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  #1101  
Old 11-13-2020, 01:29 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by t206fanatic View Post
I'm the current owner of the Ted / David Jennings, and I agree its a different card than the SGC60 Pat posted.
Congratulations Jeff....for winning my AB 460 Jennings.

I will reiterate.....when I originally acquired this card years ago, it was unique.


TED Z

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  #1102  
Old 11-13-2020, 01:41 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


....Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont_____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards_____ Sovereign…. American Beauty .…. UZIT


[/B]This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 821.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards

Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run

Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #951 >> 961.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #962 >> 984.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)

Posts #985 >> 1000....... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1001 >> 1002..... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1004 >> 1034.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Posts #1035 >> 1050.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top

Posts #1051 >> 1066.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top

Posts #1068 >> 1070.....Imagine the T206 guys come alive, great read about the 1904 season

Posts #1071 >> 1086....."pet peeves" regarding certain T206's...and tell us of your's ?

Posts #1087 >> 1100.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Posts #1101 >> 1150.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Posts #1151 >> 1152.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Last edited by tedzan; 02-06-2021 at 05:54 PM. Reason: Updated INDEX.
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  #1103  
Old 11-13-2020, 01:44 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie73 View Post
I believe these are my only one of one's so far.

T206 Nap Lajoie With Bat - Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 "No Print"



T206 Jack Powell - Old Mill "Blue Ink" Back




Ron

Two really great cards, thanks for posting them.


I'll continue playing this game by posting a Blank Back and a Blank Front (caption).

Unless some one proves otherwise, I think this Mullaney and No Name Ryan are unique.....


.



PIEDMONT 350 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . OLD MILL



TED Z

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  #1104  
Old 11-13-2020, 06:02 PM
t206fanatic's Avatar
t206fanatic t206fanatic is offline
Jeff Willi@ms
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The one card I can contribute to the thread.
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  #1105  
Old 11-13-2020, 06:41 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Hey Jeff

Great....I was wondering about who ended up with this Schulte anomaly from David Hall's set.

I refer to it as a printing anomaly, because I cannot classify it as an "Elite 11" subject until an El Principe de Gales card of this Schulte surfaces.

Whatever....I'll match you....and, raise you one....


. .



TED Z

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  #1106  
Old 11-13-2020, 07:40 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Here is my favorite one of a kind T206 cards in my collection. There are several reasons why this McGraw
is my favorite unique card. And, this is the most significant one......

. . . . . . .


As rare as the UZIT cards are, the most difficult ones to find are in the group I refer to as the Exclusive 12
in the 460-only Series.
To date, only 5* of these 12 subjects have been discovered with the UZIT back.



Crandall (cap) *
Devore
Duffy
Ford
Gandil
Geyer *
Hummel *
McGraw (glove at hip) *
Pfeffer
Sheckard (glove) *
Tannehill (Chicago)
Wheat

Furthermore (and it's been a 40-year search), only a single UZIT example of 4 of these five Exclusive 12
subjects has been confirmed. Geyer has 2 examples known.
WOW ! ....is that scarcity, or what ?


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
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Last edited by tedzan; 11-13-2020 at 08:21 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #1107  
Old 11-14-2020, 10:07 AM
Mac927 Mac927 is offline
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How about the "ONLY KNOWN" T206 that is a TRUE " NO NAME/NO TEAM/NO JERSEY LETTERING in EXISTENCE!

This did come out of a cigarette pack back in 1910. Came from a private Collection of over 250 T206 cards. Opened Piedmont tobacco packs and all were in the Collection. This card was the only anomaly!

I have challenged others to prove me wrong with photos of other T206 cards that are similar. I haven't SEEN one yet! Here is another Chance!

Show them Boys!
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  #1108  
Old 11-14-2020, 05:15 PM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac927 View Post
How about the "ONLY KNOWN" T206 that is a TRUE " NO NAME/NO TEAM/NO JERSEY LETTERING in EXISTENCE!

This did come out of a cigarette pack back in 1910. Came from a private Collection of over 250 T206 cards. Opened Piedmont tobacco packs and all were in the Collection. This card was the only anomaly!

I have challenged others to prove me wrong with photos of other T206 cards that are similar. I haven't SEEN one yet! Here is another Chance!

