More Info Needed on the 1932-33 Minneapolis cards-Dan and Todd

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Posted By: Richard Simon

I just purchased the scrapbook with these cards in it that I mentioned in a previous thread.
There are a number of 1932 Wheaties in the group (all have a pinhole at the top and scrapbook residue on the back and the collector wrote 1932 and the position of the player in pencil on the back). The cards I have are: Bush, Vangilder, Fitzgerald, Rose, Dey, Moury, Ryan, Denburg, Harris, Hill, Richards, Smith, Ruble, Cohen, Hauser, Benton, Ganzel, Henry and Griffin. Griffin's facsimile is white, all the others have black facsimile signatures.
Also 1933 Wheaties of Hauser and Ruble.
In addition there is the Ruth and Foxx from the 1933 Worch Cigar set. (no pinhole, scrapbook residue on back, no pencil writing). What do you think those two cards are worth if I get them graded.
There are also 4 cards with Mpls Star logo on the card (1933 printed on back), these are: Norris, Glenn, Hilcher, Cohen. (I cannot upload this image, as I am over the limit in my Temp File).
Can you advise me about values and sending them to PSA or SGC?
Thanks very,very much for all your help.
There are also these cards, (the cards are clear, the scan is not) which appear to be the same as the Arlett:


I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

that all of these are either Worch's or at least considered Worch's. As you know, Worch's name does not appear on any of the cards attributed to that company.

1. What are considered Worch's are cards that have multiple types of nameplates, and occasionally multiple pictures of the same player, so they were likely either issued over time and/or were something other than just the premiums sent out by the Worch Cigar Co. When you say 1933 is printed on the back, do you mean printed as part of the card or hand-printed? Worch's are all blank backs, as far as I know.

2. The 2007 SCD book acknowledges that the Mpls Millers cards listed as Worch come from 1932-1935, while the St Paul Saints come from 1933. The cards you scanned and the unknown ones you identified are all Millers. All of these players are listed as having Worch cards. Holland played for Mpls in 1933 and 1935, but not 1934. Arlett did not play for the Millers until 1934. Hilcher did not play for them after 1933. They all could be among the cards listed as Worch, even with different name styles.

3. Some of the cards show a St. Paul Daily News logo, and the few of these I have seen were all Saints. It is quite possible these cards were actually issued by the paper, not the Cigar company. It would be equally unsurprising if the Minneapolis paper ran a similar campaign for Millers players, which would carry a logo for that paper. The two teams were bitter rivals, and it makes sense that one would try and outdo or at least match the other.

So, they may be considered Worch's and would match up with known listed players from that set, but I would wager they are more likely either newspaper premiums or team issued with the papers acting as sponsors.
My guess is that the grading companies would treat them as Worch's, at least until more proof to the contrary is shown. I can't guarantee either company would grade them numerically if soaking has been detected. They have been pretty harsh on their grades for this set as it is, so don't get your hopes up too far. Values? I would say only about $20-40 on the minor leaguers, tops, unless someone wants to believe they are from a unique set, which I suppose is possible. I would guess the Foxx to be worth $100-$150 and the Ruth 2 1/2 times that, depending on the grades they grab, which I assume to be low.

EDITED TO ADD: Please don't put much stock in my valuations.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Worch's are actually found sometimes with a postcard reverse...I had a Gabby Hartnett like that. Now I'm not so sure on the minor league cards they issued. I like Todd's theory that they may have been issued by the newspaper.

And I can't speak to Todd's valuations on the cards because I haven't seen too many for sale, but I believe the Buzz Arlett will bring much more than $40... In his case I think there is a much larger galaxy of collectors who will pay a premium for any of his cards.

As others have said also, I think PSA will be less harsh with grading cards that have back damage than SGC...and will likely bring more money when you flip them.

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Posted By: Richard Simon

Todd and Dan - thanks so very, very much for all your help.
Todd - when I said it was printed on the back of the card, I meant the collector, in pencil, wrote in the year.
I will send the Ruth and Foxx and Arlett to PSA and I won't be soaking them, I think that is too risky with photo type cards.
==

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss