Collecting card backs

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Posted By: Jason L

I have noticed that many people try to collect the T206 backs, with or without much regard to the front of the cards.
Being relatively new to the vintage era, this is new to me, as I don't know of any post-war cards that people do this with...

I would be interested to know, what other (pre-war or post-war) sets (besides T206) do people try to assemble back collections of?
Would any of them be any easier than the T206, which has several "rare" varieties?

Thanks!

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Posted By: Brian

T212-2 is collected by back slogan by some...

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Posted By: Chad

Al lot of T cards have different backs. The T-205's being one of the prime examples. I'm not a back collector myself, but there are some serious ones on the board that will chime in soon. Right now we're all preoccupied with the excellent thread about nothing and everything.

--Chad

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Posted By: leon

I am an avid back collector....I have most of the T20x(everything) backs and most others also....I love them and think they are very interesting. The e94 overprints, the different varieties of m101/4's and /5's and many more...you can see most of them in my personal collection at

http://www.luckeycards.com/personal.html

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Posted By: MVSNYC

i can only really speak about T206 (i know you had asked for other examples)...but i really enjoy the artwork of the different brands, and obviously chasing some of the rarer brands, adds an additional layer of excitement to collecting...i am currently (and slowly) upgrading the condition of all of my T206 brands...fun project.

good luck.

wish i could stay here longer, but i have to get back to the other thread...you know which one.

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Posted By: Jason L

Bonus round:
has anyone ever seen a "back collection" for sale/auction?

That would be interesting...because at some point, wouldn't the fronts have to come into consideration to determine value?

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Posted By: MVSNYC

you see a back collection every now and then come up for sale...i should have saved my downgraded backs and then had one big collection for sale, but i usually just sell them one at a time, as i upgrade...

in certain cases the fronts will of course come into play (HOFers, SLers, rarities, etc)...

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Posted By: barrysloate

Ron Oser used to offer all 15 collectable T206 backs in one lot practically every auction he had. I never figured how he had so many runs, unless it all came from one collector.

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Posted By: Bob

If I'm not mistaken people collect the 1952 Topps cards in the first series by red and black backs, but other than that I believe you are right about postwar back collecting. I have tried to obtain a different back for each set. For example I have the complete T205 set but am still working on obtaining a Hindu back for a reasonable price (may not be possible). To me the fronts are what the cards are all about but collecting one of each different back is fun. It's not a top of the shelf priority as I would rather spend the money to complete sets than have all the different backs in a particular set but it is enjoyable also.

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Posted By: fkw

1916 M101-4/5 style (roughly 20 different brands, not including variations)

1917 E135 style (6 different backs)

1920-22 E121 style (15+ different backs)

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Posted By: Glen V

Lots of series would be easier/cheaper than T206. M116 only had three backs. E92 has four, if you don't include the Croft Candy color variations. T3 is another option.

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Posted By: leon

About 5-6 years ago I did buy a back collection of M101-4's and -5's from Jay M......it's where the rarest backs I have came from....those being the 2 Gimbels print variations.....but those are rather esoteric even in back collecting...still, I love collecting the backs.....even more than the fronts.....most of the times

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Posted By: Jason L

for post-war...
and I would say that all the variation collecting that is done in post-war cards would be limited to the card fronts....such as slight differences in borders of factory-issued sets vs. non-factory-issued set cards (1988 Donruss springs to mind)

although perhaps the backs of post-war cards that contained games could also be considered as having different backs? wasn't it the 1978 Topps? perhaps others...

anyone else with thoughts on this?

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Posted By: Dylan

I kind of like to think of different backs as their own unique set within a set. So as a type card collector having an example of each back is like having an example from another set. Atleast thats how i look at it.

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Posted By: Jim Dale

36 of the reportedly 40 known backs in various low SGC grades were sold back in October for $4,920 including auction house fees. I haven't seen a broadleaf 460 on ebay in some time..not sure we will see one there any more as it seems they go to the auction houses.

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Posted By: Jason L

I thought there were only 16 backs, not 40???

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Posted By: andy becker

jason, check out t206museum.com

if you count different factories (not just brands) there are 40.
16 different brands.

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Posted By: Jason L

learn something new every day!

does that also include different printing colors then, like Red vs brown hindu?

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Posted By: MVSNYC

40? hmmm...if you check with some of the more advanced T206 back collectors, i think they would agree that some of them (old mill double overprint, for example), is a printing freak (printer's scrap, whatever)...i do not count that...

for now i am just trying to put together a very clean, mid-high grade collection of the 15 different brands (sans cobb)...