Show them Boys!
It looks like it's just missing the Brown color pass. But why is the back of the card so white looking? Is it just a scanner setting?
__________________
Ron - Uncle Nacki

T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki
T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524
T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258
COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28
NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Polar Bear 245/250
Sovereign 460 50/52
Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34
Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11

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  #1109  
Old 11-14-2020, 06:35 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds)....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Thanks to Toby (bigfish), I completed this AMERICAN BEAUTY - BROAD LEAF - CYCLE - DRUM sub-set. I acquired this DRUM
card of Frank Delahanty from Toby back in 2007 at the Philly (Reading) Show. Delahanty is my favorite T206 Minor Leaguer.

I haven't seen another Delahanty DRUM card since 2007. PSA pop report lists none, and the last time I looked, neither does
SGC. Therefore, until some one reports he has one (or knows of one), I consider this Delahanty DRUM card unique.



.


TED Z

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  #1110  
Old 11-15-2020, 04:22 AM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
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SGC does have one in their pop reports but it is the one you have. It was in
the holder when it sold in the 2007 Hunt auction that had all the Drums in
it. Did you crack it out of the SGC slab?

651.jpg
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  #1111  
Old 11-15-2020, 05:57 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
SGC does have one in their pop reports but it is the one you have. It was in
the holder when it sold in the 2007 Hunt auction that had all the Drums in
it. Did you crack it out of the SGC slab?

Attachment 426129
That is the same card.

When I bought this Delahanty card from Toby at the Reading Philly Show it was in an SGC "A" holder.

Cards which I acquire that are "keepers", I crack them out of their capsules and store them in high quality Mylar.



TED Z

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  #1112  
Old 11-16-2020, 04:06 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Is there a T206 "proof cards" check-list....so, we can see if this Puttman card is unique (or not) ?






TED Z

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  #1113  
Old 11-18-2020, 07:03 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

This yellow-brown "scrap" of Doolan may be a one of a kind T206. I am posting it here to see if any one else has one.







Showing off the remainder of this Doolan run......this image is my favorite action pose.
I need his BROAD LEAF 350 card to complete this run. Any help is greatly appreciated.

. .



Sweet Cap, Fact. #25






Furthermore, I would be remiss if I didn't include this "mega beauty"

.



TED Z

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  #1114  
Old 11-20-2020, 06:11 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Mike Donlin yellow-brown "scrap"

"Turkey Mike" was quite a character. He was the "Talk of the Town" in New York City. Not only for his BB prowess, but also his vaudeville
performances (with his wife) on Broadway. Mike would have been a "contender" for the BB Hall of Fame with his career BA = .333 and a
Slugging Avg. = .468 (higher than many stars in the Deadball Era), if he had just devoted more of his time to BB.
Any given time when the TCM channel is featuring Silent Movies, there is a good chance you'll see Donlin in the cast. He was featured in
53 movies. The most notable ones being "The General" and "Slide Kelly Slide".

Just a simple explanation why Mike Donlin is one of my favorite T206's. Especially, his batting pose in the white-bordered tobacco cards.
Here is a partial run which I will be working on for quite some time to complete.

My question to any of you is....is the yellow-brown "scrap" in my run a unique card ? I haven't seen another such Donlin; however, there
are quite a number of T206 yellow-brown scraps in circulation in the hobby. I appreciate your response.


. .
PIEDMONT #42








. .
.


TED Z
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  #1115  
Old 11-21-2020, 06:30 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Well, no new responses here, so I'll post another one of my possible "one of a kind" T206's.....this printing anomaly of Carl Lundgren.

In 1984, Barry Sloate introduced me to the "world" of rare T206 front/back combos, by selling me this Lundgren with the EPDG back.
This was the beginning of an an obsession that continues with me till this day. I completed it's back run (only 3 cards needed). And, I
have included the color-error (missing blue ink) of Lundgren, since I I think this card may be a unique T206.
Perhaps another one may exist, so if you have one, please post it here.



.



