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  #1  
Old 01-20-2022, 05:16 PM
robw1959 robw1959 is offline
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Default Undergraded Cards

Here's a fun post. In a salute to the "new" grading standards that we have all experienced as buyers and sellers, please post the card that you think is the most severely undergraded, and give your opinion of how many points under the norm it received. I'm not asking you to create your own grading standards; just go with what has already been established for the reputable grading companies over the long term, compare your graded card to those standards, and subtract the difference between what your card received and what the standards say it should have received in points.

I'll start with a card that should be hard to beat in terms of undergrading. As you can see, this '34 Goudey Hank Greenberg rookie card only got a 1.5. However, with no creasing, wrinkles, erasures, or paper loss, according to the PSA standards, I think it should have gotten a 5.5. So in my opinion my "under" points on this card would be a whopping 4 points. Now let's see your most undergraded card, and please stick to vintage.
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File Type: jpg IMG_20220120_0001.jpg (77.2 KB, 882 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220120_0002.jpg (78.0 KB, 876 views)

Last edited by robw1959; 01-20-2022 at 05:17 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-20-2022, 06:31 PM
vthobby vthobby is offline
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Default Wow!

Beautiful Greenberg!

I wish they had graded Satch as high as 2.5. I totally understand the tape but the card is pack freash and has amazing eye appeal. Colors pop off the card!

Oh Well! I love it either way!

IMG_9108 copy 4.jpg

IMG_9108 copy.jpg

Last edited by vthobby; 01-20-2022 at 06:35 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-20-2022, 07:09 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Greenberg seems overly punished for the toning. Paige looks correct to me
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  #4  
Old 01-20-2022, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtgmsc View Post
Beautiful Greenberg!

I wish they had graded Satch as high as 2.5. I totally understand the tape but the card is pack freash and has amazing eye appeal. Colors pop off the card!

Oh Well! I love it either way!

Attachment 498607

Attachment 498608
Great Card Mike
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  #5  
Old 01-20-2022, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robw1959 View Post
Here's a fun post. In a salute to the "new" grading standards that we have all experienced as buyers and sellers, please post the card that you think is the most severely undergraded, and give your opinion of how many points under the norm it received. I'm not asking you to create your own grading standards; just go with what has already been established for the reputable grading companies over the long term, compare your graded card to those standards, and subtract the difference between what your card received and what the standards say it should have received in points.

I'll start with a card that should be hard to beat in terms of undergrading. As you can see, this '34 Goudey Hank Greenberg rookie card only got a 1.5. However, with no creasing, wrinkles, erasures, or paper loss, according to the PSA standards, I think it should have gotten a 5.5. So in my opinion my "under" points on this card would be a whopping 4 points. Now let's see your most undergraded card, and please stick to vintage.
Is there a wrinkle across his face and nose?
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  #6  
Old 01-20-2022, 07:48 PM
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This auto is a 10 if you ask me.


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  #7  
Old 01-20-2022, 07:49 PM
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My E106 Chase is probably my best candidate, a 2 that looks like a 5 and doesn't have any issues to explain the 2 that I have been able to find.
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File Type: jpg E106 Chase a comp.jpg (77.2 KB, 801 views)
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  #8  
Old 01-20-2022, 08:15 PM
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Joe, Kamm’s signature is exquisite. Beautiful card!
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  #9  
Old 01-20-2022, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zan View Post
Is there a wrinkle across his face and nose?
There is something going on there.

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  #10  
Old 01-20-2022, 09:20 PM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobu View Post
My E106 Chase is probably my best candidate, a 2 that looks like a 5 and doesn't have any issues to explain the 2 that I have been able to find.
It looks very nice. What is that mark on the back above the O in AMERICAN CARAMEL CO? Is it a scratch?

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  #11  
Old 01-20-2022, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-2-count View Post
Joe, Kamm’s signature is exquisite. Beautiful card!
Yes and Uncle Jimmy's collection too!

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  #12  
Old 01-20-2022, 09:58 PM
robw1959 robw1959 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zan View Post
Is there a wrinkle across his face and nose?
I don't think so. It looks too straight of a line to me, like maybe a small horizontal print line there?
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  #13  
Old 01-20-2022, 10:06 PM
robw1959 robw1959 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
Greenberg seems overly punished for the toning. Paige looks correct to me
It's a thought that the card was downgraded due to toning, but I never have even considered that idea. In hand, this card looks much brighter and much less toned than the scans show. So if the downgrade was due to toning, it's quite harsh, as you say, because there just isn't that much toning on it. The borders also appear much brighter in hand.
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  #14  
Old 01-20-2022, 10:19 PM
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Still mystified by this one (of one).
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File Type: jpg T206 Drum.JPG (60.1 KB, 734 views)
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  #15  
Old 01-21-2022, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joejo20 View Post
This auto is a 10 if you ask me.
The beauty of the signature doesn't play in an auto grade. The reason it got an 8, I would say, are the gaps in the tail of the W and the m.
And that's one reason many collectors don't care about the auto grade, or will ask PSA to just put AUTO AUTH if the auto doesn't receive a 10.
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  #16  
Old 01-21-2022, 04:37 AM
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Beautiful cards that don’t deserve the lowball grade. Would be nice if the graders could put a note about why they arrived at such a grade.
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  #17  
Old 01-21-2022, 06:10 AM
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Great OG post idea! Please help me… why did Teddy get no love here? I just can’t find the flaws enough to grade this a 4. But I don’t have the eye that many of you do…

