T213-2 Coupons ++ Educate me please .....

[mybuddyinc]

With my T206 and T207 sets “nearing completion,” I’m looking for a new “adventure.”

Without babbling on about what sets do not excite me, I’ll jump to one that has caught my eye – T213 Coupon Type 2:

I like the blue captions, but, most importantly, I really like the team changes (with multiple players), as well as the Federal Leagues. I think I may start out with those two categories, then maybe expand to “same T206 team” and HOFs. That, and as far as HOFS, a few BIG names, but nothing crazy, imo.

So, all you Coupon-2 fans (or any other issue), please educate me:

1 – I’m sure the answer is yes, but are there some team variations that are tougher than others ?? Are some crazy tough ?? Some examples ??

2 – I have found a good check list (of course), but is there a list of only Fed. Lg. Players ??

3 – How are the Coupon HOFs price wise as compared to their corresponding T206 HOFs ??

4 – I see on ebay, there are only a few at this time (~100). Is that the norm, or is there a lull ??

5 – Also on ebay, I see grades (graded and raw) in my range (2 or less) going for $100-150. Is that the norm, or is there a recent spike/lull in pricing ??

6 – For a complete set that consisted of grades 2 or less, what might your budget be ?? I’m “assuming” ~30K ??

Oh, I do have one, just because of Savannah home town:

ycam.jpg

(BTW, for those who might care: Harry, not Howie, played for Sav.)

Thanks for any info.

Appreciated, Scott

[packs]

One cool feature of the T213-2 set is that there's a Frank Chance card that has him with Los Angeles, making it an often overlooked PCL card.

[sbfinley]

I can't speak to much about the nuances of the set, but I do have a couple and one of my favorite things is the handful of towns/cities that get a card and are otherwise forgotten by pre-war sets. Here's my Devore Chillicothe, which is my wife's hometown.

Edit: Just went to look at the checklist after I posted this. Looks like Chillicothe is really the only obscure town listed. For some reason I thought there were others.

[brianp-beme]

2 – I have found a good check list (of course), but is there a list of only Fed. Lg. Players ??


Here is a list of the 33 players (38 different cards) with Federal League team designations on the card (have edited below list to include additional Chase, Doolan, Tinker, Bender cards):


1914-16 T213-2 Federal League Cards

Barger - Pittsburgh
Bender - Baltimore (2 poses - pitching w/trees / pitching no trees)
Bradley - Brooklyn
Bridwell - St Louis
Brown - St Louis
Camnitz - Pittsburgh
Chappelle - Brooklyn
Chase - Buffalo (2 poses - holding trophy / throwing)
Crandall - St Louis
Doolan - Baltimore (2 poses - batting / fielding)
Downey - Buffalo
Evans - Brooklyn
Ford - Buffalo
Groom - St Louis
Hofman - Brooklyn
Knabe - Baltimore
Konetchy - Pittsburgh
Lennox - Pittsburgh
Mowrey - Pittsburgh
Mullin - Indianapolis
Mullin - Newark
Murphy - Brooklyn
Murray - Kansas City
Oakes - Pittsburgh
Quinn - Baltimore
Reulbach - Brooklyn
Schaefer - Kansas City
Smith - Baltimore
Stovall - Kansas City
Summers - Brooklyn
Tinker - Chicago (2 poses - bat off / bat on)
Wilhelm - Baltimore
Willett - St Louis
Wiltse - Brooklyn (2 poses - portrait / pitching)


The above list (I have made edits) was pasted from post # 8 in the below link which discusses cards from the Federal League era with Federal League designations.


https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?p=2289125


Brian

[Epps]

That's pretty cool! I never knew that Chillicothe made a card of anyone. I played for the Paints back in 2015 and really enjoyed my time there. Great baseball town!

Originally Posted by sbfinley

I can't speak to much about the nuances of the set, but I do have a couple and one of my favorite things is the handful of towns/cities that get a card and are otherwise forgotten by pre-war sets. Here's my Devore Chillicothe, which is my wife's hometown.

Edit: Just went to look at the checklist after I posted this. Looks like Chillicothe is really the only obscure town listed. For some reason I thought there were others.

[molenick]

One thing to note is that SGC does not differentiate T213's by catalog number but by year. So T213-2 is 1914 and T213-3 is 1919 (I do not have a T213-1 to show).

[edhans]

Always liked the T213-2s. To answer some of your questions-There are many team change variations that are quite difficult, the most important of which is the Demmitt-New York. There are only a handful known and a two (if one ever surfaced) would probably set you back $5K or more. $100-150 for a common two is not that far off. It's a bargain for anything north of common. I highly doubt that a set of 2s could be assembled for under $50K. Best of luck in the hunt!

