Authentic Grade- good, bad, indifferent

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Posted By: leon

Since just getting back 4 beautiful cards in SGC Authentic holders I figure it is apropo (darn, I spelled that correctly the first time...little miracles) to post about the subject. I also just sold a beautiful D303 Mothers Bread, Plank, on the board BST very quickly. I doubt it would have sold as quick without a holder and only "deemed" trimmed . I can barely see the trimming but that has to be the issue. I also feel the values of cards in AUT holders are a little better than non-holdered. I would pay a little more for a card in an AUT holder rather than raw, would you? I think AUT is very good for the hobby. Other thoughts on AUT....

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Posted By: Sean

I think the authentic grade is great for the above type cards, anyone would probably assume it’s trimmed, since it’s one nice looking card and there are no major flaws.

I would pay more money for an authentic graded card than a raw “trimmed” card, it seems to add some kind of legitimacy to it. I own a few nice looking T206 that were trimmed but having them in an authentic holders I’m sure if I went to sell them they would at least command a higher price.

My thoughts; I also think cards that are beyond destruction should receive an AUTH grade rather than the 10 (1), but we talked about that a few weeks ago.

Sean BH

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Posted By: Joe D.

I agree....

Not sure whey SGC charged me the money for some of my cards that they didn't slab authentic (just sent them back as trimmed).... I guess I didn't check the right box on the order form.

Sure wish they would have just asked my preference.

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Posted By: leon

You must request the AUT grade otherwise you will get the card sent back unholdered....

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Posted By: steve f

Most of my strips are Authentic. I don't mind the grade, it's certainly a subjective matter. SGC 50's could easily cross over to PSA A and vice versa.

Also, I feel safe in that I'm not leaving my kids, a bunch of counterfeits.

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Posted By: Joe D.

unfortunately I didn't really know that until after I got the cards back.

I just chalk it up to a lesson learned.

I did sit down and go over my order (bulk order of 200 cards) with an SGC rep... it would have been nice if it was mentioned.

Quite honestly I don't understand the policy - why wouldn't they slab it? why wouldn't I want it in a slab? Its not like they are refunding the money... I am still getting charged... even if I will eventually crack it out - the slab would at least protect the card for the time being.


I am not upset about it... like I said, its just a lesson learned. Not my first screw up, and it won't be my last.

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Posted By: Bobby

The "A" label generally means the card is altered and authentic and it has it's good points and bad. Yes it gives validity to the card when you are trying to sell it in an auction or through the B/S/T. But when "A' cards start selling for more themid grade cards you got to start wondering. A 33 Goudey Lajoie sold in the REA last auction was trimmed and brought in PSA 4 and close to 5 level dollars. I don't know if that is a good thing, people my be induced to altering cards to make them look perfect if that trend continues. At least before when they did not holder a card you knew it was something wrong with the card and it was a crap shoot.

Here is a good Poll idea what would you rather have in your collection:

A. Solid SGC 40 or PSA3 Card
B. Marked o rMK card that looks like an 8
C. A trimmed card that looks like an 8
D. A re-colored card that looks like an 8

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Posted By: leon

They will work with you...trust me. If you still have the flip(s) that say what the issue is they will probably give you a discount on putting it/them in an AUT holder. They have very good customer service. They won't automatically do it for many reasons. Of the batch I sent in there was one card I just bought. Since I bought it as legit, and it had an issue, I am returning it. I am returning it the same way I bought it and they did ask me, since others were being holdered AUT, if I wanted it in an AUT holder. I said "no". That would be one reason. I am sure there are more. Again, I am sure if you explain the situation, and have already had it looked at, they will work with you.... and as you said...lesson learned. Probably the least expensive lesson you will learn, in the hobby, too .

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Posted By: jay behrens

I like AUTH grade. As others have mentioned, it's that little bit of extra reassurance that the card is real, but has problems. This also creates the situation where you should buy the card and not the holder since cards that are graded AUTH will be over the board when it comes to appearance.

I realy wish SGC would just slab anything AUTH that will not get a regualr grade. You are paying them for their service and should get your monies worth.

Jay

Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: Joe D.

They should set their policy to slab as AUT... unless you decide you do not want it that way.

I am guessing they don't do this because it is not to their advantage (economically).

That is the business world I guess... when a company has a choice for a consumer - the default is usually the one most advantageous to the company (even to the disadvantage of the consumer).

