1967 Laughlin B/W World Series Assistance Needed

[JollyElm]

Hey, if anyone has pics or scans of these three specific 1967 Laughlin World Series cards, could you please post them here? I'm involved in some pretty cool research about this set, and would like to get my eyes on multiple examples of these particular cards, if anyone has them to show.

I know it's a tough ask, as it's not a heavily collected set, but the more the merrier. Please post 'em if you got 'em.

I'm only looking for versions WITH the address on back, not the reprint version(s) where it was removed:

1905 Giants vs. A's featuring Christy 'Matty' Mathewson
1916 Dodgers vs. Red Sox featuring Babe Ruth
1920 Indians vs. Dodgers featuring 'Wamby'

Thank you!

[JollyElm]

Can anybody else help, and post pics of one or both of these cards? I got a scan via e-mail, but would like to see many more, if possible.

[cannonballsun]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Can anybody else help, and post pics of one or both of these cards? I got a scan via e-mail, but would like to see many more, if possible.

I have a set, but I'm not sure where I stuck it, in my completely disorganized collection.
I'll see if I can find it.

[cannonballsun]

Originally Posted by cannonballsun

I have a set, but I'm not sure where I stuck it, in my completely disorganized collection.
I'll see if I can find it.

Whether my set is the original or a reprint, I can't say. I didn't know there was a reprint.
I bought my set on eBay about 15 years ago.

[JollyElm]

On the back of the cards, check to see if his address (18 Engle St. Tenafly, NJ) appears under the 1967 "R. G. Laughlin" copyright info. The general rule of thumb is the 'original' cards included his address and the reprints omitted it, but my research is bringing up some interesting questions of whether or not later reprinting(s) did indeed feature his address before it was ultimately eliminated for good.

[toppcat]

This may not be helpful, 10/4/74 Sports Collectors News but it is neat:

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by toppcat

This may not be helpful, 10/4/74 Sports Collectors News but it is neat:

Thanks for posting that. Do you know if that same, specific graphic was used in earlier ads?

Going against conventional wisdom, my research forces me to theorize that when these cards were first reprinted, they did indeed have the address on back before it was eliminated for good. Don't know if this was close to 1967, or many years later, but something appears to be up.

If anyone has copies of the 1905 Matty card, with or without address, I'd like to see those, too.

It's like I've fallen into a black hole...and I don't know if I'll ever get out.

[mikemb]

Here is my 1905 card w/o address.

Mike

[cannonballsun]

Right now there is a complete set on EBay (with address) in sheet form. Only some of the backs are posted, and the resolution isn't too great
I you asked for better scans, perhaps he might oblige.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Thanks for posting that. Do you know if that same, specific graphic was used in earlier ads?

Going against conventional wisdom, my research forces me to theorize that when these cards were first reprinted, they did indeed have the address on back before it was eliminated for good. Don't know if this was close to 1967, or many years later, but something appears to be up.

If anyone has copies of the 1905 Matty card, with or without address, I'd like to see those, too.

It's like I've fallen into a black hole...and I don't know if I'll ever get out.

I found two more pieces of the puzzle but no real answers. First one is July 1972 Trader Speaks (two months earlier the Greatest Feats set was advertised on its own). SCN had the bigger ad on 5/23/75.

[JollyElm]

Let me provide some insight into why I asked that question. There is a clear difference between the original version of the card and the later reprint version. I've created this animated gif to illustrate it. The original features much more room at the left edge, and a little extra space on the right side and at the bottom where the lines of his shirt show (the reprint version has those areas cropped tighter)...



The ad you posted shows the original, not the reprint version of the Feller card, so the question needs to be asked. In 1974, was Laughlin selling reprints of the original cards from 1967 (with the address on back), or was he selling the new, slightly revised cards without the address on them?? It's possible, and perhaps probable, that in creating the ad, he simply used a pic of the original Feller card he had on hand, instead of a pic of the newfangled version, since they are essentially the same card. There's no way to know.

On a side note, each Feller that I have seen so far with the address on back has the wider borders on it, and every reprint I have seen has the cropped borders, but (and this is a big but) I would not yet rule out that some of the cropped border cards may have the address on back. I haven't seen enough examples of the card to make a definitive conclusion. The sample size is too small.

[DVCARDS]

I bought the reprint (w/o address) from Laughlin many years ago. In the 11/5/2004 Sports Collectors Digest there was an article about the World Series cards. I made a note about how there were 2 black and white variations. One was a standard issue. The other and tougher set contained his address. So the article must have been wrong - the standard was actually the reprint?

