1966 Topps 6th Series/Semi-Hi's

[deweyinthehall]

Here's the only Azcue MC I was tracking - looks like a rookie stars card above him?

Are we feeling sure enough of the Phillies over Buchek to use it to help construct the columns?

I don't see the Stigman color line fingerprint over the Bailey - what should I look for?

I looked again at the Schofield MC and I think it could easily be either the RS or Braves rookies, so on my sheet I took away Schofield being over either (have him listed elsewhere as over one or the other).

Separating this out leaves us with a column with Gibbon, Braves Rookies and GOrdy Coleman and another with only Schofield and Hannan.

I think it is Barber over Roznovsky, so that gives us a baby column with Roznovsky, Barber and Kline.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Here's the only Azcue MC I was tracking - looks like a rookie stars card above him?

Are we feeling sure enough of the Phillies over Buchek to use it to help construct the columns?

I don't see the Stigman color line fingerprint over the Bailey - what should I look for?

I looked again at the Schofield MC and I think it could easily be either the RS or Braves rookies, so on my sheet I took away Schofield being over either (have him listed elsewhere as over one or the other).

Separating this out leaves us with a column with Gibbon, Braves Rookies and GOrdy Coleman and another with only Schofield and Hannan.

I think it is Barber over Roznovsky, so that gives us a baby column with Roznovsky, Barber and Kline.

Here's the Azcue miscut, I have to agree with Kevin that it is Don Buford under Azcue after comparing the miscut to the top of Buford. Every Phillies Team card has that ink dot so I would confirm Buchek under the Phillies Team card. There is another Azcue with a Rookie Stars card above it but I don't know if there is a way to tell which one it is, I'll have to study it for any clues. ETA: I think it could also be a team card above Azcue.

[Kevvyg1026]

The Bennett miscut with the trademark of the adjacent card near the edge of the pink border could be either 501, O'Donoghue, or 487, Ferrara. Both of those cards are 4x, and both have the trademark in the approximate correct location.

When I adjust the images using my crude abilities, it looks to me as if Ferrara is a better match, but I'm not ready to conclusively state that.

[Cliff Bowman]

I ran across this miscut last night that I didn't know I had because I listed it as a 7 Series rather than a 6 Series, it shows #511 Giants Rookie Stars at the top of a Slit which I believe puts the card at the end of the 4x Aaron row. I am puzzled why this card and Camilo Carreon have lower than normal 4x quantities on eBay but as of now all of the evidence has them at the end of 4x rows.

[deweyinthehall]

Things change quickly, so to sum up, here are the columns, full and partial:
LE
Aaron
Nuxhall
Fox
Moeller
Skinner
Gonzalez
Cubs Rookies

RE:
Hamilton
6th Checklist
7th Checklist
Wood
Giants Rookies
Carreon
Edwards


Oliva
Simmons
Ellsworth
Howard

Roznovsky
Kline
Barber

Buford
Latman
Azcue

Gibbon
Braves Rookies
Coleman

Radatz
Rollins

Yankees Rookies
Bressoud

Blefary
Klippstein

Bunker
Lee

Hannan
Schofield

Jimenez
O'Dohoghue

Richardson
Rodgers

Cannizzaro
Belinsky

Additionally, we have these side-by-sides:
Jimenez/Phillies Team
Klippstein/McAuliffe
Green/Linz
Bennett/Ferrara

These cards are on the top of one slit:
Aaron
Lolich
Wynn
GOnzalez
Giants Rookies

We also have an Aaron on the bottom row

Plus, about a couple dozen or more indeterminates that may prove useful as we get closer and start a process of elimination.

[Cliff Bowman]

This is one of the tentative slits that Kevin and I came up with the LE (header) cards and the RE cards that are on the same row. The other slit has the Aaron row at the top but we need more information to complete it.

1. Gonzalez - Carreon
2. Nuxhall - S Hamilton
3. Fox - Checklist 6
4. Skinner - Wood
5. Aaron - Giants Rookie Stars
6. Moeller - Checklist 7
7. Cubs Rookie Stars - Edwards
8. Gonzalez - Carreon
9. Nuxhall - S Hamilton
10. Fox - Checklist 6
11. Skinner - Wood
12. Aaron - Giants Rookie Stars

[Kevvyg1026]

We also have the possible vertical pairs of Wynn-Ferrara and Phillies team- Buchek, unless you feel it's too early to definitively call those.

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

This is one of the tentative slits that Kevin and I came up with the LE (header) cards and the RE cards that are on the same row. The other slit has the Aaron row at the top but we need more information to complete it.