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Posted By: leon

With the stage already set, and AUT cards having an issue, and therefore not warranting a number, an AUT "only" grade on a good card would greatly diminish it's value. Sort of like re-writing the ACC...nice idea...but about 46 years too late.....

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Posted By: V117Collector

The authentic grade "A" yes, the card is real!
Also what comes to mind is the card must be trimmed "just to bad, what shame!" As for paying more for the card in the "A" holder, are we comparing the price value of a similar graded trimmed "A" or the same untrimmed raw card (what condition)?

Regrading Leon's card above, I most likely would pay little bit more for the card because it looks near mint, also whens the last time you seen the same card in that condition, trimmed or untrimmed?

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Posted By: Josh K.

I have no problem with Auth graded cards - though in answer to the question above, I'd take the 8MK if the mark was on the reverse any day. I would also prefer a solid 3 or 4 over a trimmed/auth. card.

As for the Auth. bringing in psa 3 or 4 dollars, I think one sale of a 33 lajoie is the wrong example to use. that is an extremely rare card and I bet if it had been slabbed a 3 it would have brought double the amount the auth card was sold for. Maybe Im wrong since I dont track goudeys, but I would bet there havent been enough examples of that card sold recently to know what any particular grade will sell for in an auction.

Finally, Im not sure about this, but I believe that the only cards sgc will grade auth are trimmed or undersized cards (cards that may not be trimmed but were previously rejected anyway as being too small to holder). I didnt think that they would slab cards that were recolored, rebacked, etc.

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Posted By: E, Daniel

Anyone else know whether SGC will slab AUT a card that has been re-colored?
I've had an E104-1 eddie collins come back a couple of times un-slabbed from SGC, and I know it is both trimmed and color-touched-up - but thought it would warrant the authentic grade as it is indeed AUTHENTIC.........

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Posted By: Josh K.

did you request that it be graded authentic? If not, they wont do it. I would suggest just calling and asking.

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

As I understand it, a grade of "Authentic" does not necessarily mean the card has been altered. It means the grading company does not have sufficient certainty that it has not been altered. Or, to put it a different way, if a grading company thinks there is a chance a card has been altered, they will give it an "Authentic" grade. That is far different from saying the card HAS been altered.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

I hope you're right on that last point. Recolored or rebacked cards should not warrant an authentic grade, at least not one like Leon's card.

On the other hand, I've never had a problem with an authentic/altered tag. It can say Authentic in larger letters and trimmed, re-colored, etc below. I also would like to have the option to have cards slabbed as authentic/unaltered. Say I had a set of E95s, all in the 2-4 grade range. I might just like to see them all in one same-looking slab. Authentic/unaltered works for me(registry collectors might recoil in horror).

I also agree with others that you should be entitled to a slab if you paid for it, whatever the flip might read.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

It's about time that the AUT (AUTHENTIC) labels have been made more available. It only makes sense to do this. I spoke with a few SGC people at the 04 National and they were contemplating this but it took a while for it to finally catch on. I think they must have been asked that question quite a few times because the response seemed "canned" and rehearsed.

I have a few cards encapsulated AUT and I'd rather have them this way than not. SGC will provide the AUT label but there are certain conditions for which they will not do this. It would be great if the AUT criteria was posted on their website as well as PSA and GAI.

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Posted By: E, Daniel

Josh, I did indeed ask for the Authentic grade - both times!!

And if an authentic grade isn't simply guaranteeing the card to be authentic and not a reprint, and nothing else, then what purpose is it?
Why is someone taking the stanley knife to the bottom edge of Leon's card less alteration than someone using a colored pencil to fill in a spot of wear?
I agree, the visual effect can be different and Leon's Plank is gorgeous, but if the cut were on the diagonal, or seriously short, how do we judge these vagaries in alteration? For me, altered is altered.

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Posted By: Bobby

Yes SGC does grade cards that are re-colored...I post it in the extra field when I track them for VCP. Or it might be PSA that does it lookining at 10,000 cards a week I have only seen a couple that have been marked that way.

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Posted By: andy becker

couple points.....

sac will be sending comp grade certificates for cards they do not holder.....at least that has been my experience.
they send those in a separate mailing (not when you get your cards back)....so give them a bit of time.

I have a lot of cards holdered authentic, these cards are not altered in any way.....but all the cards are one of a kind. it is my opinion that assigning a grade would only be detrimental to a "one of a kind" card.

also, the cards i have had assigned the authentic grade all would grade 5-6-7-8....somewhere in that range.

