Validating/Dating Scorecards

[gonefishin]

Just wondering if anyone has any tricks or methods of establishing the specific date a game was played for a vintage scorecard that doesn't reflect the date of the game. Of course, other than the scorecard being filled out. Even when it is filled out, it is a pain in establishing the exact date.

I find myself reading every page of the scorecard trying to narrow down when the game was. Sometimes I get lucky, but most of time not.

Thanks.

[bigfanNY]

Baseball referance is a big help. First since you know teams and year it narrows choices down fast. Then looking at scores can narrow more. And batting orders also help. Look under schedule and results..
Hope this helps
J

[gonefishin]

As always, thanks Jonathon. I use baseball reference frequently, and other like sites. They are a big help, but I struggle when it comes to the older scorecards that aren't scored, nor do they contain a date. I actually try to use dates or items referred to in the text ads, but sometimes I just can't figure it out.

I was hoping there was some sort of marking, serial number, or copyright that might pin them down for me. However, I realize that each team and stadium used their own printers etc. If one has a scorecard with both Ruth and Gehrig in the lineup it would be nice to know the date of the game.

I've become enamored with scorecards for about a year or so and am eager to learn from people that have collected them much longer than me.

Again, thanks.

[ooo-ribay]

Kind of off topic but not really…is there much of a problem with blank scorecards later filled out to make them look like they were milestone games?

[bigfanNY]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Kind of off topic but not really…is there much of a problem with blank scorecards later filled out to make them look like they were milestone games?

It is not common but it can happen. So typically the preprinted lineup would mean it can be narrowed down to a particular series. Say the Dodgers come in town to play the Giants for a 3 game series. Now if game 2 is a No hitter or other milestone. And you have a blank scorecard it is worth less than a fully scored version. Could someone score it.... yes but I wouldn't say it happens often.

[doug.goodman]

I find retrosheet.org to often be easier to navigate then baseballreference (which gets the majority of its info from retrosheet).

When trying to date an unscored program I first check all the times the visiting team was at the home team that year.

If there are "upcoming games" listed in the program that can eliminate some games.

Checking transactions by the teams during the season of the players on (or not on) the rosters is often helpful in narrowing the time frame.

The cover of the program can help narrow down the date if the team had multiple program covers in a year. The Dodgers started changing their covers thru the year in 1958, I think the Yankees started in 1964, etc.

[obcbeatle]

Both of these are good questions. Awhile back I too wondered about how to accurately date scorecards, AND, wondered if people might score vintage scorecards to fetch more $, as scored cards seem to sell better. I literally would look at the ink texture/color, compare the ink to other legit scorecards I had, etc. Not always easy to do when shopping online however. Also, I play Strat-O-Matic Baseball (SOM) and I remember when I was a kid I used unscored scorecards that my Dad would get at the Giants games, games he went to but didn't score (back then they had a business mans special for SF Giants games on Mondays, his boss would urge his employees to go to. Wish my boss would do that! I was very jealous, still am!). Anyway, I would use those old scorecards to score some of my SOM Giants games. I have no idea where those scorecards are today. Lost in one of my many moves over the years I guess. This is certainly an outlier, but it gave me some pause when wondering how many other SOM players might have done what I did Like Doug I use retrosheet. Baseball Reference has way too many ads for my taste. Retrosheet is all text, laid out simply, and you can go down rabbit holes looking at all the data on their website Anyway, I wish I had started collecting scored scorecards years ago. They make great companion pieces!

[bigfanNY]

I wish I had started collecting scored scorecards years ago. They make great companion pieces![/QUOTE]

Companion pieces???
Cards are picked up in candy or drug store or picked up at a grocery store and cut off a back etc. BUT SCORECARDS...They were at a Game!! Witness to the ebb and flow of the National game as it happened. They are not a companion pieces......
Lol..

Seriously great post I had a great boss for a bit with season tickets to Yankees and as long work was done didn't mind running into me at afternoon games.
Because I have always favored Daytime Baseball.
J

[obcbeatle]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

I wish I had started collecting scored scorecards years ago. They make great companion pieces!

Companion pieces???
Cards are picked up in candy or drug store or picked up at a grocery store and cut off a back etc. BUT SCORECARDS...They were at a Game!! Witness to the ebb and flow of the National game as it happened. They are not a companion pieces......
Lol..

Seriously great post I had a great boss for a bit with season tickets to Yankees and as long work was done didn't mind running into me at afternoon games.
Because I have always favored Daytime Baseball.
J[/QUOTE]

Yes, scorecards are uber historical (I love the ads too!), one of the reasons I wish I had started collecting them years ago, before the prices shot up. I definitely gravitate more towards historical pieces these days. BTW, my Dad DID take me/us to plenty of Giants games between 1965-1971, when we lived in SF. But as a kid I was so jealous I had to go to school knowing my Dad was at Candlestick watching a noon Giants game, on many a Monday. Of course he had to weather the wind and cold at "The Stick", which could be brutal by afternoon I watched many games wrapped in a blanket while drinking hot chocolate from a thermos. Just about every game I went to it seemed like McCovey would hit a line drive HR to that little bleacher section beyond the RF fence. Some great memories. BTW, I should add that most of my early scorecards were scored in pencil, not pen. Didn't want to throw anybody off by my mentioning pen ink color/texture. I was tired when I wrote that post. I only have a few scorecards scored in pen. And those are from the later 1960's. Here is a score card from a 1951 Dodgers @ Giants game. Maglie threw a 3 hit shutout in the Polo Grounds. I believe this was a June night game. I play SOM baseball and am replaying the 1951 Giants season. It is hard for me to believe anyone could have shutout the Dodgers that year. They had such a potent lineup!!

[gonefishin]

Jerry I think you summed it up pretty good! I can tell it brings back fond memories for me - and that's what it should do.

I believe all my vintage scorecards are scored in pencil. If it was me, they definitely would have been in pencil.

I don't know for sure, but I can tell pretty easily if its faked (at least I think so). There are always a lot strike outs, penciled in players, mistakes, etc. There are a lot of indicators that lead one to believe when they are real.

My collection seems to just keep growing and I love flipping through the scorecard programs. I've been lucky to find some pretty cool ones

If it's scored, I can find the game from which it came. If it's from an exhibition game, that's pretty easy to validate. When its blank I struggle. If it's a vintage Yankees scorecard with Ruth and Gehrig in the lineup, but unscored, I would really like to know the date it was from!