1. Gonzalez - Carreon
2. Nuxhall - S Hamilton
3. Fox - Checklist 6
4. Skinner - Wood
5. Aaron - Giants Rookie Stars
6. Moeller - Checklist 7
7. Cubs Rookie Stars - Edwards
8. Gonzalez - Carreon
9. Nuxhall - S Hamilton
10. Fox - Checklist 6
11. Skinner - Wood
12. Aaron - Giants Rookie Stars

[deweyinthehall]

My bad - I had recorded the Phillies over Buchek on my spread sheet, but forgot to include it here. So that's 2 complete columns and 13 pieces of others that will somehow come together to form the remaining 9.

IMHO the Wynn Ferrara match seems too tentative at this point.

[Kevvyg1026]

I think the only two possible cards that it could be (Under Wynn) are Podres or Ferrara. The other Yanks/Dodgers have been eliminated (Moeller is in Col 1), Yanks RS doesn't match, Richardson is over Lee, Hamilton is in C11, and Friend has the strange sky (photoshopped?).

Interestingly, I also show Richardson has a red banner above him.

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

My bad - I had recorded the Phillies over Buchek on my spread sheet, but forgot to include it here. So that's 2 complete columns and 13 pieces of others that will somehow come together to form the remaining 9.

IMHO the Wynn Ferrara match seems too tentative at this point.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

I think the only two possible cards that it could be (Under Wynn) are Podres or Ferrara. The other Yanks/Dodgers have been eliminated (Moeller is in Col 1), Yanks RS doesn't match, Richardson is over Lee, Hamilton is in C11, and Friend has the strange sky (photoshopped?).

Interestingly, I also show Richardson has a red banner above him.

It is Ferrara under Wynn, it can’t be Podres because he has trees at the top left. Also, Richardson has B Rodgers under him, not B Lee.

[Kevvyg1026]

Yes, you are correct. I have card 462 under Richardson, which is Rodgers.

[deweyinthehall]

Agreed - Ferrara is under Wynn. Since neither Wynn nor Ferrara have previously be identified in any other over/under pairs, this now gives us 14 column fragments (setting aside the LE and RE) out of which 9 will eventual emerge, once we get some more miscuts.

[bb66]

Thanks for all the work on the tough 6th slit guys!Awesome .

[Cliff Bowman]

Bobby Bragan is above Sam McDowell, I'm pretty sure Bragan is a 4x and McDowell is a 3x. I thought it was a Rookie Stars card at first but realized it's a regular player card and McDowell has a facade in the upper right corner.

[deweyinthehall]

Cool! Neither Bragan nor McDowell had popped up before, so now we have a total of 15 partial columns that need to eventually be reduced to the 9 we still need.

[deweyinthehall]

Buchek at the bottom of one of the slits...

[deweyinthehall]

.

[Cliff Bowman]

This thread has hit the proverbial wall, Jose Cardenal has a Rookie Stars card to his right on a 3x row.

[Cliff Bowman]

From a previous miscut it was known that a Pirate-Red Sox player was above Ken Johnson but not which one, a more severe miscut shows that it is Dennis Bennett, two unique flaws in the cartoon border line on Bennett match up perfectly with the card on the miscut. We should have this baby wrapped up by 2044.

[Kevvyg1026]

Which is better progress than we're making on 65 series 6 or 58 series 1 and 6. LOL

[deweyinthehall]

With Bennett over Johnson, this gives us 16 partial columns from which eventually only 9 full columns can emerge (we have the LE and RE columns complete).

I swear every time I search daily uploads on eBay of "1966 Topps" I will find at least 1 miscut where you can ID an adjacent card, but NEVER of this 6th series - they must have put their top crew on that shift.

Those cards for which we still have absolutely no matches (making them high value targets) are, according to my records:

Pirates Rookies
McDaniel
Covington
Podres
Stuart
Face
McCool
Stanky
Banks
A's Team
Hargan
Cardenal
Hatton
Wilhelm
Stigman
Woodeshick
Friend
Wyatt
Lolich
Bearnarth

[deweyinthehall]

So, I think these images confirm that Hoyt Wilhelm is at the top of one of the slits - agree?

Do we think the Stanky image gives enough basis to declare him at the bottom of one?

[deweyinthehall]

Uh-oh.

The left hand column was previously determined to have been:
Aaron
Nuxhall
Fox
Cubs Rookies
Gonzalez
Skinner
Moeller

Does this image of Wyatt mean we need to reconsider??

[Cliff Bowman]

I am very confident that we have all of the correct LE (header) cards, that Wyatt must have been cut at the maximum right on top of the line. It also appears that both slits of the 1966 6th Series has a 4x row at the top of each sheet and a 4x row at the bottom of each sheet.

[deweyinthehall]

The more I look at it, it appears Wyatt may be trimmed along the right border.

[deweyinthehall]

Found a Lolich image on eBay placing his row at the bottom of a slit. There is an image of a Lolich on this thread which places his row on the top of a slit as well.

Also, there is this image that is on eBay - I asked the seller to post a scan of the reverse. We'll see.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Found a Lolich image on eBay placing his row at the bottom of a slit. There is an image of a Lolich on this thread which places his row on the top of a slit as well.

Also, there is this image that is on eBay - I asked the seller to post a scan of the reverse. We'll see.

Nice find! It is a Brave or an Angel, which are B Rodgers, K Johnson, Bragan, B Lee, Cannizzaro, H Aaron, and Cardenal. Aaron is not possible, it's highly unlikely Bragan or Cannizzaro because they have different cards under them, so that leaves Rodgers, Johnson, Lee, and Cardenal. Unfortunately I don't see any unique flaws in the color band, so hopefully we will be able to tell by the back scan.

[Cliff Bowman]

We need more of these, John O'Donoghue (I believe) is to the left of Jerry Buchek. It is a Phillie or an Indian, and O'Donoghue is the only one that matches. What looks like blue on the edge must be chipping.

[deweyinthehall]

Has to be O'Donoghue - the placement of the TM line on the reverse cinches it.

[Cliff Bowman]

Here is the back of that miscut Mickey Lolich, I'm pretty certain it is Buck Rodgers above him but I can't confirm it. I don't think it is either of the pitchers Bob Lee or Ken Johnson, the bottom part of the p of pitcher would be showing on the front of the card, and I don't think it is Jose Cardenal because the black border line of his cartoon has a couple of unique flaws that aren't present on the Lolich miscut.

[deweyinthehall]

It's Rodgers. On the Cardenal, the cartoon loop doesn't extend past the orange border as it does on this card. The only other possibilities (setting aside Bragan for obvious reasons) would be pitchers Johnson and Lee, both of which as you say would show a trace of the 'p', and Cannizzaro. It can't be the latter because the black stat lines run to the edge of the orange field, which also obviously doesn't match. So, you're correct - it has to be Rodgers.

Since we already had a mini column with Rodgers and Richardson, it now has Lolich as well.

Two matches from the 6th of '66 in one day - who would have thunk it?

[Kevvyg1026]

490 Richardson is also below a yank/Dodger

1966_490_TC_red.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

490 Richardson is also below a yank/Dodger

Attachment 628264

There are six Yankees/Dodgers in the 6th Series and Richardson, Hamilton, and Moeller are eliminated, so that leaves Friend, Ferrara, and Podres. I think it is Friend or Ferrara but I can't determine either one.

[deweyinthehall]

Jim Hannan at the bottom of a slit.

[deweyinthehall]

Skinner is under Fox - Fox is the only other yellow card on the left edge...

[Kevvyg1026]

Yes, Fox and Skinner are both leading edge cards and Fox is over Skinner

[deweyinthehall]

Ken Johnson is over Manny Jimenez. This creates a partial column of Johnson, Jimenez, Bennett and O'Donoghue.

In our quest to ID the remaining 9 columns, we are down to 15 partials. 2 have 4 known cards, 5 have 3 and the remainder have 2.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Ken Johnson is over Manny Jimenez. This creates a partial column of Johnson, Jimenez, Bennett and O'Donoghue.

In our quest to ID the remaining 9 columns, we are down to 15 partials. 2 have 4 known cards, 5 have 3 and the remainder have 2.

Nice! According to this miscut O'Donoghue can be found with a Red or Twin above him, so that means it could be Oliva, McCool, Rollins, or Klippstein also in the column. It can't be Nuxhall or J Edwards. ETA it can't be Oliva because he is already in a column with four known cards, so it has to be Klippstein, McCool, or Rollins in the K Johnson-Jimenez-Bennett-O'Donoghue column.

[deweyinthehall]

I had never seen any pop counts on cards from the 6th series, so I did a quick eBay count and this is what I came up with:

Edwards 41
Skinner 49
McDowell 52
Coleman 55
Wood 57
Blefary 58
Bunker 61
Fox 62
Howard 62
Cardenal 63
A's T. 64
Bearnarth 65
Bressoud 65
Richardson 67
Checklist 7 69
Moeller 72
Cubs R. 72
Bailey 72
Covington 72
Giants R. 74
Carreon 77
Roznovzky 78
Phillies T. 81
Buford 81
Friend 81
Oliva 84
Schofield 84
Woodeshick 85
Podres 91
Jimenez 96
Braves R. 96
Red Sox R. 98
Hargan 98
Yankees R. 103
Ellsworth 109
McDaniel 113
Hatton 117
Gibbon 119
Face 119
K. Johnson119
Bragan 119
John 119
Banks 119
Hamilton 119
Lolich 123
Nuxhall 125
Cannizzaro127
Wyatt 127
Kline 128
Stuart 129
Pirates R. 133
Lee 137
Gonzalez 138
Latman 144
Rodgers 153
Wynn 176
Simmons 180
Aaron 182
Radatz 183
Ferrara 192
McAuliffe 210
Green 210
Buchek 211
Rollins 212
Barber 222
Linz 222
Klippstein 228
Checklist 6 232
Stanky 240
McCool 242
Azcue 245
Wilhelm 250
Belinksy 257
Bennett 259
O'Donoghue 277
Stigman 302
Hannan 356

Of the leading cards in each row, Aaron, Nuxhall and Gonzalez seem to clearly be the 4x rows, with Fox, Moeller, Skinner and Cubs Rookies being the 3x rows.