[toppcat]

You may need the original mailers with cards to figure this out.

[laughlinfan]

I would like to point out that these would really be reissues, as opposed to reprints, especially since reprints have a very negative connotation, and are usually done without permission of the original producer of the set, and I have never seen a "reprint" of any of Bob's sets.

I loved picking up Bob's Inside Pitch newsletters several years ago. You get to hear a lot of information in Bob's own "voice" and you get to feel like you know him a little bit. Highly recommend picking them up if you see them. And not just because they contain the scarcest (two card) set that Bob produced!

Again, although I don't really like him calling subsequent printings of his sets reprints, Bob did talk about them using that term. This is the information that I have always used on Bob's black and white set, from Bob in 1976:

[JollyElm]

Hey Marty,
I can only speak for myself, but there isn't even an ounce of judgment in my use of the term "reprint" here. I am simply using it colloquially to refer to additional printings. Nothing more.

It was interesting reading the article you posted. Since I have discovered no fewer than ten cards (so far) from the set that have distinct differences in the artwork/layout, I wish I was closer to determining when the printings took place. Since the variations match the (later) 'no address' versions of the cards, there are two possibilities. Either Mr. Laughlin made changes to the artwork, and then printed the cards again (sometime after 1967) with the address on them, and at some point (1974?) printed them again after removing the address from the back...or he changed the artwork in the middle of the original printing of the cards, and perhaps had no additional reissues until the 1974 date. Both examples leave two versions of the ten 'with address' cards I mentioned. I wish I had a time machine so I could go back and ask him exactly when those changes to the graphics were made, but unless I win mega-millions on Tuesday, a time machine is probably still out of my price range. Oh well.

[JollyElm]

I am sure I'm just swimming against the tide here, but would now welcome anyone to post scans of ANY 1967 Laughlin World Series cards you have.

There's only one rule. Please indicate which cards have the address on back, and which cards do not.

[mikemb]

Here is my set of cards. They all do not have the address on the back.

Let me know if you need scans of any particular card(s).

Mike

[JollyElm]

Thanks, Mike!!

How cool does the entire set look all together like that!! Frickin' awesome!!

Anyone else got scans to share? Would love to see anything you got.

[blackandgold]

Darren, my only example, with the address on the back :

0E871041-F0F4-4F5B-A0C4-07E88D59D3DA.jpg

[JollyElm]

Please, if anyone has more scans to show (just specify whether or not they have the address on back), post them. I have made some great progress with my research, but I undoubtedly need more examples (have seen everything on ebay) to look at. Please help a guy out.

[aronbenabe]

With addresses on the back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JollyElm]

Those are awesome. Thank you!!

[JollyElm]

Still desperate for help. Don't be shy, show what-chu got, please!!!!!!

[JollyElm]

Once more unto the breach, dear collectors, once more...

[blackandgold]

Darren, just got this one, no address.
80C72C7F-F090-463C-A905-3C18EC72E27D.jpg

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by blackandgold

Darren, just got this one, no address.
Attachment 407848

That one always cracks me up. Visually, it looks like the Yanks crushed the Pirates, but we all (especially you Bucs fans!!) know how that one ended. Thanks for posting it (and the other one with the address from before).

[JollyElm]

Anybody else have some cards to show??

[toppcat]

No but found this in the Oct. 1970 issue of The Ballcard Collector. I guess there may well have only been 300 of the original set issued:

[JollyElm]

I know I'm barking up the wrong tree (in fact, I'm sure said tree has already been chopped down and sent to the Ikea factory to be processed into an 'easily' assembled hutch), but can anyone else help here?? Need to see pics, either with address or without address.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I know I'm barking up the wrong tree (in fact, I'm sure said tree has already been chopped down and sent to the Ikea factory to be processed into an 'easily' assembled hutch), but can anyone else help here?? Need to see pics, either with address or without address.

I don't have anything further but "I'm sure said tree has already been chopped down and sent to the Ikea factory to be processed into an 'easily' assembled hutch" might be the funniest thing I've seen this month!

[Kevvyg1026]

1916 card1916_F.jpg

1916_B.jpg

[JollyElm]

Bump.

Still hoping against hope to see some more examples (that aren't already on ebay) of cards with or without the address on back. Anyone have some scans to post?