TED Z

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  #1116  
Old 11-21-2020, 06:57 PM
stutor stutor is offline
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Always love seeing this thread. I’m not certain of this is 1/1, but it’s pretty cool IMO.
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  #1117  
Old 11-21-2020, 09:35 PM
MVSNYC MVSNYC is offline
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Sonny, great Matty BB!
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  #1118  
Old 11-21-2020, 11:52 PM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
Ron Kornacki - Uncle Nacki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
"Turkey Mike" was quite a character. He was the "Talk of the Town" in New York City. Not only for his BB prowess, but also his vaudeville
performances (with his wife) on Broadway. Mike would have been a "contender" for the BB Hall of Fame with his career BA = .333 and a
Slugging Avg. = .468 (higher than many stars in the Deadball Era), if he had just devoted more of his time to BB.
Any given time when the TCM channel is featuring Silent Movies, there is a good chance you'll see Donlin in the cast. He was featured in
53 movies. The most notable ones being "The General" and "Slide Kelly Slide".

Just a simple explanation why Mike Donlin is one of my favorite T206's. Especially, his batting pose in the white-bordered tobacco cards.
Here is a partial run which I will be working on for quite some time to complete.

My question to any of you is....is the yellow-brown "scrap" in my run a unique card ? I haven't seen another such Donlin; however, there
are quite a number of T206 yellow-brown scraps in circulation in the hobby. I appreciate your response.


. .
PIEDMONT #42








. .
.


TED Z
Hi Ted, I've been trying to follow the "Yellow/Brown" scrap cards for as long as I've been searching and studying the full color "No Prints". Since they are both in the same category, Group A and Group B, both missing their Overprint Scroll and covering the Factory 30 and replacing it with the Factory 42 Overprint. The only thing is I don't count the 6 Super Prints because they were printed with the Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 backs. All the other cards from Group A and B were never meant to exist with the Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 backs.

Your Mike Donlin With Bat is the only one I've seen. I try to save all images of these Yellow/Brown scraps as they come along and get listed.


GROUP "A" 29 Hand-Cut Yellow/Brown Color (Scrap - Not Issued) Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 back (This Front/Back combo was never issued in tobacco products).

I'm missing the following scans/images of the following Yellow/Brown Scraps. Any help with a scan or picture would be appreciated.

FRANK HOME RUN BAKER (I have a scan but I don't believe it to be a Yellow/Brown)
PATSY DOUGHERTY - ARM IN AIR
RED KLEINOW - BOSTON - CATCHING
NAP RUCKER - THROWING



GROUP "B" 28 Hand-Cut Full Color (Scrap - Not Issued) Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 back (This Front/Back combo was never issued in tobacco products).

This 28 card set I personally own and can share scans of any of the 28 cards when requested.



GROUP "C" or "Super Prints" 6 Hand-Cut Yellow/Brown Color (Scrap - Not Issued) Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 back (This Front/Back combo was issued in tobacco products, but only the full color non scrap version of the cards).

I'm missing the following scans/images of the following Yellow/Brown Scraps. Any help with a scan or picture would be appreciated.

HAL CHASE - BLACK CAP
TY COBB - PORTRAIT RED



Thank you in advance for the help that anyone can provide to my missing scans collection. I would really like to put together a complete Yellow/Brown Subset. It would go great with my 28 card "No Print" set. Because these sheets of cards were literally stacked side by side, waiting for their Factory Overprint to be added. The only difference was the "Group B" cards were ready for their overprint and then be cut into singles, but someone grabbed a few sheets before that happened and most likely brought them home for the kids to cut up and play with. The "Group A" Yellow/Brown scraps were likely taken straight from the trash can and brought home, maybe by the same person. We will never know. The 6 Super Print scraps are interesting but because that exact front/back combo was made and inserted into packs, they are missing that specialness I crave.
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T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524
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COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28
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Polar Bear 245/250
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  #1119  
Old 11-22-2020, 12:00 AM
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Wow Sonny!! You have some serious Mattys. That is a great blank back
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  #1120  
Old 11-22-2020, 12:08 AM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
Wow Sonny!! You have some serious Mattys. That is a great blank back
I agree with that!! Of all the Matty poses in the T206 set, the Dark Cap is my least favorite. But it's just something kinda magical when it has a Blank Back attached to it. It puts my 3 (Polar Bear, Sovereign 460, and Tolstoi) to shame.
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T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524
T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258
COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28
NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Polar Bear 245/250
Sovereign 460 50/52
Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34
Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11

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  #1121  
Old 11-22-2020, 11:43 AM
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I do not think there is a Dougherty, my theory it was swapped out with Ames....just a theory though

Here are the 34 I think make for the y/bs, I have scans of 33, missing Chase black cap.