Not that any of this helps move us along at this point.

In my 1966 Topps set post, you mentioned possibly having the slit layout for the unknown 5th series slit? I agree that Reed and the Angels Rookies are definitely 2 of the 3 4x rows, but my quick eBay count suggests either Jones or Bunning, not Monbo, as the other 4x.

[deweyinthehall]

This popped up again - can someone remind me why we think the card above Johnson here is Bennett as opposed to Lenny Green? Taking a look at the orange fields on the backs of both Bennett and Green makes me think Green might be the better candidate.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

This popped up again - can someone remind me why we think the card above Johnson here is Bennett as opposed to Lenny Green? Taking a look at the orange fields on the backs of both Bennett and Green makes me think Green might be the better candidate.

I am positive that is Bennett because there are two unique flaws on the cartoon border line that match perfectly with the K Johnson miscut and a Bennett card. There is a problem with that column though. Each 1966 6th Series column must have three 4x cards and four 3x cards. Right now that column has three 4x cards, K Johnson, Bennett, O’Donoghue, and one 3x card, Jimenez. There is a miscut O’Donoghue that shows a Twin/Red above him and the only currently available 3x Twin/Red is Rollins. The problem is Rollins brings along Radatz because there is a miscut showing Rollins under Radatz, and Radatz is a 4x. There is a flaw somewhere. I also find it odd that O’Donoghue is the only card we have found that appears to have two different cards above or below it.

[Cliff Bowman]

After taking a quick look at eBay quantities I was surprised to see that Ken Johnson is well into 3x numbers, so a current column of

D Bennett
O'Donoghue
K Johnson
Jimenez
Rollins
Radatz

is plausible. I don't know why I had it in my mind that Ken Johnson is locked in as a 4x, and the current eBay quantities of Rollins and Radatz are both in the range where they could be 3x or 4x. Bennett and O'Donoghue are the only two guaranteed 4x cards in that column.

[deweyinthehall]

Saw this today on eBay - we know Aaron is in the left side column with Fox, Moeller, Nuxhall, Cubs Rookies, Gonzalez and Skinner. And, we know that on at least one of the slits, Aaron appears over Moeller.

What card is beneath Aaron here?

The color seems to be purple, but Aaron is the only purple card in the column. The back suggests either Moeller or Skinner I think based upon what appears to be the top corner of the orange section on the adjacent card.

Obviously, the card beneath Aaron here is having issues with the color.

Any thoughts?

[deweyinthehall]

Moeller over the Cubs Rookies

[deweyinthehall]

Belinsky over Stigman?

From the front, it looks clearly like Stigman, but on the back the orange section of the adjacent card extends slightly lower than Belinsky's, which Stigman's seems not to.

Thoughts?

[Kevvyg1026]

here you go. Might it be Wyatt?

1966_506_above_521.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

perhaps a better MC with Moeller above 482 Cubs RS

1966_482_TC_Moeller.jpg

[deweyinthehall]

Thought I'd bring this back to the top since I don't think there was ever any discussion on it -

These two Aaron miscuts SEEM to show him sitting atop an orangish card and over a purplish/navy card. No other cards in the "known"(?) left edge column (i.e. Nuxhall, Fox, Moeller, Skinner, Cubs Rookies, Gonzalez) would fit.

I've gone back and it SEEMS like the left edge cards were arrived at soundly.

Thoughts? Is there any way one of these Aarons could be over another Aaron?

[Kevvyg1026]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Thought I'd bring this back to the top since I don't think there was ever any discussion on it -

These two Aaron miscuts SEEM to show him sitting atop an orangish card and over a purplish/navy card. No other cards in the "known"(?) left edge column (i.e. Nuxhall, Fox, Moeller, Skinner, Cubs Rookies, Gonzalez) would fit.

I've gone back and it SEEMS like the left edge cards were arrived at soundly.

Thoughts? Is there any way one of these Aarons could be over another Aaron?

I thought that might be a simple color shift from Moeller, but ???

1966_500_449_BC.jpg

[JollyElm]

OT:
I hate headshot cards, but the 1966 Topps Aaron is an extreme exception. Frickin' love the look of that card with the knowing smile and confidence. Awesome!!!