O/T - Clemens On 60 Minutes

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Posted By: Andrew

I just finished watching the Roger Clemens interview on 60 minutes. Just curious what others thought of it? To me he looks more guilty then ever. The main question that stood out to me was when asked about a lie detector test, he was very quick to say they aren't always that great. Also hes "officially" retired for a 4th? time now. For someone whos been infront of the media of New York, for someone whos been infront of millions for a World Series, for someone who has done interview after interview for papers, magazines and tv, he just looked to fidgity and to nervous to be innocent.

Your thoughts?

Andrew

Edited to spell ClemEns, Lol

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Pitiful. He and his representatives have tin ears. What an awful bit of spin control.

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Posted By: barrysloate

My wife thought he was telling the truth. I thought he was lying. I think he wants to get to the Hall of Fame, and steroid users probably won't. Let's see if McNamee now sues him.

And his name is spelled "Clemens"

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Posted By: CN

As a member of law enforcement for 23 years and who has attended the FBI interogation school as well as others and conducted thousands of interviews and obtained countless confessions it was clear that Clemens was lying. Besides the lie detector segment which was probably the most obvious there were at least 4 other segements in which he was lying.(I was informally taking notes while watching). As an experienced interrogater body language as well as verbal language can tell the interrogater about a persons truthfulness. I watched this interview as a training excercise for my job and took my own prior opinions out and I can tell you that Clemens was lying. CN

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Too many excuses.

IMO if these guys would just come forward and tell the truth they'd be better off in the end. McGwire's taking the 5th in front of Congress ruined him...taking the 5th pretty much means "I'm guilty" so why not just say it and get it out of the way?

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Why would McNamee have told the truth about Pettitte and lied about Clemens? Doesn't make sense.

I didn't bother to watch the 60 Minutes charade.

Pathetic. I used to like Roger.

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Posted By: Brad

His record should be striped, plan and simple!

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

1st, I will say I was never a fan of Clemens. As a Yankee fan I obviously disliked him when he was with the Red Sox. And,
when the Yankees picked him up at the expense of David Wells (a guy who I was a great fan of), it really ticked-me-off.
So, to repeat.....I am no great fan of Clemens.

HOWEVER.......

No. 1.....The Mitchell Report is a SHAM ! Mitchell is a so-called independent investigator who has been ass-
ociated with the Red Sox organization going back to when he was a useless Senator. How many Red Sox
player's were on his Report ? ?

No. 2.....60 Minutes is not an objective News outfit. I don't trust them to report what is true. And, yes, Lie
Detector's are not 100% accurate and that was an agenda-driven question by that old "prune face" Wallace.

No 3.....Clemens' (and also Pettitte's) trainer is trying to save his ass from prison, so he is telling them any-
thing to plea bargain. It turned out that Pettitte's use was not steroids. I choose to believe Clemens' side
of this story.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Clemens was lying when he said he has been a workout machine his entire career also....I still remember him coming to Spring Training in his final season with the Red Sox and watching him try to climb over a chain link fence...he looked like a fat tub of goo ($1 to David Letterman).

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Posted By: Joe D.

I have three children....
I sure would like you to teach me some of those interrogation skills!

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Ted you could have shortened your response to "Democrats and CBS News are all liars" and saved a lot of typing.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

CN -- I agree. I've cross examined enough people to know quickly who is lying. This one was not even close.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Why must you view everything thru "politically tinted" glasses ?

Is Clemens a Republican....so, I choose to believe him ?

Is Wallace a Democrat.....so, I think he has an agenda ?


Hey guy, the first President I voted for was JFK. I also voted for LBJ and Carter....and Harry Truman is one of my favorites.
And, a few Repubs. in between.

I am neither a Repub. or a Democ.....but, a person who tends to be Conservative and believes in Traditional values.

TED Z

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Ted,

On your points #1 and #2, I am no fan of George Mitchell and don't have blinders on when it comes to 60 Minutes reporting. However, they are not at issue here. At issue are Clemens behavior and apparent lack of veracity. On your point #3, McNamee did not link Pettitte to steroids--only to HGH. And he turned out to be correct in this respect.

Scot

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Sorry Ted, but your attacking the messenger is right out of the political handbook. You voted for Jimmy Carter?? Not many will admit to that one.

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Posted By: Alan U

It will be interesting to see if he is willing to testify in front of Congress.

