses is slightly thicker and would seem to be of better quality.

[steve B]

Polycarbonate blocks essentially all UV we would be concerned with.
Polystyrene blocks about 98%

So both are effective UV blocking materials.

Even toploaders block some UV, although the older ones are readily damaged by it they do protect the contents.

[jjbond]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Agreed. To me this is just the graders being cheap. Also given the grade of plastic they use, I would imagine they haven't found a great way to put the UV coating on and keep it looking decent.

Many of the magnetic cases (UltraPro, ProMold) do have UV protection and that is good, but you can always see at least a light film on the cases and junk sometimes from that if you hold them in a certain light. Again my guess is that PSA, et al. haven't found a way yet to make that suit their budget. The plastic that UltraPro uses is slightly thicker and would seem to be of better quality.

Besides making it a better product, I always thought it would be a good business investment for the grading company. Back when I collected comics, I marveled that you could have a slabbed NM comic that had since suffered significant fading while in the slab. Slabs, and their labeled grades, are effectively advertisements for the grading company, and a faded card should have a matching grade if we want to trust the grading company.