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Posted By: Jim Dale

When I was learning about the backs I brought up the same question about the 4 which were not part of the set. It was obviously debatable and a matter of opinion on "if" they were part of the set or not; it seemed that most felt they were. The t206 museum web site did a good job of presenting them as part of the set - making their case I guess - to me anyway.

PS. If you want to see the 36 (scans) email me and I'll provide a link. I was asked not to post it here which I will respect.

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Posted By: Scot Reader

LEON,

While we are (somewhat) on topic, do you agree with the scarcity order for M101-4/5 backs posted on Old Cardboard?

http://www.oldcardboard.com/m/m101-4/backs-gallery.asp

Seems to me that Herpolshiemer and Successful Farming, at least, are not given their due. Especially Successful Farming. I don't think I have ever seen one on eBay.

Scot

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Posted By: leon

I agree with you....

Your question to me is like asking you about T206's ....except T206's are much more widely collected than M101-4/5 (M101) backs and talked about more. When someone asks I am usually very willing to share the little I have observed. As usual I am opposite of most and have been watching and studying these M101 backs for about 9-10 years. My thoughts are made with all due respect to Lyman and Brett (hi Lyman and Brett), of OldCardboard.com Magazine and website. They do a fantastic job and I chat with them fairly often. My personal views are the following, without regard for the different series "-4" or "-5".

most common to least common backs...

1.blank
2.sporting news
3.famous-barr
4.standard biscuit
5.the globe
6.the tribune
7.wares
8.weil
9.herpolsheimer
10.indianapolis brewing
11.gimbels- italic print
12.burgess nash
13.block and kuhl
14.gimbels- large block print
15.green joyce
16.successful farming
17.morehouse baking
18.mall theater
19.holmes to homes
20.everybodys
21.gimbels- small block print

*22.noon-day cafeteria (only seen a xerox copy)

Since the Bucyrus Brewing Company cards have blank backs they really don't count individually on the "back meter"...My guess is that some blank backs could be one of those types..

My list is not definitive by any means.

I humbly look forward to differing opinions....
warm regards

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Leon,

Thanks for sharing. You know far more than I on this topic, but as far as I can tell you are spot-on. I think you should send Lyman an email and let him know gently that he needs to rearrange his photos. Just a suggestion--nudge, nudge.

Scot

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Posted By: Cobby33

Scot- In response to your question, I think that the "scarcity order" on the Old Cardboard (with all due respect to them) is TERRIBLY inaccurate. I think Leon's is much more accurate (though I would respectfully re-distribute a couple of them)

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Posted By: Dylan

They updated their website real quick with the 1930 Goudey Calender debacle. Id imagine they'ed update their list too if more correct info was brought to their attention.

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Posted By: leon

I speak with Lyman and Brett, of Oldcardboard, on a fairly regular basis. Even though I might think one thing about scarcity they might very well have another opinion. Most of the times we see pretty darn close to "eye to eye", but not always. No doubt a few of the M101-4/5 backs could be flip flopped....at least one place. As for collecting backs I like all of them and in the last month got a few I needed...which I will show when they come in....best regards

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Posted By: Dan Koochin

The various ad backs are as interesting to me as the players! I'm part ways through
my T206 rare back run, less the Old Mill rarity, and brown Lenox.
I just kept right on a going with T80s which were packaged with T206s, and offer
Uzit, Cairo Monopol, (Old Mill from the US west of Santa Fe to Australia!), Lenox
and the common Tolstoi. Couldnt live without a T206 Hustler back, so started on T59s,
Derby Little Cigars (always wondered if the 'baseball Derby' is mis-identified), and
the ultra tough Puritan Little Cigars.

re: Barry Sloate, the Ron Oser catalog rare back runs were to my knowledge mostly from
Frank Barning's collection , which must have been staggering. At one time, about half
of my T206 rare back run was from his collection alone. He probably had 15-20 Drums,
Uzits, Lenox, hundreds of brown Hindus (probably about 10% of those were red Hindu).

The T207s are a great challenge, someone pointed out to me that so far all the Red Cross
variety are White Sox only! The latest find was Bill Lange.

Vintage Rare Backs

http://www.nikanit.com/Vintage/

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Posted By: Jim Dale

That was a nice site; enjoyed the read and learned a few things - thanks. Its interesting the BL 460 "survey" you referenced indicating 8 cards then 6 found later....anyone know what they are up too in total number now? Just curious?