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  #1122  
Old 11-22-2020, 01:32 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atx840 View Post
I do not think there is a Dougherty, my theory it was swapped out with Ames....just a theory though

Here are the 34 I think make for the y/bs, I have scans of 33, missing Chase black cap.




Hi ole buddy,

I cannot agree with you regarding Dougherty, simply because all 35 of these guys were printed with a trio of correlated backs....BROAD LEAF 460, red HINDU, and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42.
Just because he is missing in the collection of yellow-brown cards, does not mean he was not printed with this group of 35. You also have a missing Chase (dark cap), and we know he was printed.


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  #1123  
Old 11-22-2020, 03:29 PM
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Hey Ted, good to see you posting.

I have never seen an Ames Red Hindu or BL460, would love to see scans.

My theory is that the group I listed was printed with Ames and then at one point printed with Dougherty in its place. Some backs were printed with both cards and some backs after the swap and do not include the Ames.

just a theory
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  #1124  
Old 11-22-2020, 06:40 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Originally Posted by atx840 View Post
Hey Ted, good to see you posting.

I have never seen an Ames Red Hindu or BL460, would love to see scans.

My theory is that the group I listed was printed with Ames and then at one point printed with Dougherty in its place. Some backs were printed with both cards and some backs after the swap and do not include the Ames.

just a theory

Chris

I understand your theory; however, why would ALC replace Dougherty with Ames ?

Dougherty played for the White Sox 1906 - 1911. Ames pitched for the Giants from 1903 to 1913. I do NOT see any logical reason for American
Lithographic (ALC) replacing Dougherty with Ames in their 1910 press runs.

Ames is not the only subject that has yet to be found with red HINDU or BL 460 backs. Checkout this pattern....35 subjects in the 350/460 series
that were printed with SWEET CAP Factory #42 were also printed with BL 460 and red HINDU backs. No other 350/460 series subjects conform to
this pattern. Ames has been confirmed with the SWEET CAP Factory #42 back; therefore, he was also printed with BL 460 and red HINDU backs.
I'll predict that Ames will be eventually found with the BL 460 and red HINDU backs.
Before you care to take my bet on this happening, I'll remind you.....I'm batting 1.000 with such type of T206 predictions.


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Last edited by tedzan; 11-23-2020 at 11:50 AM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #1125  
Old 11-23-2020, 09:12 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post

Chris

I understand your theory; however, why would ALC replace Dougherty with Ames ?

Dougherty played for the White Sox 1906 - 1911. Ames pitched for the Giants from 1903 to 1913. I do NOT see any logical reason for American
Lithographic (ALC) replacing Dougherty with Ames in their 1910 press runs.

Ames is not the only subject that has yet to be found with red HINDU or BL 460 backs. Checkout this pattern....35 subjects in the 350/460 series
that were printed with SWEET CAP Factory #42 were also printed with BL 460 and red HINDU backs. No other 350/460 series subjects conform to
this pattern. Ames has been confirmed with the SWEET CAP Factory #42 back; therefore, he was also printed with BL 460 and red HINDU backs.
I'll predict that Ames will be eventually found with the BL 460 and red HINDU backs.
Before you care to take my bet on this happening, I'll remind you.....I'm batting 1.000 with such type of T206 predictions.

Chris

While we are trading theories, "dig this one"......my theory is that these 35 subjects were on a sheet of multiples of a 36-card arrangement with the RED Cobb DOUBLE-PRINTED.

Proof of this theory can be found in Pop Report data which indicates that the RED Cobb has approximately twice as many SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 counts than any
of the other 34 subjects.


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Last edited by tedzan; 11-23-2020 at 11:42 AM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #1126  
Old 11-24-2020, 07:50 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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OK, continuing playing this game of "Unique Antique" cards, here's my 1910 COUPON Matty McIntyre.

This card is the only one listed in the PSA pop report. The last time I looked at the SGC pop report on
these COUPON cards there were no Matty McIntyre's listed.

Perhaps, Rob McK. will chime in, since he has a near complete set of these rare gems.


.



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  #1127  
Old 11-28-2020, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Chris

While we are trading theories, "dig this one"......my theory is that these 35 subjects were on a sheet of multiples of a 36-card arrangement with the RED Cobb DOUBLE-PRINTED.

Proof of this theory can be found in Pop Report data which indicates that the RED Cobb has approximately twice as many SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 counts than any
of the other 34 subjects.