-Alan

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Posted By: Al Simeone

CN,
I also tend to agree with you ,his body language was just horrible. You could just see the nervousness comming from him. Something I found very troubling was was he said himself , for a man with his work ethic (which I believe was second to none in his training) why would you say that in the asking of the question about the use of vioxx that you were taking them like "candy"! And knowing that it was linked to heart damage, then saying that the use of steroids is just a "quick fix" you dont see any horns growing out of me do you? If he had that much respect for hard work then pills should never should have entered the equation. I think Mike Wallace asked some very good questions and Clemens danced around alot of them.
Ted Z. I will also echo Dan Your comments sometimes are mind boggling !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Yes, it's tough admitting I voted for Carter (big mistake); but, I try to be truthful. Speaking about
the "truth", none of us really know whether Clemens is telling the truth or his trainer. But, I see that
McNamee is in big trouble and he will do whatever it takes to avoid prison.

The fact that he even brought Pettitte into this fray shows how desperate he is.

Where does Pettitte go to recover his reputation now, since Mitchell read his name in his litany of
steroid offenders ?

I do recall the "demise" of a once robust Lyle Alzado and how steroids can cripple you as you age.
I do not think Clemens would subject himself to such debilitating risks. And, please don't confuse
my words in defense of Clemens....as, I said I am not a fan of his. I have not forgotten that night
he threw that ball at Piazza's head. That was one of the most sickening moments in Base Ball.

Finally, I will fault Clemens for going on 60 Minutes with his story. It didn't make him look good and
we don't know how much of that was due to 60 Minute's editing department.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Two definites: Clemens will testify in front of Congress; and Clemens will lie in front of Congress.

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Posted By: DD

Most people with an addiction, be it drugs, alcohol, or smoking, or people that take an illegal substance for whatever reason, will downplay or rationalize the effects as it pertains to them. If that wasn't the case, no one would smoke, take drugs, or do steroids (except in the case of real medicinal value).

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Posted By: CN

Any advanced interrogater or cross examiner knows the key signs to look for to determine if a person is lying,Clemens was not even close. I wonder if the interview was controlled how Clemens would have responded. His counsel would probably not let him interview unless they controlled the interview. I respect Mike Wallace for what he does but at 89 years old there is only so much time he could push Clemens on the issue. I am sure that Jeff or myself would like to question Clemens in our professional capacity as we could go on for hours and would probably get a totally different response from this fraud. My guess is that if not granted immunity Clemens will take the 5th before Congress. CN

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

CN -- for what it's worth, 60 Mins does not give its subjects any control over interviews (as I so painfully learned as a younger lawyer; if not for the sympathy of a kind hearted producer they would have made a complete ass out of me via a Steve Kroft interview).

Now try to imagine Clemens taking the 5th before Congress after claiming he has nothing to hide! Good lord, professional athletes away from their games can be such complete idiots.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

This is what Roger Clemens looked like to me tonight.

Nathan Thurm lawyer for the Minkman Schnauze Company

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Hahha! Dan, there's got to be a youtube of him....

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Posted By: Steve

In addition to the tell-tale eye movement, this question was the real clincher...

When Wallace asked if he would take a polygraph, Rockbottom replied something like, "I don't know if those are even accurate."

What?.. I would think a "Hell yes" would be the first thing outtas my mouth.

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Posted By: George

Forget it.

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Posted By: Ken W.

Take the political discussions elsewhere, please.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Referring to the pre-drug testing era in MLB, a player can (and does often does) say "I never failed a drug test." To which a fan can accurately reply, "You never passed a drug test." It's hard to find meaning, much less 'proof,' in the fact that someone never fail a test that didn't exist much less was taken. I never lost an Olympics pole vaulting competition, which, trust me, doesn't make me an expert pole vaulter. I've also never lost an Indy 500 or a Miss Argentina pageant, failed the Harvard medical exams or lost a single round against James Jeffries.

"I couldn't have done it officer. At the time of the murder I was not losing the Russian National piano competition, and, as we all know, the Russian National violin competition takes place in Moscow."

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Posted By: CN

Jeff I should have clarified what I meant by control. I didn,t mean to insinuate that Wallace cleared the questions ahead of time with Clemens but the way I meant control was that the interview was done at Clemens house with Wallace sitting on a chair with ROCKET on the back thus giving Clemens at least some comfort level. CN

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Posted By: Bob

CN- You are spot on with the body language observations. Like Jeff, I have spent a lifetime cross-examining witnesses in criminal cases and the body language signs of falsified testimony were there.
Also, polygraph test results are inadmissible in many states (mine included), but may be admitted if both sides stipulate to its admission. My experiences have been that if the examiner is independent and truly impartial and well-trained, the results are very accurate, so much depends on the examiner. When Clemens replied to the question of whether he would be willing to submit to a polygraph test, I agree with a previous poster, he should have said (he was under no obligation) "hell yes, as long as we can use an examiner who is well-trained, experienced and impartial, and if so, it will prove I am telling the truth."
If Pettite had not admitted the trainer was corect, that he was injected twice with HGH as claimed, Clemens believability would be higher, IMHO.

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Posted By: Dan P.

I watched clemens on 60 Minutes also. 2 comments:

1) the last time I saw dancing like that was in a Fred Astaire/Ginger Rogers movie

2) in court "I plead the 5th" is the same as saying "I'm guilty but don't want to lie"

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Nathan Thurm

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Posted By: JT Burtchaell

I think he was lying too, but I hate overconfidence.

From The Forensic Examiner, Spring 2006

By Michael G. Aamodt, PhD, FACFEI, DSPCP
and Heather Custer, MS

Abstract
A meta-analysis was conducted to determine if there were individual
differences in the ability to detect deception. On the basis
of 108 studies covering 16,537 subjects, the results indicated that
confidence, age, experience, education, and sex were not
significantly related to accuracy in detecting deception. The study also
found that “professional lie catchers” such as police officers, detectives,
judges, and psychologists (M = 55.51%, N = 2,685) were no more accurate at detecting deception than were students and other citizens (M = 54.22%, N = 11,647).

JT

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Posted By: Ken McMillan

he did the drugs......No doubt about it.

Ken

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Tennis star Martina Hingis was recently suspended for testing positive for cocaine. A sportswriter said he was waiting for her to say, "I thought I was snorting Vitamin B12"

Evidently, the surest way to erradicate steroids in baseball is to have players quit taking B12.

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Posted By: Tom

I have not been a criminal defense attorney for a lifetime, yet, only 27 years so far. I disagree with Bob. Having shredded the testimony of more than one polygraph examiner to the point of making juries giggle at them, I do not believe there is enough "science" in polygraph examination to even raise it to the level of "junk science". If polygraphs were scientifically reliable, they would be admissible in the federal courts (they are not) and in most state courts (they are not). That being said, I agree that it was obvious from his demeanor that Clemens was not being truthful. He will either lie to Congress or take the 5th, a lose-lose situation. Roger should have come clean as Pettitte did. He might have been forgiven eventually. Now he has put his friend in a very tough spot. What will Pettitte do if asked about Clemens?

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Posted By: keyway

Amazing how some of you guys are now interigation experts. His eyes, the look on his face, his movements. Give me a break!!!!! He said he took loads of viox before he knew it was bad, so did I. Whats to lie about there. I don't like Clemens and never did but I hardly think he convicted himself in this interview. Todays News, Clemens is suing. Good for him. As he said, everyone today is guilty before the facts.

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

Why do you say that in order to avoid prison Clemen's trainer needed to lie about Clemens? From what's been reported, all he had to do was tell the truth, the substance about what he said being irrelevant as long as it was the truth. I was a bit surprised Wallace did not follow up on this point. Clemen's response was that, as Ted says, the trainer was motivated to lie. Wallace let it go at that, which I think will fuel accusations that he was too soft on Clemens.

Being an avid Yankees fan, I remember watching him in the late 90's and taking particular notice how puffy his face looked. This was before the whole performance-enhancing drug scandal was in the headlines so I wasn't focusing on his possible use of such drugs. I was just noticing something that, to a nondoctor, seemed strange for such a well-conditioned muscular athlete. Clemens in his interview made particular reference that his body did not change. I'm curious if anyone else noticed anything about his physical appearance when he was with the Yankees that roused suspicions.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I'll be anything Clemens has already taken and failed a polygraph test -- don't you think he and his lawyers would have loved to waive results of such a test all over the media? And if he hasn't taken one yet it's because he knows he'll fail.

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Posted By: barrysloate

After McGwire tanked in his first year of eligibility for the Hall, every athlete with Hall of Fame aspirations and oversized bodies has been put on the defensive. They know that if it is even assumed they took steroids it probably means a one-way ticket to Palookaville.

