MastroNet 1952 Topps Wax Box Question

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Posted By: Mike McGrail

Greetings,

I am sure that many of you have seen the "flagship" lot in the current MastroNet auction. Kind of hard to miss a 1952 Topps wax box, seeing that the catalog was designed to look like a big wax pack from that year. After I finished drooling on the pages, I started to wonder about the chances of actually finding any high number cards within the 24 packs. Assuming the winner (it won't be me!) actually opens them.

From what I understand of the 1952 Topps set, the high number cards (311 - 407) were issued quite late during the 1952 season. So late, that Topps found themselves with a huge inventory at the end of the season. A large quantity were even dumped into the ocean.

Now, the wax box being auctioned strikes me as a promotional thing that would have been created and distributed before (or at latest early into) the 1952 season. And would then only contain cards 1 thru 310.

Along these lines, I would think that there is no real chance that any of the 24 packs contain high number cards.

Would do you folks think? Am I overlooking something here?

Ciao for now

Mike

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

That one pack in the box was opened, supposedly back in 1952 by the boy whose father bought them for him. The claim is that this one pack contained five cards, two or three of them high numbers. It's the only time I've ever heard that 1952 high numbers might have been mixed in with earlier series. It seems plausible enough, but I don't know how Mastro can prove it conclusively without opening more packs, which I guess they don't want to do.

That's what I heard, anyway

Tim

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Posted By: Cy

I own a 1960 unopened wax pack. I will never open it. THE PACK is the collectible, not what is inside the pack.

Now getting back to the 1952 packs. There are plenty of 1952 cards around, even though it is a rare Topps issue. There are so few packs that if you keep the pack unopened, its value will surely outweigh anything that you could find in there, other than a PSA 10 Mantle. And the gamble of getting that card is too risky.

Cy

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Posted By: petecld

I have to admit I thought it was all "too" perfect that high numbers were found. It wasn't enough to just have a unopened box from 1952 box - no, it has to be a box with high numbers. The case that Rosen found, didn't it contain all cards from just the high series? Seems odd for Topps to offer the cards in series but then distribute them in packs with cards from one series and with mixed series?

Besides, as silly as this may sound - think back to when we were kids, who here can say they opened ONE pack from an entire box they had and then left the rest "forgotten" about. C'mon.



Cy,
I think they are counting on the fact that the packs will never be opened.

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Posted By: Scott Bob

In my opinion, MastroNet is trying to mislead people to believe that 52 Topps box is from the 5th/6th high series. Think about it, a full box has 24 packs. If the kid opened one pack, how can the box still have 24 unopened packs? On top of that, there's another GAI 7 52T pack 5th/6th series being auction alone and I am very positive that pack was from the same collection. How can they be so sure they were all from 5th/6th series based on one opened pack that contained a few high number cards.

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

Having received a couple of skeptical questions, let me clarify:


I tried to indicate my own skepticism about this-- I'm just reporting what I was told. I have no interest in the matter-- who cares about postwar dreck like 1952 Topps anyway?

The rest of the story goes like this:

I WAS TOLD that the single pack opened in 1952 was still with the box when it came to Mastro. The dealer I was speaking with named the cards supposedly in that opened pack, although I've now forgotten who they were-- commons as I remember, but at least a couple were high numbers-- so I WAS TOLD.

Supposedly the kid preferred the smaller Bowmans and never took an interest in the whopping great Topps cards, so the box was just packed away for all this time. Etc. Etc.

I don't doubt that Mastro routinely hypes things disproportionately, but THEY ARE CLAIMING that the provenance of this opened pack indicates what's in the box.

Again, I don't take a position on the validity of this claim myself. If I were Mastro, however, I'd hesitate to make the claim knowing that at least some of the packs are bound to be opened by the winning bidders.

A 1952 Topps pack is totally unlike a 1960 pack, especially if it contains high numbers. The claim that high numbers are involved will surely make it MORE likely that some packs will be opened in search of a PSA 10 Mantle (triple-printed, after all)

FWIW

glad to have found a way to enliven some of your mornings

Tim

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Posted By: Albie O'Hanian

According to the write-up in the Mastro catalogue the five players in the unopened pack were Posedel #361, Abrams #350, Sleater #306, Castiglione #260 and De Maestri #286. Imagine if the one pack opened had a Mantle or a Pafko.