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Posted By: leon

Unfortunately the AUT is a bit of a moving target. I think you are correct but generally speaking an AUT card might bring a little less in monetary value. I had my 1875 Candy Cummings team card put into and AUT holder at first, as the graders didn't know enough about the issue. I argued the point that if there was nothing wrong with it then it should get a numerical grade. Since they couldn't find anything wrong with it they put it in a, rightfully deserved, 80 holder.... regards

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Posted By: Josh K.

Bobby - I think you may be mistaken. I spoke to someone at sgc about this a long time ago (last year) and things may have changed, but from what I recall about the conversation, the only cards that I recall them telling me would grade authentic are trimmed/short cards.

It is my understanding that once a card has been recolored or rebacked they no longer consider the card to be authentic. In other words, if a card is trimmed, what is left is still authentic. If a card has been recolored, what remains is no longer authentic.

I have a card that was slabbed a psa 1 that I sent for crossover. SGC wouldnt cross it because of the strong possibility that it might split in half if cracked out. I asked them if that happened, would they grade the card Auth and put the pieces in a slab that fit correctly and would keept them together (the psa slab was a condom and the card floats around).

Their response was that a card that has been split in two was no longer an authentic card - even if you had both halves. I dont agree with it but that is what I was told.

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Posted By: Anonymous

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Posted By: T206Collector

...do what GAI does and put "TRM" or "RECOL" or whatever on the labels under the A/AUT.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

I dont mind color problem if not noticeable ,trimmed just
doesnt do it for me. Being aroung these cards nearly 20
years and SIZE DOES MATTER !!!!........and "A"doesnt do
it either for me,rathet it be in a screwdown. We are all
different.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I am with T206Collector on this one. Inquiring minds want to know. Don't be vague, tell it like it is.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I was all in favor of the authentic grade. Now I am not because the way it has played out has been that any piece of crap, no matter how altered, is being labeled authentic. I've seen cards with trimmed borders slabbed as authentic, cards with areas colored in slabbed as authentic, etc. Consequently, I no longer will have my cards labeled that way nor will I buy any cards labeled that way. The graders need to start specifying what is wrong with a card on the flip if "authentic" is to mean anything other than "altered".

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Posted By: Bill Kasel

I sent this to SGC and they sent it back holdered AUT without me requesting it. It's not trimmed at all, just obscured by a lot of junk.



My personal collection - http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/

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Posted By: Andy

The Beckett authentic labels say either "Authentic" or "Authentic-Altered".
Edited to add the authentic labels are also blue instead of the standard graded label colors.

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Posted By: Harry Wallace (HW)

If a card has been altered then it should read "AUT. ALTERED."

If a card is so naturally damaged that it cannot be called Poor, then it should be labled "AUT."

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Posted By: Bob

I put this in the other thread before I saw this one, sorry for the duplication.


When I send in a shipment, I also add the addendum that if a card is determined to be ungradeable with a numerical grade to please slab it as "authentic." I also cringe when I do this because I agree with the above posters that it is almost giving the graders an open shot to find something altered or trimmed even if you feel it is not, but I'd rather have it slabbed authentic than returned with a little note saying "evid of trimming." I believe GAI is now slabbing cards as authentic without a prior request if the issue is trimming, at least that has been my experience.
As far as Adam's comment, I agree and disagree in parts: I agree that too much is being lumped in as "authentic" but on the other hand a very nice card which may be barely trimmed or miscut still brings a heck of a lot more on ebay in a slab showing off the eye appeal of the card. I also noticed that more and more sets are being sold in Mastro, lelands and other auctions where 3 or 4 of the cards, all slabbed, are graded as authentic and it doesn't seem to hurt the lot bidding at all. For this reason I believe that eventually the stigma of a card slabbed as "authentic" because of size problems or trimming will become more and more valuable, especially tougher cards from tough series, and the price disparity which exists will shrink quite a bit. Although some "purist" collectors with cash to burn might blanche and be turned off by a, say, E97 Keeler which appears exmt but is authentic because of a very slight trim, this card will continue to become more and more valuable and expensive in years to come.
Just my 2 cents...

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Posted By: steve f

Perhaps all "AUT" should contain a PSA-type qualifier, ie;(rec)(trm)(glu) or whatever the man-made flaw.