Good grade? Or did the grader just have a bad day??
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  #18  
Old 01-21-2022, 06:14 AM
Carter08 Carter08 is offline
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I’ll take Ted if you’re ever interested! The t206 drum is really confusing. Hidden paper loss?
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  #19  
Old 01-21-2022, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belfast1933 View Post
Great OG post idea! Please help me… why did Teddy get no love here? I just can’t find the flaws enough to grade this a 4.
Normally a 4 would be a great looking card with a slight crease, even under magnification tilted under a light source. But your image is way too small to tell anything. You need to repost it at a hosting website and then link the URL, rather than upload the file to the board.
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  #20  
Old 01-21-2022, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carter08 View Post
I’ll take Ted if you’re ever interested! The t206 drum is really confusing. Hidden paper loss?
Looks like a pinhole which I believe is automatically a 1.

013.jpg

013 - Copy.jpg
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  #21  
Old 01-21-2022, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
Looks like a pinhole which I believe is automatically a 1.
Used to be. More recently, pinholes are getting PSA 2s when spotted, PSA 7s when missed.
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  #22  
Old 01-21-2022, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Used to be. More recently, pinholes are getting PSA 2s when spotted, PSA 7s when missed.
LOL....
I specialize in low grade cards!!
This one should have been a 2!

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  #23  
Old 01-21-2022, 10:23 AM
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Nice card Leon.

If these cards are low grade then what I collect should grade out with negative numbers because my stuff is a wreck compared o these gems.



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  #24  
Old 01-21-2022, 10:29 AM
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Great cards and great threads.

I am not sure if any of mine is that far off. Mine look to be within my thought of grades
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  #25  
Old 01-21-2022, 10:47 AM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
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Default Really??

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Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Used to be. More recently, pinholes are getting PSA 2s when spotted, PSA 7s when missed.
Can you post a recently graded example with anything higher than a 1? That policy is/was so arbitrary as cards with significant corner wear or paper loss arguably are missing more cardboard than those with a pin or staple hole and many (like the pictured example and the previously posted Drum back have far superior eye appeal!)
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File Type: jpg IMG_20211110_0013(0).jpg (75.9 KB, 608 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20211110_0014(0).jpg (77.2 KB, 610 views)
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  #26  
Old 01-21-2022, 10:51 AM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Used to be. More recently, pinholes are getting PSA 2s when spotted, PSA 7s when missed.
Yeah, graders have a bad day when they miss a defect, not when they find one.

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  #27  
Old 01-21-2022, 10:54 AM
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Soon as PSA starts giving out PH qualifiers, this is an immediate crackout

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcv123 View Post
Can you post a recently graded example with anything higher than a 1? That policy is/was so arbitrary as cards with significant corner wear or paper loss arguably are missing more cardboard than those with a pin or staple hole and many (like the pictured example and the previously posted Drum back have far superior eye appeal!)
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  #28  
Old 01-21-2022, 10:58 AM
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Wow @ that auto. Inkwell for days

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Originally Posted by joejo20 View Post


This auto is a 10 if you ask me.


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  #29  
Old 01-21-2022, 10:59 AM
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Multiple horizontal creases

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Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
Greenberg seems overly punished for the toning. Paige looks correct to me
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  #30  
Old 01-21-2022, 11:17 AM
robw1959 robw1959 is offline
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That's an incredible looking 2!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobu View Post
My E106 Chase is probably my best candidate, a 2 that looks like a 5 and doesn't have any issues to explain the 2 that I have been able to find.
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  #31  
Old 01-21-2022, 11:29 AM
robw1959 robw1959 is offline
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Originally Posted by lowpopper View Post
Multiple horizontal creases
I don't know about that. What are you seeing that I am not seeing?
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  #32  
Old 01-21-2022, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robw1959 View Post
I don't know about that. What are you seeing that I am not seeing?
I can't say for sure that they are wrinkles but that's what they look like and what I think Greg probably sees.

012.jpg

Last edited by Pat R; 01-21-2022 at 11:36 AM.
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  #33  
Old 01-21-2022, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robw1959 View Post
Here's a fun post. In a salute to the "new" grading standards that we have all experienced as buyers and sellers, please post the card that you think is the most severely undergraded, and give your opinion of how many points under the norm it received. I'm not asking you to create your own grading standards; just go with what has already been established for the reputable grading companies over the long term, compare your graded card to those standards, and subtract the difference between what your card received and what the standards say it should have received in points.