[rhettyeakley]

Darren, here is my complete set set 1903-1967 with no address on back.




I have 4 cards with the address in addition to the above set, I think 2 of these may have been ad cards written on by Laughlin himself for display at shows or something? ...

[toppcat]

Laughlin had part interest in a retail card shop in NJ for a spell IIRC, I'd imagine that's where the hand written ones were displayed. That's a neat bit of Laughlin history there Rhett.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Darren, here is my complete set set 1903-1967 with no address on back.

I have 4 cards with the address in addition to the above set, I think 2 of these may have been ad cards written on by Laughlin himself for display at shows or something? ...

Not to look a hobbled gift horse in the mouth, but do you have decent sized scans showing all of the individual cards separately, like your last pair of images?

[toppcat]

Looks like Laughlin did some NYC area conventions back in the 70's, so those handwritten notes could have been from his table as well.

[TCMA]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Laughlin had part interest in a retail card shop in NJ for a spell IIRC, I'd imagine that's where the hand written ones were displayed. That's a neat bit of Laughlin history there Rhett.

Sports Nostalgia in Upper Saddle River, NJ.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JollyElm]

It's been a long time, so thought I'd give it a bump to see if anyone has any scans to show...

[JollyElm]

You know how a lot of these cards were stacked on top of each other and glued together by Mr. Laughlin as a way to thicken them? The separated ones always have that nasty looking, dried-up glue slathered on one side. Here's a screengrab of what I'm talking about...

s-l1600-19.jpg

That's how I always see them. Does anyone have cards (or pics) where they still remain pasted together...or have they all come apart over the last half century plus??

[bobsbbcards]

[bobsbbcards]

None of them have the address on back.

[Rich Klein]

I just checked the COMC database and we have had (currently just one available) these cards:

1922 and 1926 (they have been sold)

1939 is available but the seller has not yet priced the card.

Interesting thing to note so now it's added to the few cards with the address noted. If we get more, that's a footprint for future listings.

Rich

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I just checked the COMC database and we have had (currently just one available) these cards:

1922 and 1926 (they have been sold)

1939 is available but the seller has not yet priced the card.

Interesting thing to note so now it's added to the few cards with the address noted. If we get more, that's a footprint for future listings.

Rich

This is where collecting enters a weird gray area. If you add a notation about the address to the listings, then it sorta screws over people like me who are always looking for these cards. I can't even begin to tell you how much time I've put into researching this set. PSA doesn't even distinguish between the 'with' and 'without address' cards on their labels, so I say (please) leave it be.

Side note to Bob: Thanks for posting those! I'm keeping a running database of images from the set(s), so it's nice to have even more examples.

Edited to add: Of course, as soon as I posted this **POOF!** the images disappeared. Hopefully, they'll return. Update: they're back.

[bobsbbcards]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Edited to add: Of course, as soon as I posted this **POOF!** the images disappeared. Hopefully, they'll return.

They're still there for me, so let me know if you still can't see them. I can't imagine why they would wander off, since they're on my Google Drive.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

This is where collecting enters a weird gray area. If you add a notation about the address to the listings, then it sorta screws over people like me who are always looking for these cards. I can't even begin to tell you how much time I've put into researching this set. PSA doesn't even distinguish between the 'with' and 'without address' cards on their labels, so I say (please) leave it be.

Side note to Bob: Thanks for posting those! I'm keeping a running database of images from the set(s), so it's nice to have even more examples.

Edited to add: Of course, as soon as I posted this **POOF!** the images disappeared. Hopefully, they'll return. Update: they're back.

Just because PSA has not recognized it does not mean we should not recognize that at COMC. Once information is available, one of my responsibilities is to provide that to our users. And there are plenty of people on this board who do appreciate when I add said information.

But keeping something a secret once it's known publicly is no longer possible.

Rich

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Just because PSA has not recognized it does not mean we should not recognize that at COMC. Once information is available, one of my responsibilities is to provide that to our users. And there are plenty of people on this board who do appreciate when I add said information.

But keeping something a secret once it's known publicly is no longer possible.

Rich

Yes, DUH. I was being facetious, trying to keep it in the bag a little while longer. Thought that was pretty obvious.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Yes, DUH. I was being facetious, trying to keep it in the bag a little while longer. Thought that was pretty obvious.

My apologies for not realizing you were being facetious. Way back in the day, many dealers kept those secrets to themselves so I used that experience for my erroneous comment

Rich