Do Roger Maris or Albert Belle belong in the HOF

[packs]

Originally Posted by rats60

ly

Maybe in the New York area. The 1961 season was 58 years ago. Unless someone is ~65 they weren't old enough to remember to chase. Most people in the West, South or Midwest have no idea who he is.

Are you serious? I don't understand how anyone who was alive in 1998 can possibly say something like that. Maris was the most famous name in all of sports during the most famous chase in all of sports at a time when baseball was at it's inflated height. I think you would have been hard pressed to find a person in the country who didn't know his name.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Are you serious? I don't understand how anyone who was alive in 1998 can possibly say something like that. Maris was the most famous name in all of sports during the most famous chase in all of sports at a time when baseball was at it's inflated height. I think you would have been hard pressed to find a person in the country who didn't know his name.

He is talking about NOW, not then.

[Baseball Bob]

My recollection of Albert belle was that he was a foul-tempered, cantankerous and lazy baseball player who wasted a lot of his talent. The HOF does not usually take in characters like that.....

[packs]

Why do people keep bringing up 1961 as a baseline for knowing who Maris is? Did everyone forget McGwire and Sosa's chase? Who were they chasing? How about Bonds' pursuit in 2001? That was only 18 years ago.

[h2oya311]

When I think of Albert Belle, I think of this play:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV3fNK31HD4

By the way, I voted "no" for both, although some of the arguments for inclusion of Maris are warranted. Interestingly, just because someone doesn't make the HOF doesn't mean that they aren't a major part of the HOF (Cooperstown). There's all sorts of equipment and other references to non-HOFers at Cooperstown, like Maris and Rose. I don't recall seeing any Joey Belle "stuff" there at Cooperstown. Feared, yes (see video). HOF, not so much. I'd stick Dale Murphy in the Hall well before Joey "Albert" Belle.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

When I think of Albert Belle, I think of this play:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV3fNK31HD4

By the way, I voted "no" for both, although some of the arguments for inclusion of Maris are warranted. Interestingly, just because someone doesn't make the HOF doesn't mean that they aren't a major part of the HOF (Cooperstown). There's all sorts of equipment and other references to non-HOFers at Cooperstown, like Maris and Rose. I don't recall seeing any Joey Belle "stuff" there at Cooperstown. Feared, yes (see video). HOF, not so much. I'd stick Dale Murphy in the Hall well before Joey "Albert" Belle.

Where the hell were Vina's teammates on that play, I mean even if that's a legitimate albeit very hard hit, you can't just let that be.

[drcy]

No to either, but Belle is more deserving, and it wouldn't offend by baseball senses if Belle was elected. In his prime, Belle had a Hall of Fame bat on the order of Jimmy Foxx or Lou Gehrig-- though had much publicized baggage including being a Terrell Owens-eque teammate.

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

When I think of Albert Belle, I think of this play:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV3fNK31HD4

By the way, I voted "no" for both, although some of the arguments for inclusion of Maris are warranted. Interestingly, just because someone doesn't make the HOF doesn't mean that they aren't a major part of the HOF (Cooperstown). There's all sorts of equipment and other references to non-HOFers at Cooperstown, like Maris and Rose. I don't recall seeing any Joey Belle "stuff" there at Cooperstown. Feared, yes (see video). HOF, not so much. I'd stick Dale Murphy in the Hall well before Joey "Albert" Belle.

no for both, BTW there are some pretty funny comments under that you tube video

[Marckus99]

Belle over boring Maris.
All day, every day.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Marckus99

Belle over boring Maris.
All day, every day.

Surpassing Babe Ruth's coveted home run record while the captivated baseball world held it's breath... you can't get any more boring than that.
While Belle was consistent throughout his career... what was exciting about it? When he was caught cheating with a corked bat in 1994?

[skil55voy]

I was 5 years old growing up in Detroit when Roger broke Babe's record. None of the adults around me wanted Roger to break the record. I can remember laying in front of our Emerson black and white TV and seeing the scroll across the bottom of the screen announcing Roger's 56th homer, his 57th 58th etc.. as he hit them. Even though most people were against him, he did it anyway. He became a hero to me because he did it anyway. I don't think anybody was ever in a zone like he was that year. I read an article where Norm Cash said that his 1961 season was like no other. He said that everything he hit just seemed to drop in. Don't care about the Hall of Fame. Roger had one of the great years in baseball, surpassing a bigger than life legend. Just a working guy who swung the bat like nothing anybody had ever seen. 159 hits - 61 were home runs. Incredible.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by skil55voy

I was 5 years old growing up in Detroit when Roger broke Babe's record. None of the adults around me wanted Roger to break the record. I can remember laying in front of our Emerson black and white TV and seeing the scroll across the bottom of the screen announcing Roger's 56th homer, his 57th 58th etc.. as he hit them. Even though most people were against him, he did it anyway. He became a hero to me because he did it anyway. I don't think anybody was ever in a zone like he was that year. I read an article where Norm Cash said that his 1961 season was like no other. He said that everything he hit just seemed to drop in. Don't care about the Hall of Fame. Roger had one of the great years in baseball, surpassing a bigger than life legend. Just a working guy who swung the bat like nothing anybody had ever seen. 159 hits - 61 were home runs. Incredible.

You don't think Babe Ruth was in a zone when he hit a mere 60 (with a much higher batting average)? Or Hornsby when he hit .424 or whatever it was? Yes it was a great achievement, but let's not be too hyperbolic about it.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You don't think Babe Ruth was in a zone when he hit a mere 60 (with a much higher batting average)? Or Hornsby when he hit .424 or whatever it was? Yes it was a great achievement, but let's not be too hyperbolic about it.

I think the difference is nobody was upset when Ruth hit 60. The public probably loved it. Almost no one wanted Maris to hit 61. His achievement was in the face of ridiculous odds and against the wishes of a public who was mostly against him. The closer Maris got to the record the worse the abuse was. I highly doubt Ruth got too many death threats on his way to 60.

If you want to put the public's feeling toward Maris into perspective, only 23,000 people showed up to see if he would break the record and the commissioner didn't even attend.

[TUM301]

My 2 cents, Maris`s argument reminds me somewhat of the Joe Namath one. Both players had some great years but overall, their career numbers didn`t make them automatic. However, both players had single historical moments that transcended their respective sports. Maris for historical "61" season and of course Joe and his Jets forever changing the NFL/AFL landscape defeating the Colts in the Super Bowl. For me, they are both Hall Of Fame Locks !