I'll start with a card that should be hard to beat in terms of undergrading. As you can see, this '34 Goudey Hank Greenberg rookie card only got a 1.5. However, with no creasing, wrinkles, erasures, or paper loss, according to the PSA standards, I think it should have gotten a 5.5. So in my opinion my "under" points on this card would be a whopping 4 points. Now let's see your most undergraded card, and please stick to vintage.
When I see a nice looking 1.5, I immediately look for the crease / wrinkle. Almost always the reason, in my experience. I think that I see one horizontally across Greenberg's face, matching with others observations. I love 1.5's like this, great looking card for a nice discount!
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  #34  
Old 01-21-2022, 11:38 AM
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That, and the stuff between American and Leagues look to me to be standard card patina - not marks or scratches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorditadogg View Post
It looks very nice. What is that mark on the back above the O in AMERICAN CARAMEL CO? Is it a scratch?

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  #35  
Old 01-21-2022, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcv123 View Post
Can you post a recently graded example with anything higher than a 1?
I know a few years ago I probably saw 5 different cards with pinholes get PSA 2s. I went back on Net54's search and couldn't locate images. I will check blowout next, and if not, keep an eye out for them in the future.

Here was the PSA 7 case I joked about. Too bad the images have aged out.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...light=pinholes
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  #36  
Old 01-21-2022, 11:54 AM
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I feel this is at least one grade too low.
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File Type: jpg T206 Rube Marquard SGC40 Front.jpg (77.6 KB, 578 views)
File Type: jpg T206 Rube Marquard SGC40 Back.jpg (78.0 KB, 577 views)
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  #37  
Old 01-21-2022, 12:39 PM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
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Reverse grading is also fun. I don't know if you can see the crease that goes through this card, from Yogi's hands through Hank's chest and then under Mick's chin. Even without the crease, that is a lot of corner wear for a 4.
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  #38  
Old 01-21-2022, 01:41 PM
robw1959 robw1959 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
I can't say for sure that they are wrinkles but that's what they look like and what I think Greg probably sees.

Attachment 498732
Probably light scratches there, except for the straight horizontal line across his face, which I think is a tiny print line.
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  #39  
Old 01-21-2022, 03:51 PM
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As a variation hound, this PSA 4 card has bothered me forever. It looked like the best one I had (centering aside, obviously, which is a tiny bit better than it looks, because the plastic border is blocking a bit of the white), so it was the first one sent in for grading. The PSA 6 is included for comparison purposes...

1969PiratesRookies567noblackoutlinePSAfaded.jpg

I still can't for the life of me understand how it got tossed into the VG pit!! That usually indicates a crease or wrinkle, but there is none. The only anomaly I can detect is a very tiny straight line 'indent' in the gloss (visible by tilting it in the light) that was undoubtedly just a part of the printing. Corners are epically sharp, back is fine, so I guess it's time to stop using my blacklight to illuminate my Hendrix posters and put it to work seeing if there's something somewhere that my human eye is unable to detect.
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  #40  
Old 01-21-2022, 04:13 PM
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Look at the left-to-right centering. I think that's what probably limited the grade because otherwise, I think it looks as good as or even better than the 6.
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  #41  
Old 01-21-2022, 04:14 PM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robw1959 View Post
Probably light scratches there, except for the straight horizontal line across his face, which I think is a tiny print line.
It's so hard to tell from a picture what is really going on, but it looks like there is another line going from Hank's right ear to the top of his lip. And there is a "W" on his right cheek.
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Old 01-21-2022, 04:16 PM
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This one might be a grade or so low.....

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Old 01-21-2022, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
I can't say for sure that they are wrinkles but that's what they look like and what I think Greg probably sees.

Attachment 498732
Yes, I see multiple wrinkles as well. There might be another at the top border that runs down and through the D is his hat.
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Old 01-21-2022, 04:27 PM
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This one might be a grade or so low.....


Wow - that card looks amazing & looks better than some 3’s I have seen…


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Old 01-21-2022, 04:46 PM
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The very light tape stain on the back kept this at a PSA 2. I have seen PSA 5’s that don’t look near as nice.




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Old 01-21-2022, 05:29 PM
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Look at the left-to-right centering. I think that's what probably limited the grade because otherwise, I think it looks as good as or even better than the 6.
Yeah, absolutely. That's certainly true, but this was submitted with qualifiers allowed, so I was expecting/hoping for a 7+ OC. But a four?? That drops it from 'no creases/wrinkles' to 'with creases/wrinkles,' I believe, since there aren't any issues present that would drop it that far without creases/wrinkles being present.
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Old 01-21-2022, 05:44 PM
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there aren't any issues present that would drop it that far without creases/wrinkles being present.
Maybe they thought that the printing discoloration on the bottom left (faded orange field) was some kind of surface wear rather than just a printing defect.
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Old 01-21-2022, 07:01 PM
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The very light tape stain on the back kept this at a PSA 2. I have seen PSA 5’s that don’t look as nice.


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Definitely a nice 2.

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Old 01-21-2022, 08:33 PM
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Wow - that card looks amazing & looks better than some 3’s I have seen…


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Old 01-21-2022, 08:35 PM
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Maybe they thought that the printing discoloration on the bottom left (faded orange field) was some kind of surface wear rather than just a printing defect.
It's virtually identical to the PSA 6 in coloring, etc., and no surface wear. They were printed that way. It's gotta be something hidden in the blacklight.
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