TED Z

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Here are the current pop numbers for the 35 subjects with a SC350-460/42

SC350-460 42 pop numbers.jpg
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  #1128  
Old 11-28-2020, 06:01 PM
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Thank you for posting the numbers for readers to see the data. I am aware of these numbers which have been in my research for 2 1/2 years.
I update this PSA data in my records every week.

As I said in Post # 1125, in this SWEET CAP 350-460, Factory #42 group of 35 subjects, apparently the Red Cobb was Double-Printed in order
to form a 36-card arrangement.


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  #1129  
Old 11-30-2020, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Thank you for posting the numbers for readers to see the data. I am aware of these numbers which have been in my research for 2 1/2 years.
I update this PSA data in my records every week.

As I said in Post # 1125, in this SWEET CAP 350-460, Factory #42 group of 35 subjects, apparently the Red Cobb was Double-Printed in order
to form a 36-card arrangement.


TED Z

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If you're basing your proof that Cobb was double printed on the pop report numbers how do you explain the wide variation in the numbers on the other super prints?
There are almost twice as many Evers (9) as there are Chase- black cap (5), almost twice as many Chance (17) as there are Evers (9), over
double the amount of Chase- blue (11) as there are Chase-black (5) and three times as many Chance (17) as Chase -black (5).
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  #1130  
Old 11-30-2020, 01:11 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
If you're basing your proof that Cobb was double printed on the pop report numbers how do you explain the wide variation in the numbers on the other super prints?
There are almost twice as many Evers (9) as there are Chase- black cap (5), almost twice as many Chance (17) as there are Evers (9), over
double the amount of Chase- blue (11) as there are Chase-black (5) and three times as many Chance (17) as Chase -black (5).

You are assuming that all 35 subjects were equally submitted for grading. THIS IS NOT SO ! And, I'm sure you know this.

A large number of T206 collectors get their Cobb, Johnson, Matty, CYoung cards GRADED. However, many T206 collectors (like me) DO NOT
bother to get their less valuable cards graded. There are many, many T206 sets (and stars and commons) that are NOT GRADED. Therefore,
comparing Cobb (or Johnson, Matty, CYoung) with the remaining cards in this Group of 35 is inconsequential.

My theory (presented approx 10 years ago), hypothesized that American Litho (ALC) divided the 63 subjects of the 350/460 series into two
groups when ALC started printing the 460-type backs.......this theory has withstood the test of time.

Group A comprises of these 35 subjects. Group B consists of the remaining 28 subjects in the 350/460 series. ALC printed sheets of T206's
with basic formats of 12, 36, 48, etc. cards.

Therefore with Group A having 35 subjects, ALC needed one more subject. The red Cobb is ATC's "signature T206" so it's a pretty good guess
that the Red Cobb was Double-Printed this format.


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  #1131  
Old 11-30-2020, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
OK, continuing playing this game of "Unique Antique" cards, here's my 1910 COUPON Matty McIntyre.

This card is the only one listed in the PSA pop report. The last time I looked at the SGC pop report on
these COUPON cards there were no Matty McIntyre's listed.

Perhaps, Rob McK. will chime in, since he has a near complete set of these rare gems.


.



TED Z

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Nice card,Ted, here is the Matty McIntyre that I have. It's raw in a cardsaver. I see one graded on psa and one on sgc. a 1.5.
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File Type: jpg t213-1mcintiyre821.jpg (47.9 KB, 380 views)
File Type: jpg t213-1mcintiyreb822.jpg (54.7 KB, 381 views)
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  #1132  
Old 11-30-2020, 07:00 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
Nice card,Ted, here is the Matty McIntyre that I have. It's raw in a cardsaver. I see one graded on psa and one on sgc. a 1.5.

Thanks, Rob

I did not really think my Matty Mack was a one of a kind card.

I have one (or two more) 1910 COUPON cards, which I suspect are not unique any more.
When I acquired them years ago they were unique. Not listed in PSA or SGC pop reports.


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  #1133  
Old 11-30-2020, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
You are assuming that all 35 subjects were equally submitted for grading. THIS IS NOT SO ! And, I'm sure you know this.