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Posted By: Jerry Rucker

According to this mornings Houston chronicle, who's reporters interviewed Clemens in Rusty Hardin's Office Yesterday afternoon. Clemens states that he had an hour long conversation with McNamee last friday. First I am shocked that Mcnamee's lawyer would permit such a conversation. This conversation was most likely taped by Clemens Legal team and I'm sure that McNamee told Roger that he was pressured to turn on him. Which Roger and his lawyers can use to spin in his defense. But unless McNamme was pressured to lie about Clemens it makes no difference whether he was pressured or not.
I think the defamation Lawsuit filed by Clemens is a ploy so he won't have to appear in front of Congress. Now he can just say, my lawyers have advised me not to talk about this.
Another thing, On the question from Wallace about the Lie Detector test. I think he probally has already taken one and the results were not to favorable or they would be waving it for everyone to see.
JMHO

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Posted By: Tom

I have no trust in polygraph tests as proof of anything. However, Clemens and his people are interested in public and media perception now, not about truth or proof. So, I agree with Jeff. If Clemens could pass a polygraph, he would have done so. It is likely that his lawyers ran him on a private polygraph test and he did not pass.

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Posted By: Steve Murray

"It is likely that his lawyers ran him on a private polygraph test and he did not pass."

But if this true why would his lawyers file a frivolous lawsuit?

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

I'd bet heavily that he hasn't taken a polygraph. Any such test would be discoverable in the defamation action. His attorney is far too calculating to have made that mistake.

I agree with Tom, there are good reasons why polygraphs are inadmissible and I would love to cross-examine any polygraph examiner. So Roger's failure to jump right into that fire means little to me. Personally, I can easily imagine a scenario where Roger, as a lay person, initially thought it a great idea to go the lie detector route, but had his lawyer tell him how it was largely a no-win situation--fail it and you're cooked, pass it and people will claim the test was unreliable or the examiner hand-picked.

I do not believe his interview to be all that telling. Yes he certainly looked uncomfortable and fidgety, but he also seemed genuinely frustrated and angry. He maintained eye contact for the most part, and he looked to me anxious to interrupt Wallace and almost as if he was gritting his teeth to maintain composure on occasion. I've had clients look pitiful in uncontested default proceedings where I am spoon-feeding the questions. Some people get nervous and stumble all over themselves in certain situations, and would look dubious even telling you that the sun rises in the East. I've also had other folks who I damn well knew were lying and looked as calm and believable as your grandma. Of course, you just feed those types with more rope to hang themselves, either their own inconsistent statements or other evidence. In that regard, Wallace could have done a better job asking questions that could be tested through other testimony or evidence, pinning him down on how frequently McNamee gave him his B12 and pain shots and who was present, where, etc., asking why such innocent shots were administered in his apartment and not at the team's facilities, i.e. stuff that is somewhat ancillary but which can lead to other avenues of truth finding. Of course, that is not necessarily his job and he had time and editorial constraints, but it would have been nice.

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Posted By: Jerry Rucker

Another thing, It is my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong but Lidocaine is a joint pain medicine that is suppose to be injected in the joints and not in the derraire.

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Posted By: Richard Simon

I doubt if Clemens will sue and open himself up to depositions. Lying under oath is a crime.
And also in regards to the lydocaine, a letter to the editor in the NY Times, from a doctor, stated that lydocaine is a local anesthetic. If Clemens got it injected in his butt, then he did so because his butt was hurting, it would not help his knee, elbow, arm or any other part of his crooked,lying body.
--

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: Darren

Lidocaine is a local anesthetic with a short duration of action used mainly as a numbing medicine prior to sutures, but also used in joint injections.

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Posted By: JK

"I doubt if Clemens will sue and open himself up to depositions."

Guess again: http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/080107/mlb_clemens.pdf

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Posted By: davidcycleback

A question is if Clemens actually did take only B12 and Lidocane and feels the trainer is mistaken, why didn't he simply tell this to Mitchell when Mitchell invited him and his lawyer to give their input? Is it just me, or would this have been the most obvious and sanest avenue to impart the knowledge if accurate, in particular considering Mitchell has said he removed a player's name from the document after the player provided counter evidence. Refusing to offer this information months earlier to a respected former judge in private quarters, but coming out with a YouTube video and staging a 60 Minutes interview in your kitchen is, to say the least, an odd and circuitous way to impart information if the information is true, simple and shows your innocence. And, considering the principle of Occam's Razor, there are always reasons someone, and lawyer, forgoes the simplest, most obvious and seemingly most self-beneficial way of doing things.

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Posted By: Steve Murray

What I find interesting about the Complaint is that it is neither signed by nor attested to by the Plaintiff.