[mybuddyinc]

Brian,

Thanks for Fed. list, they might be my start.

Funny that Chillicothe was mentioned. I also checked teams on list. I thought Camnitz with Sav. was the lowest level a C. But Chillicothe wins as a class D lg.

Fun, fun, Scott

[gabrinus]

Type 2 is a great set and difficult to sum up in a quick post...there are a few guys on here who know a lot...what Ed said about the Demmitt is right...Jerry

[nolemmings]

Here's an old thread that delved into the t213-2s
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=213899
Here's a scan of the Demmitt with New York Uniform showing (not mine)

[brass_rat]

I would agree that -- as others described -- the full set is not for the faint of heart.

I'd also mention that technical grades mean almost nothing for this set. There are plenty of great looking 1's out there, and they frequently look just as nice as the 3's, if not nicer.

I've been lucky to make it to needing only one card for the set... That pesky NY Demmitt is what I need, so if anybody has a lead on one...

Good luck if you choose to pursue the set or any side projects within it!

Cheers,
Steve

[t213]

There are 185 cards on the checklist and I got to 180 different before breaking it up. There are distinct levels of difficulty. The bulk of the cards were issued in 1914 and aren't that difficult. Many team changes were updated in both 1915 and 1916, and these range from super difficult to extraordinarily difficult. There are a handful of Fed League players shown with two different Fed League teams - Mullin with Indianapolis (1914 easy) and Newark (1915 super hard). Here are all six versions of Bender.

Andy

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by t213

There are 185 cards on the checklist and I got to 180 different before breaking it up. There are distinct levels of difficulty. The bulk of the cards were issued in 1914 and aren't that difficult. Many team changes were updated in both 1915 and 1916, and these range from super difficult to extraordinarily difficult. There are a handful of Fed League players shown with two different Fed League teams - Mullin with Indianapolis (1914 easy) and Newark (1915 super hard). Here are all six versions of Bender.

Andy

As is seen by Andy's post, the T213-2 list I posted earlier that I have been updating still needs additional updating. I will continue to post variation additions to the list when I confirm them...so keep on checking back Scott.

Brian

[cubman1941]

I bought these long ago and have read this with interest and trying to understand -

I have these listed as 1914-16 Coupon Cigs Type 2 (T213)
So
Bresnahan is a type 2 variation (Cubs)
Hofman is a Type 2
Needham is a Type 2 but
Tinker is a Type 3 (same photo as T206 1909-1911 Tolstoi)

[GeoPoto]

I don't know a lot about the set, but from a Washington perspective, Gandil is the one that has been the hardest one for me to capture. Here's some of the other Washington entries, if I rely on the uniforms and not the team designations:

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by cubman1941

I bought these long ago and have read this with interest and trying to understand -

I have these listed as 1914-16 Coupon Cigs Type 2 (T213)
So
Bresnahan is a type 2 variation (Cubs)
Hofman is a Type 2
Needham is a Type 2 but
Tinker is a Type 3 (same photo as T206 1909-1911 Tolstoi)

All four cards you showed are 1914-16 T213-2 cards. All cards in the T213-2 set feature front designs seen originally in the T206 set.

In the T213-2 set (the 2 in the T213-2 designation indicates Type 2), Bresnahan has two cards, both with the same front design, a 'Chicago Nat.' designation at bottom, and one with 'Toledo'.

Hofman has two cards, both with the same front design, the 'Brooklyn Fed.' designation like you showed, and with his name spelled incorrectly (Hoffmann) and a 'Peoria' designation.

Needham has one card with the 'Chicago Nat.' designation (can't see that in the image you provided...let us know if something different, because that would be a new addition to the checklist and would be heavily pursued by the T213 crowd).

Tinker has four cards in the T213-2 set, two with the 'bat off' front design, and two with the 'bat on' design (like your example). Each front design has two cards in the set, one with the 'Chicago Fed.' designation at the bottom, and one with 'Chicago Nat.' designation.


Brian

[cubman1941]

Brian,

Thank you. I appreciate the information very much.

Jim

[Exhibitman]

The finish on the cards tends to craze, which makes for low grade but very attractive cards

[wolverinejayhawks]

I collect this set and have it about 1/3 done using the 185 checklist.

Most of the cards on eBay are overpriced, fixed price listings. Search for T213 cards on eBay and then click on sold listings. You will get a better idea of pricing.