A large number of T206 collectors get their Cobb, Johnson, Matty, CYoung cards GRADED. However, many T206 collectors (like me) DO NOT
bother to get their less valuable cards graded. There are many, many T206 sets (and stars and commons) that are NOT GRADED. Therefore,
comparing Cobb (or Johnson, Matty, CYoung) with the remaining cards in this Group of 35 is inconsequential.

My theory (presented approx 10 years ago), hypothesized that American Litho (ALC) divided the 63 subjects of the 350/460 series into two
groups when ALC started printing the 460-type backs.......this theory has withstood the test of time.

Group A comprises of these 35 subjects. Group B consists of the remaining 28 subjects in the 350/460 series. ALC printed sheets of T206's
with basic formats of 12, 36, 48, etc. cards.

Therefore with Group A having 35 subjects, ALC needed one more subject. The red Cobb is ATC's "signature T206" so it's a pretty good guess
that the Red Cobb was Double-Printed this format.


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I'm not assuming that at all. I know that Cobb would be submitted
more than any of the others for grading and cracked out and resubmitted
too. If he was printed twice as much as the others subjects his pop number
should be far more than double any of the other subjects.

The sales don't reflect him being double printed either this is a list of all
of the card target sales raw and graded by all company's since 2008 for
the 35 subjects with a SC350/460 factory 42 back.

img942.jpg
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  #1134  
Old 11-30-2020, 08:03 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
I'm not assuming that at all. I know that Cobb would be submitted
more than any of the others for grading and cracked out and resubmitted
too. If he was printed twice as much as the others subjects his pop number
should be far more than double any of the other subjects.

The sales don't reflect him being double printed either this is a list of all
of the card target sales raw and graded by all company's since 2008 for
the 35 subjects with a SC350/460 factory 42 back.

Attachment 428669

Those cardtarget sales numbers are not an accurate reflection of the actual red Cobb transactions.

I've been a collector for over 40 years, and a part-time dealer for almost 40 years. I have bought, sold, traded, and graded at least 24 red Cobb's
during that time. And, that's just me..... a small time-dealer.

Furthermore, currently in my T206 collection are 7 red Cobb's (different backs). Plus, in recent years I have sold 4 red Cobb's with SWEET CAP 350-460, Factory #42 backs.

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Last edited by tedzan; 11-30-2020 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Added information.
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  #1135  
Old 11-30-2020, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Those cardtarget sales numbers are not an accurate reflection of the actual red Cobb transactions.

I've been a collector for over 40 years, and a part-time dealer for almost 40 years. I have bought, sold, traded, and graded at least 24 red Cobb's
during that time. And, that's just me..... a small time-dealer.

Furthermore, currently in my T206 collection are 7 red Cobb's (different backs). Plus, in recent years I have sold 4 red Cobb's with SWEET CAP 350-460, Factory #42 backs.

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Card target doesn't record all sales but it does record most of the auction
house and ebay sales. It recorded the sale of the McIntyre you posted when it sold earlier this year.

McIntyre T213.jpg

Last edited by Pat R; 12-01-2020 at 08:33 AM.
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  #1136  
Old 12-01-2020, 06:10 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
Card target doesn't record all sales but it does record most of the auction
house and ebay sales. It recorded the sale of McIntyre you posted when it sold earlier this year.

Attachment 428679

Pat

THANK YOU.... for agreeing with me regarding cardtarget does NOT account for all sales.

There are many private sales (at Shows, Net54 BST, etc., etc.) that they are unaware of.


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  #1137  
Old 12-01-2020, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Pat

THANK YOU.... for agreeing with me regarding cardtarget does NOT account for all sales.

There are many private sales (at Shows, Net54 BST, etc., etc.) that they are unaware of.


TED Z
.
Nothing accounts for all sales but cardtarget covers a large volume of
sales. Without specifying a back a search of a red Cobb provides 2,428
past sales. Many specific cards eventually end up on there I don't know
when you sold or traded the McIntyre t213 but that ended up on there.
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  #1138  
Old 12-01-2020, 03:29 PM
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Here's an odd one with pretty colors....
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  #1139  
Old 12-03-2020, 02:51 PM
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Default Blank Back

I have 4 of these missing color. I like this one the best.
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Old 12-04-2020, 11:00 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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I have 4 of these missing color. I like this one the best.
Hi Adam

Thanks for posting your Matty Mack....cool card. Are the other three that you have also from the 350-only series ?

And, who are the other three ?