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Posted By: Scott Bob

There's no way u can pull a Pafko. Pafko is from the 1st series. If someone pulled a Pafko from a 5th/6th series pack, there's a chance u could pull a t206 wagner. lol

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

that no matter how thrilled i am to get 19th century cards, and that I'm selling almost ALL my Colgans in order to go to the National to get some, I would be THRILLED to open a 1952 pack (you can stop the sentence there, if you want) and find a beautiful Robinson, a Campenella or even a Mantle. Or even some crisp new commons...

Not that I'm even going to BID on them...

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Posted By: jay behrens

was a hi number cello case. If memory serves me right, Rosen paid $250k for the case and was seriously thinking about backing out of the deal. I remember hearing that and thinking, man, if I got offered that case at that price, Iw ouldn't even think twice. A lot of money yes. But I knew that between selling of a box, some packs and opening most of them, that I would get more than my money back.

Jay

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Posted By: petecld

Jay,

C'mon, back then $250K was a lot of money to spend on Baseball cards, now, it's an average Mastro invoice - just kidding.

I don't think even Al Rosen dreamed that one day just ONE of the cards from that case would sell for more money than the entire case set him back.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I had done the math on the break up value of that case and I guess I worked on a lower margin Rosen did. I took into account that 2 cards in every pack would be ruined by the gum, how many possible Mantle, Robby, Mathews, etc you get and how many of them would be ruined and that price would have been fine by me. I'm just curious what the original asking price was since I am sure a lot of negotiations were involved.

Jay

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Posted By: Harry Haller

After looking at the Mastro pack-scans, I am very encouraged: it appears that GAI labelled all of these with the correct year.

Question: since these wax packs were sealed with...wax...could they be opened and then re-sealed? I'm sure no one would do that, but hypothetically...

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Posted By: jay behrens

It's been done, but's not any thing to do and make it look good. I'd be more concerned about other problems like small tears and holes that would allow someone to scan the packs.

Jay

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Posted By: Julie

My worser half had me get "Steppenwolf" (in German) out of the library for him on my card (having failed to return 6-7 books two years ago, he no longer has an active card). He either lost it or hid it. Anway, he just paid me, and I just paid the library. He's ruining my reputation at the library!
Harry Haller indeed!

Hey, the German chess cards are neat, but the Cuban photographic ones are nicer...

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

McKenzie--he's the guy whose games are always used in books as an example of the "loser"; Zukertort: excellent player, but died young of TB. Steinitz: some think the greatest of all time. Went insane at end of life (once stood on the table during a simultaneous match and peed all over the table). Died 1900.

Hooray! The upload is working again!

About those wax boxes...

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Posted By: Harry Haller

Julie - I knew I would see a "Steppenwolf" reference from you. It's probably true that there are no more than a handful of "Julie Vognars" on the planet, but "Haller" is an incredibly common name...as is "Harry".

BTW - I'm 49.75 and have an important decision to make in three months - just how well-read are you? Did you ever get a chance to read Crombie's "A Finer End"?

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

That novel came out a couple of years ago--very nice end papers(love the fuzzy sheep!). Not bad. Don't think I'd use it as an example of being "well read," though. How did you know I was reading, or was going to read it?
Favorite mystery novel: "The Nine Taylors" Dorothy Sayers
Favorite novel: "Under the Hog" Patrick Carleton

And you?

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Posted By: jay behrens

My favorites are At the Moutains of Madness by H P Lovecraft and Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S Thompson. I also am a big fan of Roger Zalazny, Issac Asimov, Robert Heinlein and Harry Heilman.

Jay- a big SF dork

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Posted By: Nickinvegas

My three favorite books:

Confederacy of Dunces: J.Kennedy Toole(Just a solid book)
Peoples History of the U.S.: Howard Zinn(A true history of our country)
Marsans Biography: Peter Toot (short, but incredibly well written)

I liked fear and loathing too, but hated the movie; it ruined it for me.

Nick

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I pay you people good money to talk about cards, not discuss books like a bunch of effete literary nerds.

The ONLY books I want to see referenced here are The Glory Of Their Times, The American Card Catalogue, and The Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards.

Jus' Keedin'...

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Posted By: david

this item is up for sale again in lelands all star fanfest auction. pretty quick turn around on this high profile item. do you think the buyer realized he might have gotten shafted on the item

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Posted By: Marc S.

report that there is a health crisis in his family, for which he needs the funds. He apparently offered the box to the #2 bidder at Sportsfest - and he passed on the opportunity.

The current owner/consignor of this box is a very respected member of the community - whose integrity is without question. He has owned a number of high-dollar and important sportscards over the years - although his personal collection is somewhat smaller, often funded by strategic flips he has made in his set building and subsequent divestment. This purchase was not meant to be a flip - it is the health crisis that warranted the sale.

MS