T213-1 and T213-3 cards in general sell for higher prices than T213-2 cards because they are more scarce due to shorter print runs. T213-2 cards were printed for a longer time. However, because players changed teams, were sent down to the minors (e.g., Roger Bresnahan playing for Toledo!) or went to the Federal League, the checklist is big with many variations. Some variations are indeed almost impossible to find. If you look at a master checklist, the players on multiple teams are usually going to have a version of the their card that is tougher to find.

Prices have gone up in the last 5 years with the rising popularity of the set. At auction on eBay, commons at PSA or SGC 1 seem to sell from $45 to $90. There are a lot of PSA/SGC 1 commons fixed-price listed at $115 to $150 that aren't moving (January 2025). Auctions seem to be sparse in recent months. Because T213 cards were a regional issue in the South, you do not have the amount of cards like T206 and T205 that were issued all down the East Coast in the major population centers. However, you do not have as many collectors chasing them either.

Below is a Federal League card from my PC. There is some debate about whether it is harder to find T213 cards in as high grade as T206. I don't know if it's true. I have heard three theories: (1) the card stock wasn't as thick as T206, (2) the finishes on the cards fade, (3) humid weather in the Southern US made the cards absorb dirt and fingerprints more readily. My take is that it's just a mirage because of the smaller number of T213 cards in circulation. This theory is probably testable by looking at the Population reports at PSA or SGC, but I'm too lazy to do that right now.

Good luck with your collection.

Vince

[wolverinejayhawks]

Originally Posted by cubman1941

I bought these long ago and have read this with interest and trying to understand -

I have these listed as 1914-16 Coupon Cigs Type 2 (T213)
So
Bresnahan is a type 2 variation (Cubs)
Hofman is a Type 2
Needham is a Type 2 but
Tinker is a Type 3 (same photo as T206 1909-1911 Tolstoi)

Cubman1941,

Your Tinker is also a T213-2, not a T213-3. The way to tell the difference is the back of the cards:

See: https://www.cardboardconnection.com/...baseball-cards

Many T213 cards look exactly like T206. Same poses were re-used. Indeed, some people think that T213-1 cards are really just T206 cards with Coupon being a back variation like Sweet Caporal, Polar Bear, Hindu, etc.

[RCMcKenzie]

No way that thread was 10 years ago, Todd and all. OP, you are on that old thread, you know more than me by now. I've added like 5 cards in 10 years. Has anyone other than MaCrae completed T213-2?

How has it been 10 years? I'm old. I also was worried when I saw a thread called "Leon".

Hang in there, gang.

[cubman1941]

Thank you very much. I appreciate the checklists also.

Jim

Originally Posted by wolverinejayhawks

Cubman1941,

Your Tinker is also a T213-2, not a T213-3. The way to tell the difference is the back of the cards:

See: https://www.cardboardconnection.com/...baseball-cards

Many T213 cards look exactly like T206. Same poses were re-used. Indeed, some people think that T213-1 cards are really just T206 cards with Coupon being a back variation like Sweet Caporal, Polar Bear, Hindu, etc.

[Pat R]

Type 3 for reference and a Type 2 to stay on topic.

T213-2 and 3.jpg

T213-2 and 3 backs.jpg

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by Epps

That's pretty cool! I never knew that Chillicothe made a card of anyone. I played for the Paints back in 2015 and really enjoyed my time there. Great baseball town!

That’s cool to hear. My wife’s grandfather was a big Paints supporter and went to almost every game from their inception. When he passed we inherited many items and dozens of team signed balls and bats. He also played several years for the Mead Paper Company Team which was a popular semi-pro team in the town and played several major barnstorming and Negro League squads.

[brianp-beme]

Like Adam stated concerning the glossy finish prone to crazing, even a fairly low condition card like the examples below can retain a fresh, colorful look (at least they do in my eyes).

Brian

[tbob]

If you want a lengthy post on the largest and greatest discovery of T213 cards ever made and how it happened etc. hit the search bar and write in T213, I just finished posting it today (Feb. 8, 2025) the who, how, where, when and why of the incredible find of around 2500 cards from one source from the 1980's.
You're welcome :-)

[mybuddyinc]

Originally Posted by tbob

If you want a lengthy post on the largest and greatest discovery of T213 cards ever made and how it happened etc. hit the search bar and write in T213, I just finished posting it today (Feb. 8, 2025) the who, how, where, when and why of the incredible find of around 2500 cards from one source from the 1980's.
You're welcome :-)

Thanks for link, read it, very interesting.

Back then I only knew T213-2s as a catalog number ...... but now it's my new "obsession." ...................

Of course, can't compare prices from then and now, but find today's price quite acceptable ......

up18.jpg

Fun, fun, Scott