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  #1141  
Old 12-04-2020, 11:21 AM
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I believe they are. I will confirm this afternoon, with names.
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Old 12-04-2020, 05:46 PM
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Ted,

They are all 350 series:

Rhoades Hands at Chest
Warhop
Cassidy

Love the missing color aspect.
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Old 12-04-2020, 06:11 PM
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Ted,

They are all 350 series:

Rhoades Hands at Chest
Warhop
Cassidy

Love the missing color aspect.

Adam

Awesome ! Well, that leaves us with a possibility of as many as 186 other such T206's from the 350-only series.

It never ceases to amaze me how this T206 set continues to mystify us.


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  #1144  
Old 12-06-2020, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Adam

Awesome ! Well, that leaves us with a possibility of as many as 186 other such T206's from the 350-only series.

It never ceases to amaze me how this T206 set continues to mystify us.


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There are 75 350 only subjects confirmed with blank backs I have scans
of 35.

http://www.t206resource.com/Blank-Back-Checklist.html
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  #1145  
Old 12-07-2020, 04:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Approximately 10 years ago, I acquired this 1910 COUPON Rossman from Jim Rivera (who was set-up with me at my booth at the Valley Forge Philly Show).

Claude Rossman is one of the tougher cards in the T206 set. Having retired from BB on Sept 3, 1909, American Litho. discontinued printing his cards during
their 350-only series press runs. With respect to this 1910 COUPON card, PSA pop report data indicates only one (Graded a "2"). This specific listing may be
the same Rossman card that was mine (since I sold mine 4 years ago).
Perhaps, Rob McKenzie will chime in here, since his 1910 COUPON set is about 98% complete, and most likely has a Rossman.


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  #1146  
Old 12-07-2020, 04:39 PM
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Ted, I have a PSA 2 Rossman, you may have traded it to me, but it would have been a number of years ago and I have a poor memory. I know Rossman was still on my wantlist when I was down to about 12 cards about 10 years ago.
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File Type: jpg t213-1rossmann825.jpg (48.8 KB, 282 views)
File Type: jpg t213-1rossmannb826.jpg (55.8 KB, 285 views)
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  #1147  
Old 12-08-2020, 12:54 PM
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

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Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
Ted, I have a PSA 2 Rossman, you may have traded it to me, but it would have been a number of years ago and I have a poor memory. I know Rossman was still on my wantlist when I was down to about 12 cards about 10 years ago.

Hi Rob

I traded (or sold) you some 1910 COUPON cards in the past, but not Rossman. It looks like you may have the Rossman listed in the PSA pop report.
I haven't checked out the SGC pop report recently, last time I did there were no Rossman cards listed.

Therefore, it appears that your Rossman and the one I had are the only 2 that are known.


TED Z

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  #1148  
Old 12-08-2020, 03:38 PM
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RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
Rob
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T213-1 Rossman's are difficult to find for sure. SGC updated their pop reports recently, and they show one Rossman, graded SGC 1. There is also a T213-1 Rossman in the Burdick Collection at the MET. I learned just recently that he donated a complete set of T213-1's to the museum.

www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/417940
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Old 12-08-2020, 06:48 PM
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Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Rob

Besides you and Jefferson Burdick, and it is my understanding that one more collector are the only ones which have completed the 1910 COUPON set.
Burdick probably completed his set back in the 1930's - 1940's. It would have been much more easier to do so back then.

I have to commend you for having 67 (of the 68) cards in this set. It certainly is not easy assembling this set 110 years after these cards were issued.

Here's my favorite 1910 COUPON subject......
Ted Breitenstein (St Louis Browns) pitched a "Perfect" game No-Hitter in his very 1st start in 1891. Ted faced exactly 27 batters. Actually, he did Walk
a guy, but a Double-Play followed. Furthermore, at the end of his Major League career (1898), Ted pitched another No-Hitter.







TED Z

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Old 12-09-2020, 11:33 AM
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Thanks, Ted. I think the Fritsch family had or has a set, and a few board members are working on it, or may have completed it raw. I still need to look for Hindu backs so I can make a CHOP back run or two. Here is a T206 Cycle 350 Rhoades that I have. It sort of looks like a Coupon if I look at the back without my glasses. I'm not sure what my favorite subject is, I will think on it.
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File Type: jpg t206rhoadescycleb.jpg (70.3 KB, 262 views)
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Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
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